Tobacco Sources?
- Thread starter SpuddsBuckley
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I wonder if we would even have oriental leaf if it weren't for R. J. Reynolds and Camel...
Also part of why I hate seeing pipe smokers dog cigarette smokers. Never mind I also smoke cigarettes... but if it weren't for the cigarette industry, it's doubtful we'd even have a pipe tobacco market, much less the amount of choice we have now.
If they succeeded in eliminating cigarettes, if the pipe tobacco industry survived, I can't imagine how expensive pipe tobacco would be.
We're basically just hitching a ride with them (the cigarette industry) because they're headed the same general direction.
Well Latakia starts out as an oriental leaf before the firing process so I imagine there was that.
I think we are also hitching a ride with the Chew and Snuff industry (think Copenhagen not that stuff that goes up your nose)
All that stuff is mostly Dark Fired Kentucky so that keeps that alive not to mention most Perique actually goes to those American Spirit cigarettes and thats all produced in a tiny place.
Maybe but from my understanding, which is very superficial they get an allotment to grow a certain amount of their total acreage. Hell who knows by now they are probably all growing weed.
Here is an answer I found on the web straight from the horses mouth about the relationship on the manufacture of those blends.
"Here's the straight dope:
All H&H was originally blended by me, but tinned by C&D. When the volume got to be too large, we had to farm out manufacturing. C&D couldn't source a lot of the tobaccos I used, but Sutliff was willing to, so we moved manufacturing to them. Lane now makes some because they were also willing to use the tobaccos that I do, and since we're now "family", we were asked to move some of the manufacturing to them. Sutliff still makes a number of the blends, including the ones that are pressed, because Lane doesn't have the equipment. Some of the RO Series blends are made by Daughters & Ryan, because Mark has unique tobaccos not available elsewhere. It may seem complicated, but this is the best way to make sure that the integrity of the blends is properly maintained."
Russ
Yep. This is a pretty old statement, since Russ is referring to the RO Perique Series that he made with Mark Ryan. Sutliff's willingness to find the tobaccos that particular blenders wanted to use is why SPC had their blends manufactured by Sutliff.
Also, If the OP listens to the Leonard Wortzel interviews there's a bit about the difficulties and expense of accurately duplicating a blend at a different factory, with different source tobaccos, which is why only mass market winners are being retained, at least for now.
My takeaway from all of this is ... we basically don't know where the hell any of the tobacco in any blend comes from, regardless of who puts their name on the tin.
That about sums it up.My takeaway from all of this is ... we basically don't know where the hell any of the tobacco in any blend comes from, regardless of who puts their name on the tin.
What I get from it that its more of an incestuous relationship than we believed. Were so used to brand X vs brand Y mentality but often to get something realized they may have to work together.My takeaway from all of this is ... we basically don't know where the hell any of the tobacco in any blend comes from, regardless of who puts their name on the tin.
There are only a handful of manufacturers of pipe tobacco left. All of those different brand names are IP's that were once separate manufacturers who were bought by corporations.My takeaway from all of this is ... we basically don't know where the hell any of the tobacco in any blend comes from, regardless of who puts their name on the tin.
There's nothing new about consolidation. Cope's Escudo was bought by Gallaher's in 1953, various Codger blends have gone through a series of ownerships, Sutliff ceased being an independent company in 1969 (IIRC), etc, etc. The difference is the speed and extent of consolidation.
Tying tobaccos sources to a brand name has never been a "thing". And these days manufacturers are less able to maintain consistent and reliable sources than even a few years ago.
The "name" has always been about the manufacturer and sometimes the blender, never about a specific grower, with the possible exception of Perique, and I'm not sure that's still the case, at least in the pipe tobacco consumer marketplace.
With perique, I'm not so sure it is 100% about the farmer either. Mark has mentioned buying tobaccos from other places to meet the demands. And, if you look at the small plot of land across the street from La Poche, along the banks of the river, that couldn't possibly bee the entirety of the La Poche perique tobacco. It is more about where it is processed, but I'm sure that the tobacco processed is also important, but just not entirely exclusive.
Interesting. In all of the conversations I'd have with Mark I got that he bought from growers. I never got the impression that he himself was a grower.
Another thing to consider when getting to the source of the leaf used in a blend is that certain chemicals and pesticides that are still allowed in the U.S. are banned broadly around the world/most of Europe. I know none of us are smoking pipes for the health benefits, but I'd like to think that some level of risk mitigation (smoking tobacco laced with poison vs not) would be prudent. A little more transparency in the industry would be nice. But that seems like a pipe dream, pun intended.
Your original statement that I was responding to, you had said that perique was likely still about the specific grower. I was just saying that beyond that plot of land across the street from LaPoche (whether Mark owns it, leases it, or whatever) was not the sole source for the LaPoche Tobacco. The land used there is connected to the farm, but I don't have access to the deeds nor any contracts. I was just amending what you said to align with what I also have heard Mark say, about buying tobaccos from other places. But, even if the land at La Poche is all Marks, he could be paying other farmers to work it, as he doesn't live at that farm.
Anyways, ultimately, it is safer to just assume that tobacco blends in general, as you have said, are not tied to the farmers.
But, small batches are a different story, because no one is forcing themselves to keep a small batch going beyond the sale of that specific crop. Once it's gone, it's gone. It's when a company tries to keep Escudo, or Capstan, or some other iconic blend going beyond the scope of what a company can continue to source that causes problems.
Nicotine is the poison, ha ha. They put poison on my poison!! damn them!!!
I'm not convinced that pesticides remain on the leaf after processing. But, the only way to be 100% certain is to grow your own. I never sprayed any pesticides on my tobacco, but I did have to go out everyday and pick tobacco worms off the plants, which is way out of the scope of what a larger tobacco farmer could possibly do.
Nicotine is a vitamin. In fact, my doctor told me I have a nicotine deficiency and prescribed me Peterson's Royal Yacht. #FollowTheScience