1500 dollar Savinelli 320
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And the very essence of aesthetics are subjective... but anyways, I don't want to derail the thread. I was just curious as to whether it was a committee consensus for the standards at that Kansas City show.
In the sense that if everyone alive on Planet Earth was given a vote on which car, girl, painting, sculpture, pipe, or etc. was the best out out of 50 specimens, ALL the entries would receive at least a few votes, yes.
But that's not how it is at all for specialized objects and sophisticated audiences.
Take ten (or 20 or 100) long-time, passionate, fully invested & informed collector-maker-etc. type pipe people and task them with choosing some number of 50 specimens as the best examples, and there will be astonishingly little disagreement. Every time. Guaranteed.
It's a well understood concept, especially in the luxury goods market, that exclusivity has value. Is the Coach bag really better than a knock off that requires an expert to identify as fake? Certainly not enough to justify the price difference so Cosmic is right. There isn't necessarily a relation between price and quality. But exclusivity is the game changer. When a item is in short supply, real or artificial, it automatically becomes more valuable. The buyer doesn't have any alternative but to pay or go without. That coupled with George's suggestion that there might just be a specific group of buyers being targeted seems likely. If you look at this pipe from a "is it worth it" perspective, consensus is it isn't. If on the other hand it's viewed from the "I have something few others do" it might just be. For that kind of buyer it's not about the item, it's about membership in an exclusive group. The props simply validate image of successful and therefore important.
I would be interested to hear a smokingpipes.com take on the pipe. I am not going to argue on behalf of this pipe at all, as the pipe is not in any genre that I am interested in. An author shape?
On art, I could argue all day that the 80's was the demise of the gallery scene and any "expert opinions" on pricing is clearly bunk these days, especially in the gallery market. Secondary market such as auctions are different.
But, on this pipe, it's a different story, as this is an estate. I'd be curious as to whether there might be a particular market they are targeting, beside your average collector.
On the perfect shape, whether it's a billiard or author or bulldog, the arguments just get muddy. At my hang out, The Briary, we get to talk with guys who don't see $1500 as being much more than chump change for a hobby all the time. Skip keeps high ends moving all day every day, but when folks start getting down to "perfection" of the shape or the grain... it just gets muddy. In fact, I've seen more deviations get more money than perfection. But, I also just don't "get" the whole perfection of the shape thing, as I am just not attracted to the most normal or most perfect shapes of pipes. I rarely have seen someone dole out as much money for a perfect Billard as a wonky looking Danish horn or offset blowfish.
Eh, but my agreeance with the accessement of this pipe's value is not that it's not perfect enough for the money, but that it's not unusual enough. It just seems too... ordinary.
On art, I could argue all day that the 80's was the demise of the gallery scene and any "expert opinions" on pricing is clearly bunk these days, especially in the gallery market. Secondary market such as auctions are different.
But, on this pipe, it's a different story, as this is an estate. I'd be curious as to whether there might be a particular market they are targeting, beside your average collector.
On the perfect shape, whether it's a billiard or author or bulldog, the arguments just get muddy. At my hang out, The Briary, we get to talk with guys who don't see $1500 as being much more than chump change for a hobby all the time. Skip keeps high ends moving all day every day, but when folks start getting down to "perfection" of the shape or the grain... it just gets muddy. In fact, I've seen more deviations get more money than perfection. But, I also just don't "get" the whole perfection of the shape thing, as I am just not attracted to the most normal or most perfect shapes of pipes. I rarely have seen someone dole out as much money for a perfect Billard as a wonky looking Danish horn or offset blowfish.
Eh, but my agreeance with the accessement of this pipe's value is not that it's not perfect enough for the money, but that it's not unusual enough. It just seems too... ordinary.
In my experience conspicuous consumption types buy what they do only because advertising their net worth by tattooing it on their foreheads is considered Too Much even by their standards. If that ever changes, though, buy all the ink company stock you can. :lol:
I thank the good lord every evening for conspicuous rich people. Ha ha. Especially the ones who like opals. :
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You are trying to conflate the "approach to perfection" with price.
