Rose Geranium

[boston]

Elf dandruff, by EQ at Watch City has the botanical composition talked about in this thread. It's not like Ennerdale. It's complex. And floral to be sure. A boutique blend for contemplative plant and scent scientists who want to experience boutique tobacco blending.

Recommended.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

ALL of the Lakeland flavors are ingredients from the chemical perfume industry. Rose Geranium specifically smells like the little pink rose shaped soaps they sold in Dollar Stores in the 1950's. It is a fake rose smell. Specifically not a real rose smell. But, in essence all Lakelands are from some sort of old fashioned women's perfumes.

Not. Rose Geranium has been used in cooking for centuries. They also use Tonka beans, or the synthetic substitute, which was first used in food before they were used in perfumes. Some sort of A!mond essence is used in Ennerdale, for one, again a common food ingredient.
According to the research done by a poster in another forum, at some point in the 19th century, sugar, molasses, etc. were subject to very high tariffs in the UK. Rose Geranium could be used in casing raw leaf as a less expensive substitute sweetener. The market seemed to accept it, so why change?

Grasmere was lemongrass, right?

Don't mean to pick on you, but Grousemoor by Samuel Gawith is said to be lemongrass. Could well be lemon Pledge to me. Grasmere probably has a second helping of RG.

 

[mingc]

According to the research done by a poster in another forum, at some point in the 19th century, sugar, molasses, etc. were subject to very high tariffs in the UK.

The tariffs for American sugar and molasses may have been high. But the Brits had their own sugar colonies back then. Sugar was one of the commodities that drove the Atlantic slave trade. Jamaica, Trinidad, then British Guiana, etc. were planted with sugar cane. Demerara sugar is named for a place in British Guyana. I don't think the Brits would have imposed too much of a tax on the products of their own colonies.

 

[karam]

Not. Rose Geranium has been used in cooking for centuries. They also use Tonka beans, or the synthetic substitute, which was first used in food before they were used in perfumes. Some sort of A!mond essence is used in Ennerdale, for one, again a common food ingredient.

Bold: still is, in Greece

After smoking 1792 I bought tonka beans and make a few creamy deserts, these beans are magical!

 

[Franco Pipenbeans]

Bold: still is, in Greece

After smoking 1792 I bought tonka beans and make a few creamy deserts, these beans are magical!

How do they use it to flavour tobacco though - grind some up and add it to the leaf or make it into a tincture and pour on the tonquin bean?

The only reason I ask is that Wilson’s of Sharrow near me sell the bean and it’s the only place I know that does (maybe supermarkets do but I’ve not been looking).

On their website it says that simply adding a bean to a container with tobacco is enough to add the essence of the bean - that seems like some strong stuff!

Tonquin Beans 50g bag (Tonga, Tonka) Hedges from £4.96 - Wilsons & Co

Buy Tonquin Beans 50g bag (Tonga, Tonka) from £4.96 - Wilsons & Co

sharrowmills.com

 

[karam]

How do they use it to flavour tobacco though - grind some up and add it to the leaf or make it into a tincture and pour on the tonquin bean?

The only reason I ask is that Wilson’s of Sharrow near me sell the bean and it’s the only place I know that does (maybe supermarkets do but I’ve not been looking).

On their website it says that simply adding a bean to a container with tobacco is enough to add the essence of the bean - that seems like some strong stuff!

Tonquin Beans 50g bag (Tonga, Tonka) Hedges from £4.96 - Wilsons & Co

Buy Tonquin Beans 50g bag (Tonga, Tonka) from £4.96 - Wilsons & Co

sharrowmills.com

I can't recall 100%, but a person in the tobacco growing forum steeped ground tonka beans in alcohol, filtered out the solids and used that as a spray on tobacco.

