4 NOGGINS & CANADIANS

[PaulTheScandinavian]

OlkoFri: Thank You for taking time to clarify me this seemingly absurde proccessing,meanwhile here ,when it comes to outside of the EU Region parcels /tobacco containing parcels being even more problematic/ The Addressé would have a notice from Postal Services, (the first and only instance whose workers are sorting incoming outside of EU parcels)noticing the recipient' You've gotten a parcel which likely should be cleared with customs authorities during the following 12 days,You can leave the declaring process to us, fees apply)or do it online, so they keep the very parcel on hold till the moment when Customs gives approval (note,parcels containing tobacco leaf products can not be cleared online)if the addressé chooses to Refuse to pay Import taxes(at least added Sales tax of+24%)then the parcel in question most likely gets confiscated or returned back to the original sender.

 

[dochudson]

The shipping is fast and the manner they send is great as they are well aware of the issues we all face

Explain 'the manner they send' are you broadcasting that they somehow aren't so honest?

 

[autumnfog]

I've made three orders from 4noggins since the store got a new owner and never experienced any problems.

Nicely packed and fairly fast delivery considering I live in Sweden.

 

[ben88]

This thread needs to be closed. Most of the content should have been reserved to private messaging.

 

[mso489]

My compliments and commendations to the stalwart persistence of Canadian pipe smokers.

 

[bluto]

I’m having good luck ordering online . I think the rules are a little unclear , to ones advantage , so like others say , keep the orders small and have at it .
Even with the occasional duty , it’s still a good deal , Borkum riff pouch is 53 dollars in my neck of the woods , sheesh .

 

[sparroa]

I think being discreet is a wise choice but I don't think it is possible any longer to sidestep the fact that Canadian pipe smokers have been forced to find foreign sources of tobacco. It isn't illegal and it isn't harming anybody so I would not give in to fear, but I would exercise caution...
4noggins is still an excellent retailer for all nationalities. That is everything that needs to be said.

 

[bluto]

Nudge nudge
Wink wink

 

[sparroa]

Until everyone is paying $53 for mediocre tobacco, I don't think there will be full understanding of this subject...

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Now you can see how it is that online sellers can end up with their goods returned to them; and you can also see why the postal services are the major losers on this game.

Not quite. What you are missing in all this is that if you refuse the parcel, the parcel is returned to the sender but the sender pays the postal bill for the return service. This is precisely why P&C stopped shipping to Canada - because they were left holding the bag on too many returned shipments. If you order tobacco online, as long as it is properly assessed, you should "man up" and pay the duty, as you knew that was a possible outcome. Anyone can go online and figure out what the correct rate of duty should be for the province in which you reside. If the duty is not correctly assessed, then by all means appeal the assessment, but this is your issue, not that of the seller.

 

[mso489]

peck's take is stern but correct. It's a hard life for Canadian pipe smokers.

 

[olkofri]

What you are missing in all this is that if you refuse the parcel, the parcel is returned to the sender but the sender pays the postal bill for the return service. This is precisely why P&C stopped shipping to Canada - because they were left holding the bag on too many returned shipments.

I stand corrected. Good to know the whole story.

Anyone can go online and figure out what the correct rate of duty should be for the province in which you reside.

Not necessarily. Yes, in theory the duties should make the cost of the imported item equal to the amount one would pay if bought in Canada, but in practice it's been demonstrated that the rates can be whimsically assessed. Again, my MO and what I suggest is to keep the purchases small so that the duties are proportional, and yes, I do agree with being prepared to pay the duties if one is dinged and not crying foul over REASONABLE amounts.
As I stated above and elsewhere, I am NOT against paying duties: I'm opposed to being legally robbed.

 

[sparroa]

What you are missing in all this is that if you refuse the parcel, the parcel is returned to the sender but the sender pays the postal bill for the return service. This is precisely why P&C stopped shipping to Canada - because they were left holding the bag on too many returned shipments.

Yes, that would certainly be enough for a company to withdraw their services altogether.
In my own shipping experience, there is usually an option for the sender to abandon the shipment if it is refused so that is one way for the seller to avoid paying for the return and cutting their losses if the consumer balks. I suppose P&C did not want to go that route and just preferred to avoid the unpleasant hassle of shipping to Canada. Can't blame them...

 

[olkofri]

I wish P&C would at least ship pipes. Pipes and paraphernalia are not subject to extravagant and arbitrary taxation. Every time I've ordered pipes from international sellers, the duties have been quite small or have been waived.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Oilofri, I am not sure what your “Not necessarily” is directed at. You can find the precise duties online. I have also made several posts showing examples of how the duties should be calculated, though sadly those numbers are now out if date. If the CBSA gets it wrong, then you can appeal and demonstrate in your appeal what the right number should be. The correct duty number never seems “reasonable” to me, however. Taxes and reasonableness seldom walk in tandem. I will say that in the vast majority of the cases where duties have been levied in my case, the number was lower than it should have been. In one case it was too high and I appealed it successfully.

