question regarding 4 noggins-how have the new owner's shipping been duty wise- as well marked & shipped as rich's ??
4 NOGGINS & CANADIANS
- Thread starter smokertruck
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how has your duty been guys - i was dinged a few times - reasonable & not so reasonable.
wound up 50$ / 50g tin. ouch
wound up 50$ / 50g tin. ouch
Never dinged when buying from them, but I keep my orders small (less than 150 g). With SPC, on the other hand, I get dinged every time, hence I don't buy toby from them anymore.
If I get dinged and the amount is reasonable, I pay it; if not, I send it back: I'd rather flush the money down the toilet than give it to Truedope's minions.
If I get dinged and the amount is reasonable, I pay it; if not, I send it back: I'd rather flush the money down the toilet than give it to Truedope's minions.
From what I've heard, nothing has changed at 4noggins except the ownership.
Either way, it is Customs that you have to worry about since they are the ones selectively enforcing the regulations. They have no accountability and the amount you are charged will depend upon the individual who writes up the form. I believe there is also a $10 minimum processing fee, no matter what.
My advice is to have money put aside for the taxes and duties before you order tobacco across international borders. It is best to be prepared for the tax man and celebrate if you manage to avoid extra charges than to be caught off guard about the amount owing.
It definitely pays to keep orders small to minimize the charges but there are no guarantees.
Either way, it is Customs that you have to worry about since they are the ones selectively enforcing the regulations. They have no accountability and the amount you are charged will depend upon the individual who writes up the form. I believe there is also a $10 minimum processing fee, no matter what.
My advice is to have money put aside for the taxes and duties before you order tobacco across international borders. It is best to be prepared for the tax man and celebrate if you manage to avoid extra charges than to be caught off guard about the amount owing.
It definitely pays to keep orders small to minimize the charges but there are no guarantees.
If you can afford to order the tobacco make sure you can afford to pay any duties for it. Sending it back due to duties is not acceptable and will only hurt everyone else that buys from Canada when the retailers decide not to put up with the hassle of cross border shipping. There are reasons that some do not ship to Canada.
As for discussing this type of content on an open forum, ask yourself, do I really know who is reading this?
As for discussing this type of content on an open forum, ask yourself, do I really know who is reading this?
Do note that 4noggins won't refund you if you choose to send it back. You actually have to click a box to accept their policy. I'd still send it back if the duties are outrageous: as I said before, I'd rather lose the money than to send a message to customs that they can ravage and pillage me whenever they want.
SPC will refund you the amount you pay for the toby, but they won't refund the shipping. Fair and square, I think, since they get back the unopened tins which they can resell as new (which they are). The ones who really lose are the postal services.
Pipes & Cigars don't ship to Canada, methinks due to a high number of returns due to BS duties. I wish they reconsider and adopted a policy like 4noggins': "if you return it we won't refund you a dime"; as I said, if the duties are reasonable, I'm not opposed to paying them. I once ordered 150 gr from SPC and got dinged with about $35 CAD: I paid them. Next time, for the same amount, they wanted to charge me about $119 CAD in duties: I sent it back.
SPC will refund you the amount you pay for the toby, but they won't refund the shipping. Fair and square, I think, since they get back the unopened tins which they can resell as new (which they are). The ones who really lose are the postal services.
Pipes & Cigars don't ship to Canada, methinks due to a high number of returns due to BS duties. I wish they reconsider and adopted a policy like 4noggins': "if you return it we won't refund you a dime"; as I said, if the duties are reasonable, I'm not opposed to paying them. I once ordered 150 gr from SPC and got dinged with about $35 CAD: I paid them. Next time, for the same amount, they wanted to charge me about $119 CAD in duties: I sent it back.
Actually, that's what I did that one time. Sorry about not being totally clear. But the CBSA either didn't have the time or the inclination to reassess it and they sent it back to the seller. I learnt about the outcome when SPC's customer service E-mailed me about the refund: I explained to them how the whole thing had occurred and they told me that it wasn't uncommon.
usually order up to 200g but the govt charge has been all over the board - just wanted to know what was happening with other canadians.
dont expect usa retailers to contravene export laws -
dont expect usa retailers to contravene export laws -
No worries, smokertruck.
FWIW, I think it is entirely fair for companies to adopt a no refund policy when everyone knows the stakes beforehand. That is being completely transparent and above board.
As for refusing parcels, I think that should be saved as a last resort in case the assessment is completely unreasonable and beyond one's ability to pay but that can mostly be avoided by staying small and budgeting in advance.
FWIW, I think it is entirely fair for companies to adopt a no refund policy when everyone knows the stakes beforehand. That is being completely transparent and above board.
As for refusing parcels, I think that should be saved as a last resort in case the assessment is completely unreasonable and beyond one's ability to pay but that can mostly be avoided by staying small and budgeting in advance.
Speaking about it as openly as this doesn't make the cause easier.... It's extraoridinarily foolish to speak about it so openly that you may as well just email customs directly and ask them what method of shipping they are less likely to intercept. Let's start a thread in Bold text, and use a retailers name and country in question.... Geez!
Just about every Cigar forum has banned any discussions about shipping / duty / import taxes for 2 decades.
Just about every Cigar forum has banned any discussions about shipping / duty / import taxes for 2 decades.