I'd imagine adding a bean to a tobacco tin won't do a lot to be honest.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

You can get just about all of these oils from amazon. They are all still used in the fragrance industry. I purchased several a few years back, especially when we were discussing the Juicy Fruit flavor of Erinmoore and rose geranium, which smells like roses. However, if anyone wants to try their hand at blending with them, keep in mind that a little goes a Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way. And, it makes perfect sense to me why absolutely everything that comes out of the GH&co factory has this taste. It gets into everything. Once you play with these a little, you'll see why the unscented stuff is scented. Whomever the poor sucker is that is blending for them has burned out his olfactory senses. One drop of rose geranium in your house and you'll have it in your clothes, your foods, everything. You'll not smell a damned thing, but everyone you come intop contact with will think that you bathe in your grandma's rose soaps.

 

[jpberg]

Are you guys just saying anything with a lakeland taste is rose geranium? Or, do you even know what rose geranium tastes like?

That’s the 64 dollar question. Glynn Quelch had GH do a run of tobacco for GQ Tobacco to sell in house. One was RG Plug, which was Dark Plug with Rose and Geranium top note/coating/essence/whatever.
Im no super taster, but the tobacco both smelled and tasted like roses. And Geraniums.
There’s nothing similar to RG Plug in the GH lineup.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

About eight years ago, I ordered some GH&co Kendal Flake, and it smelled just like roses. It was weird, because everyone was saying that it barely had any flavoring added, but I remember the whole house smelled like it. Now, on tobacco reviews, I don't see anyone saying anything about roses. This would be what I deem GH&co biggest problem, inconsistency. If they are willy nilly changing recipes between batches, how the fuck can we suggest something to someone.
I have been smoking Dark Flake unscented for years, and each time I get it, it's a totally different tobacco. Maybe a few batches did have that rose scent, and I just didn't get any of that batch. But things like "floral" and "Lakeland essence" doesn't translate into rose geranium for me. If the reviewer doesn't specifically say "roses" then I know that the main topping is not rose geranium.

 

[jpberg]

I can't recall 100%, but a person in the tobacco growing forum steeped ground tonka beans in alcohol, filtered out the solids and used that as a spray on tobacco.

I'd imagine adding a bean to a tobacco tin won't do a lot to be honest.

And old pal in the UK turned me on to putting a couple beans in my Special Latakia Flake tin. It really adds some flavor.

 

[condorlover1]

Do you actually smoke the bean or just leave it in the tobacco to impart the flavor?

 

[TheIronMonkey]

As a biochemist with a stint in a chemistry lab, I agree.
Hipsters and vegetarians make a fuss about “chemicals” and they miss that we are all chemicals.
@cosmicfolklore I never smelled pure geranium oil, and perception of flavours can be different so you may well be right. It’s also a big plant family so maybe something smells like roses. I hate the rose oil smell, I find it VERY heavy, cloying and disgusting. But I’d put my peepee in a fire that DFS is scented with that plant that if I google the Greek name of it I get results for Pelargonium, the plant which grew and still grows in my mother’s balcony, and always has a leaf thrown in a pot making jam etc.

Fun fact, Greeks claim that other than flavouring sweets Pelargonium is good for warding off mosquitoes. Eucalyptus trees too though that’s likely because they dry the soil around them.

LOL @ But I’d put my peepee in a fire

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

As a biochemist with a stint in a chemistry lab, I agree.
Hipsters and vegetarians make a fuss about “chemicals” and they miss that we are all chemicals.
@cosmicfolklore I never smelled pure geranium oil, and perception of flavours can be different so you may well be right. It’s also a big plant family so maybe something smells like roses. I hate the rose oil smell, I find it VERY heavy, cloying and disgusting. But I’d put my peepee in a fire that DFS is scented with that plant that if I google the Greek name of it I get results for Pelargonium, the plant which grew and still grows in my mother’s balcony, and always has a leaf thrown in a pot making jam etc.

Fun fact, Greeks claim that other than flavouring sweets Pelargonium is good for warding off mosquitoes. Eucalyptus trees too though that’s likely because they dry the soil around them.

And it may be the "distilled" oil is so concentrated compared to the plant, it over powers some of the more nuanced odors/smells...

