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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,864
29,747
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
I was watching a documentary about the native American Indians who were cultivating and smoking tobacco 5000 years ago. They showed the types of pipes and the type of leaf they smoked.

Did anyone else know this as I had no idea tobacco was being smoked that long ago.
And it's one of the first plants that shows signs of being intentional cultivated and altered by humans too. Which basically says not only did people probably grow the plant but even back then tried to get the best product they could. Who knows what qualities they wanted to encourage but the fact that they put that much effort into it that long ago says it was very important to them (basically they weren't that different then all of us, just in a different situation).
 
I was watching a documentary about the native American Indians who were cultivating and smoking tobacco 5000 years ago. They showed the types of pipes and the type of leaf they smoked.

Did anyone else know this as I had no idea tobacco was being smoked that long ago.
Another weird thing is that Inuits were smoking pipes for thousands of years as well, travelling not only the farthest reaches of the American Northlands, but all along the artic circle, into Greenland, Northern Russia, etc... So, Caucasians would run into the tribesmen of the North, and we do have some evidence of pipes in Viking and Celtic burials, hundreds of years before Christopher Columbus.
 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
What was the documentary? I bet many here would be interested in watching.
It was on Youtube and I did a search on American Indians I believe. It may also have been part of a documentary called Before 1491. I think it was the latter as it was a series I think. It went into the Aztecs and Myans and their civilizations as well.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,864
29,747
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Another weird thing is that Inuits were smoking pipes for thousands of years as well, travelling not only the farthest reaches of the American Northlands, but all along the artic circle, into Greenland, Northern Russia, etc... So, Caucasians would run into the tribesmen of the North, and we do have some evidence of pipes in Viking and Celtic burials, hundreds of years before Christopher Columbus.
Quick question do these pipes have tobacco residue? Or do you not know. Europeans smoked pipes before they found tobacco. According to records they used them occasionally for medicinal herbs. Not anywhere nearly as wide spread as tobacco smoking became.
 
Quick question do these pipes have tobacco residue? Or do you not know. Europeans smoked pipes before they found tobacco. According to records they used them occasionally for medicinal herbs. Not anywhere nearly as wide spread as tobacco smoking became.
I was just looking for the article that Jay had posted a few years ago about the discovery of tobacco in ancient Viking burial mounds, but I was finding many more articles about Vikings and Celts smoking pot. But, if you think about it, the Inuit tribes followed game all along the artic circle, so they were easily skirting into Greenland and Russian territories. The people who showed the Norweigans how to farm reindeer were also of Inuit ancestry. So, it stands to reason that tobacco could have flowed over into Northern Europe. But, it would have been in very solitary incidences.
 
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Quick question do these pipes have tobacco residue? Or do you not know. Europeans smoked pipes before they found tobacco. According to records they used them occasionally for medicinal herbs. Not anywhere nearly as wide spread as tobacco smoking became.
There was also one of those "World Mystery" type shows on History Channel (I think) I had seen where someone had discovered a carving of an alligator or crocodile in the artic circle. It's hard to believe things you see on History channel these days, but it was very interesting.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,864
29,747
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
I was just looking for the article that Jay had posted a few years ago about the discovery of tobacco in ancient Viking burial mounds, but I was finding many more articles about Vikings and Celts smoking pot. But, if you think about it, the Inuit tribes followed game all along the artic circle, so they were easily skirting into Greenland and Russian territories. The people who showed the Norweigans how to farm reindeer were also of Inuit ancestry. So, it stands to reason that tobacco could have flowed over into Northern Europe. But, it would have been in very solitary incidences.
One of the things I love is how when I was younger we were told that people used to stay where they lived and cultures where mostly isolated from each other. Now they're saying that most people didn't go far but that there was a lot more cross cultural contact on a semi regular basis then previously thought.
And it's not hard to imagine seeing someone smoking tobacco and really wanting to try it and then even if you can't get it regularly still considering a special treat.
 
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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,485
109,631
Probably much longer than that.


If these people were using tobacco, maybe much, much longer.

 
One of the things I love is how when I was younger we were told that people used to stay where they lived and cultures where mostly isolated from each other. Now they're saying that most people didn't go far but that there was a lot more cross cultural contact on a semi regular basis then previously thought.
And it's not hard to imagine seeing someone smoking tobacco and really wanting to try it and then even if you can't get it regularly still considering a special treat.
Agrarian cultures didn't wander too far. But, hunters gatherers had to wander about to chase the game. Hell, the Vikings were the warrior guards of Constantinople, when it was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire. Celts ranged from Africa to the farthest regions of the west and the East, making Irish and well as Russian settlers. The Vikings were also known to take slaves from settlements along the Rhine and Danube, and heard them into Ottoman regions.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,864
29,747
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Agrarian cultures didn't wander too far. But, hunters gatherers had to wander about to chase the game. Hell, the Vikings were the warrior guards of Constantinople, when it was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire. Celts ranged from Africa to the farthest regions of the west and the East, making Irish and well as Russian settlers. The Vikings were also known to take slaves from settlements along the Rhine and Danube, and heard them into Ottoman regions.
And the slave trade was one of the reasons they loved raiding monasteries. A slave who could read and was already accustomed to discipline was very valuable. And according the National Geographic article I read a Rus was a foreigner in Viking terms, but like an expat type of foreigner and that's where the name Russia comes from.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,463
It has always intrigued me that humans traveled into and stayed in overt inclement climates like the arctic. I sort of assume they were shouldered out of milder climates by stronger tribal groups, but had the abilities to adapt that let them prevail where others wouldn't follow and invade. Lots of space and many fewer people. Once you could hunt protein sources like seals and catch fish and make warm clothes.

From what I've read, the plains Indians like the Oglala smoked pipes after the hunt and many other evenings recreationally, not just as a ceremonial practice. It was often a social activity.
 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
Oh, ha ha, sorry Harris, you your OP. Most of us familiar with Pre-Columbian art history aren't surprised that the first Americans, before white man, were smoking tobacco. The whole North and South Americas were smoking it up, long before white men started farming cigars in Cuba.
Oh, ha ha, sorry Harris, you your OP. Most of us familiar with Pre-Columbian art history aren't surprised that the first Americans, before white man, were smoking tobacco. The whole North and South Americas were smoking it up, long before white men started farming cigars in Cuba
Well shit Cos not everyone is an expert on 5000 year old Indians. I thought it was pretty cool.