Frankly, there are threads about this all over the internet for at least ten years now. I think the powers that be have other priorities. They might crack down on small quantities of pipe tobacco for personal consumption some day, but so far they have bigger fish to fry.
There isn't much point in being paranoid about it since they aren't destroying intercepted packages, just charging duties and sending them to their destination. It's not that big of a deal at the present time. Things might change down the road but everyone will just have to adapt accordingly.
There isn't much point in being paranoid about it since they aren't destroying intercepted packages, just charging duties and sending them to their destination. It's not that big of a deal at the present time. Things might change down the road but everyone will just have to adapt accordingly.
Now will plain packaging cause an issue with the importer responsible for that? I’m thinking no, but then again...
OlkoFri:Can't help asking how could You send 'em back to retailer if your goods are laying at postal dispatch center? Simply requesting to turn them back?Either way, here I suspect customs would not give give the addreseé a chance to Pay Duties but simply do confiscate the whole stuff If theres evidence that the seller is registred business owner since ordering tobacco containing products from a business seller is forbidden,nontheless I have reason to believe this practice may be subject to change in short while.You see Governement needs additional funds in form of Taxes.
Paulie, the process is as follows:
4. Can. BSA assessment:
- 1. Buyer orders items online.
- 2. Seller packages items and prints declaration of contents and total value in USD on label.
- 3. Seller dispatches parcel.
- 4. Upon arriving in Canada the parcel is held by Can. BSA and assessed (even opened, though not always the case).
- 5. Based on contents and total value in CAD, customs determines how much duties are for said parcel, plus processing fee, prints invoice and sticks it on the parcel, then releases the parcel.
- 6. The post delivers the parcel to buyer.
- 7. Buyer pays the duties upon delivery to the mailman.
4. Can. BSA assessment:
- a)The Can. BSA lets the parcel go through without charging anything. Maybe its value is too low to bother taxing it, maybe the officer was drowsy, &c., &c.
- Customs gets greedy or supercilious upon seeing 'tobacco' printed loud and clear on the label, and/or because the parcel is large/high in value, or a combo of these and/or other variables: they assess killer duties.
Paulie, the process is as follows:
4. & 5. Can. BSA assessment:
Now you can see how it is that online sellers can end up with their goods returned to them; and you can also see why the postal services are the major losers on this game.
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**Sorry for the double post, but had to do several edits to organise it properly and the thing timed out.
- 1. Buyer orders items online.
- 2. Seller packages items and prints declaration of contents and total value in USD on label.
- 3. Seller dispatches parcel.
- 4. Upon arriving in Canada the parcel is held by Can. BSA and assessed (even opened, though not always the case).
- 5. Based on contents and total value in CAD, customs determines how much duties are for said parcel, plus processing fee, prints invoice and sticks it on the parcel, then releases the parcel.
- 6. The post delivers the parcel to buyer.
- 7. Buyer pays the duties to the mailman at time of delivery.
4. & 5. Can. BSA assessment:
- a) The Can. BSA lets the parcel go through without charging anything. Maybe its value is too low to bother taxing it, maybe the officer was drowsy, &c., &c.
- b) Customs gets greedy or supercilious upon seeing 'tobacco' printed loud and clear on the label, and/or because the parcel is large/high in value, or a combo of these and/or other variables: they assess killer duties.
- a) He refuses payment and checks the 'Return to the Can. BSA: Appeal' box on the duties invoice. The parcel goes back, NOT to the seller, but to the customs agency's office to be reassessed (which can take many weeks). Four things can then happen:
- i. The 'Oops! Sorry' option: Can. BSA reassesses the parcel charging less duties. Parcel goes back to the buyer via the post. Process repeats again: he can pay the duties or refuse.
- ii. The 'Serves you right for PO'ing us off!' option: Customs reassesses the parcel charging an even greater duty than the first time. Parcel goes back to the buyer via the post. Process repeats again: he can pay the duties or refuse.
- iii. The 'Say what?' option: Customs stands by their original assessment and sends the parcel to buyer stating that it was correct the first time. Buyer can pay or refuse payment.
- iv. The 'To hell with it' option: Customs chooses not to bother playing the game anymore: doesn't reassess anything and doesn't try to get payment a second time: they return the parcel to the sender and that's The End.
- b) Buyer pays the duties and keeps the goods, but still asks for reassessment: he fills out a form and sends it to the Can. BSA. Two things can happen:
- i. Customs accepts the duty was unfair, reassesses a lower value and issues a refund (if you ask me: this option is highly, highly, highly unlikely).
- ii. Customs stands by its assessment and keeps the cash.
Now you can see how it is that online sellers can end up with their goods returned to them; and you can also see why the postal services are the major losers on this game.
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**Sorry for the double post, but had to do several edits to organise it properly and the thing timed out.
I happily order from 4noggins ... The shipping is fast and the manner they send is great as they are well aware of the issues we all face . Now me as the buyer, I fully accept I may get asked to pay duties (which I never will) and as I am aware of the risks who should I return a product if I get asked ... And for every 1 that gets stopped 10 go through without duty, so no matter what I still come out ahead. Sofar in my experience they have been a great company to deal with ...maybe it's just the way the post operates in my country though that makes it easier to slip through
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