 

[Franco Pipenbeans]

Do you actually smoke the bean or just leave it in the tobacco to impart the flavor?

 

[Franco Pipenbeans]

That’s what the Wilson’s of Sharrow website says - pop one in the tin to add the flavour. @karam is suggesting that it might need something more to impart the flavour.

Annoyingly, Wilson’s is a ten minute walk from my house, on Snuff Mill Lane but they only have an online shop, no B&M so to speak so I have to pay for postage even though it is so close.

 

[Franco Pipenbeans]

You can get just about all of these oils from amazon. They are all still used in the fragrance industry. I purchased several a few years back, especially when we were discussing the Juicy Fruit flavor of Erinmoore and rose geranium, which smells like roses. However, if anyone wants to try their hand at blending with them, keep in mind that a little goes a Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way. And, it makes perfect sense to me why absolutely everything that comes out of the GH&co factory has this taste. It gets into everything. Once you play with these a little, you'll see why the unscented stuff is scented. Whomever the poor sucker is that is blending for them has burned out his olfactory senses. One drop of rose geranium in your house and you'll have it in your clothes, your foods, everything. You'll not smell a damned thing, but everyone you come intop contact with will think that you bathe in your grandma's rose soaps.
View attachment 129126View attachment 129128View attachment 129129

One thing this thread has encouraged me to do is to order some rose geranium seeds to grow and see what it actually smells like and see if I can get the same from the tobacco.

On the Ennerdale point - it reminds me strongly of the red raspberry syrup that ice cream vans have to put on ice cream in Britain. I don’t know if you have something similar in the States so Americans might not have a clue what I am on about but that is the smell I get from it, rather than almonds, cream and the other things that people have said it smells like.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

One thing this thread has encouraged me to do is to order some rose geranium seeds to grow and see what it actually smells like and see if I can get the same from the tobacco.

On the Ennerdale point - it reminds me strongly of the red raspberry syrup that ice cream vans have to put on ice cream in Britain. I don’t know if you have something similar in the States so Americans might not have a clue what I am on about but that is the smell I get from it, rather than almonds, cream and the other things that people have said it smells like.

You can actually just order rose geranium extract. It would be a lot easier than trying to propagate some seeds and waiting a few months to see what the plant smells like. Geraniums smell horrible to begin with.

https://www.amazon.com/Rose-Geranium-Large-ounce-Essential/dp/B00SI5BLAC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3QK2BA5REDCVO&keywords=rose+geranium+oil&qid=1645113023&sprefix=rose+geranium+oil%2Caps%2C75&sr=8-5

 

[Ahi Ka]

@mingc i didn’t think grouse was lemongrass either until I mixed some dried lemon grass from the garden in with some VA cavendish. There was enough Grousemoor similarities to convince me.

the stuff I’ve tried from 2012 is still sopping wet and tastes like apricot jam. Some of the newer stuff is delicious in a different way, very tobacco forward and an all day smoke. I’m assuming this is what @PipeIT has. To me they are different enough to be considered different blends.

 

[mingc]

@mingc i didn’t think grouse was lemongrass either until I mixed some dried lemon grass from the garden in with some VA cavendish. There was enough Grousemoor similarities to convince me.

That's very interesting. Your homegrown lemongrass would have been presumably relatively fresh and strong too. I love the old world charm of the Kendal tobaccos.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

The tariffs for American sugar and molasses may have been high. But the Brits had their own sugar colonies back then. Sugar was one of the commodities that drove the Atlantic slave trade. Jamaica, Trinidad, then British Guiana, etc. were planted with sugar cane. Demerara sugar is named for a place in British Guyana. I don't think the Brits would have imposed too much of a tax on the products of their own colonies.

See the Sugar Duties Act of 1846.
“The passage of this act saw the equalization of duties on foreign and British West Indian sugar imported into Britain. Combined with the effects of abolition and emancipation, the sugar industry in the British West Indies went into a period of decline.”