 

[olkofri]

Please read the cases I posted above: same amount, essentially same value, and one is levied at ~$34.18 (which I paid) and the next the duty is ~$119, which I didn't pay but sent back for reassessment: only the CBSA decided not to reassess it and sent it back to SPC directly, they didn't even bother to contact me. That's why I said 'not necessarily'.
I've kept my import forms: on one import from SPC, the duty rate is 65.82000, the next form, a month after, has the rate @ 54.52000. Unfortunately, I don't have the one that was too high, because it was returned, but that purchase was made between the two I'm listing: point in fact, the first one was my very first purchase from SPC, and upon placing the second order for the same amount in grams, for a similar cost, I was prepared and willing to pay without complaint a similar amount in duties. Hence my outrage when they wanted to charge me almost four times the tax. What gives? Rates that change as the waves of the sea? That's the 'phenomenon' I was decrying.
Hell, even their 'rate calculator' page states that the calculated amount is only an 'estimate' and that it's up to the officer to determine their final amount. Legalese for 'we can bend you over if we feel like it'.

 

[olkofri]

Now, a bit of an update/correction, because I must be fair, even to people I don't like, and it's quite likely I've been besmirching customs when they actually have no fault for not reassessing:
I was going through my correspondence and trying to remember how it was that the parcel was delivered and it's possible that the Can. BSA didn't even get it for reassessment. It's possible that the mailman just marked it as back to sender directly, as I did not fill out the form or checked the Reassess box. Shoulda asked the mailman to let me see it, and then I probably woulda noticed the Reassessment box and fields, but mailmen normally don't hand you out the parcel till they see the credit card. Anyway, SPC reported that the parcel "came back to us marked Moved/Unknown - Return to Sender". What gives? I opened the door for the guy.
At the time I did not know the full process to do the reassessment. I knew I had to fill out a form, but information about it or a sample of said form is practically unexistent online, and the local post office wasn't very helpful either—some of their employees have no idea about exceptional cases, nor have the patience to suss out the info or help you through.
Verily, there's a dismal paucity of information on these matters everywhere: between the legalese from the official agencies and the hush-hush of boards, one is pretty much left to guess, and many times we guess wrong. That's one reason I decided to describe the whole process above, so that my countrymen know what to expect when they buy leaf from international sellers. Thus, I thank you, Peckingpahhombre for clarifying who foots the postal charges when things are returned.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Not sure what province you are in, but $35 is way too low for 150g so you did well on that one. Depending on the province, and based on current $US/$Cdn approximate exchange rates, you should expect about $30 to $38 per 50 grams, plus the $9.95 processing fee. The number will inevitably vary because the exchange rate also varies (and is not working in our favour at the moment). You are right that in many cases the duty they levy is lower than it should be, because (frankly) the officer often just doesn't know what they are doing. I would also point out that the federal duty is levied per 50g "or part thereof". So if you order a single 2oz tin from C&D, for example, that is 57grams and you will pay the same federal duty as if you had ordered exactly 100g because you have TWO "50gs or part thereof". In other words, it is dangerous to equate a 2oz tin to a 50g tin. Not saying that is what you did; I am just pointing it out.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Basically, what you will have to pay equals the sum of these things - and this is for pipe tobacco, because that is all I know about:
+ the Federal tobacco Duty ($7.45425 per 50 grams or fraction of 50 grams)
+ Provincial tobacco tax (18.475¢ per gram or part gram for pipe tobacco in Ontario; varies by province)
+ the Consumption tax (13% HST in Ontario - calculated as 13% of the TOTAL of the transaction price plus all of the above (ie including the duties above))
So let's assume as an example that you reside in Ontario and order four 2oz tins of Billy Budd at US $9.78 per tin or US$39.12 in total. That's 227 grams and translates to Cdn$51.14 (using today's Canada/US exchange rate - in reality the CBSA will use a monthly average exchange rate).
+ Federal tobacco duty = $7.45425 * 5 = Cdn $ 37.27(note: 227 grams translates to 5 bundles of 50g or part thereof)

+ Ontario tobacco tax - 18.475 * 227 = Cdn$ 41.93

+ Consumption tax = (Cdn$51.14 + Cdn$37.27 + Cdn$41.93) * .13 = Cdn $16.94
= $96.14
plus, they will levy their $9.95 processing fee
Ontario is actually one of the cheaper provinces. For example, the tobacco tax in Alberta is a whopping 37.5 cents per gram - more than twice as high as in Ontario. The Alberta tobacco tax on the order above would be a whopping $85.13 by itself. In Alberta the total duty and GST (7%) duty on the order above would be a staggerring Cdn$139.53 as compared to the number of $96.14 for someone in Ontario.

 

[woodsroad]

So....have any Canadians here ever had their car searched while returning from the US? Not that any of you would intentionally skirt these very reasonable and rational fees.