While pipes above a certain price point must be technically good to be taken seriously by knowledgeable collectors, that's about the only connection.
For example, take a $20K Sixten Ivarsson, undetectably re-stamp it to read "Quincy Smithers" (with no other changes whatsoever), and you'd have trouble selling it for $250.
No, Georged, I was also making the argument that perfection and creativity do not correlate with price. I only made my statement in regards to your conflation that it wouldn't have passed the KC Carving show, thus... just saying.
As far as serious collectors and what they want... ha ha, I guess discussing pipes with them on a regular basis doesn't give me any insite at all, ha ha. Unless we want to start playing the "my serious art collector friends are better than yours" game. In that case, I would just have to bow out, ha ha.
As far as serious collectors and what they want... ha ha, I guess discussing pipes with them on a regular basis doesn't give me any insite at all, ha ha. Unless we want to start playing the "my serious art collector friends are better than yours" game. In that case, I would just have to bow out, ha ha.
In the marketing/product sense, or the technical/execution one?
They have a dog in both hunts.
The marketing one is pretty straightforward. Savinelli is trying to get the attention of the big money collector guys these days.
I imagine any technical/execution commentary would be subordinate to business interests (for obvious reasons), with lots of emphasis on boldness, chunky visual concepts, masculinity, and so forth. :wink:
A more interesting question would be to ask Adam Davidson---an outstanding American pipe maker who is a buyer/QA guy at Smokingpipes.com when not producing his own stuff---if he would put HIS name on it. My guess? Highly unlikely.
I see nothing exceptional about the pipe in question that I would even pay $148.50 for it let alone $1480.00. As Georged has tried to illustrate, the shape lacks any fluidity and artful balance of a truly masterful pipe, the grain of the briar is totally without appeal to me and not even the stain does anything to highlight it. I don't see anything exceptional about the pipe at all.
Why is it posted for $1480? Because likely someone out there will pay that for it so he can say he has a 3-star Savinelli, and that he paid $1480.00 for it.
PS: Fitzy, I'll give you 50 bucks for that orange-haired little girl! ::
Why is it posted for $1480? Because likely someone out there will pay that for it so he can say he has a 3-star Savinelli, and that he paid $1480.00 for it.
PS: Fitzy, I'll give you 50 bucks for that orange-haired little girl! :
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I have found the 320 shape is not very photogenic anyway. I never truly appreciated it until I actually had one in hand. It really is a lovely shape. I absolutely love mine. But as far as the price of the one in this thread? I personally think it's kind of ridiculous. Which is why I posted it in the first place. It likely truly is a very nice pipe to behold in person. But I simply cannot wrap my mind around how a factory made pipe... Dunhill, Savinelli, Peterson, Whateverson... can fetch such a steep dollar amount.
I love the savinelli brand nothing but good things to say. The g d o line makes me pause I'm not sure what they did to acquire the blocks but they sure are proud of them in an unrealistic way.
Regarding art and prices commanded it reminds me of the guy 60 minutes did a story on years ago. He set out to show in his own weird way the nonsense that can take over. He suspended a basketball in a fish aquarium in clear poly and sold it for 5 million.
Regarding art and prices commanded it reminds me of the guy 60 minutes did a story on years ago. He set out to show in his own weird way the nonsense that can take over. He suspended a basketball in a fish aquarium in clear poly and sold it for 5 million.
I can't comment on the smoking qualities of the current GDO crop, but the stem & buttons on my older versions are magnificent and rival a great Comoys stem.
Well that was somewhat unexpected. I mean, I imagined it would sell, but I thought it might be there a bit longer.
Yeh, I was wondering if they may have had someone in specific in mind when they posted it. Maybe someone that lacked this one particular pipe to finish out a line. But, Savinelli doesn't mark a year or anything. This one has a story I'd love to hear.
Or else Peck saw the thread and pulled the trigger just to teach us a lesson, ha ha
Or else Peck saw the thread and pulled the trigger just to teach us a lesson, ha ha
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