Blend Equivalents Sticky?

[ofafeather]

Could we possibly have a sticky thread with blend “equivalents” under different brands?

Example:
Peterson University Flake - Rattray Wallace Flake

There are so many now that I feel like it would be great to have them in one, easy to find place. It’s not really intended to include “match” blends but could included tinned blends that are sold as a different brand and blend in bulk.

 

[stokesdale]

Could we possibly have a sticky thread with blend “equivalents” under different brands?

Example:
Peterson University Flake - Rattray Wallace Flake

There are so many now that I feel like it would be great to have them in one, easy to find place. It’s not really intended to include “match” blends but could included tinned blends that are sold as a different brand and blend in bulk.

I agree to some extent, but an "equivalents" blend thread, I think would get quickly out of hand and ultimately become useless and bogged down. But why not match blends? Do we already have a match blends thread?

 

[ofafeather]

I agree to some extent, but an "equivalents" blend thread, I think would get quickly out of hand and ultimately become useless and bogged down. But why not match blends? Do we already have a match blends thread?

Maybe we can have a discussion thread and make a separate sticky once things have been paired down. I think matches are a different beast and are often marketed specifically to imitate a blend while the other situation has more to do with K&K and MacBaren versions of the “same” blend. Also Stokkebeye has the same blend appearing in different brands and configurations. Former Dunhill blends, older Peterson Blends, even Erinmore has a K&K version under a different name.

 

[stokesdale]

Maybe we can have a discussion thread and make a separate sticky once things have been paired down. I think matches are a different beast and are often marketed specifically to imitate a blend while the other situation has more to do with K&K and MacBaren versions of the “same” blend. Also Stokkebeye has the same blend appearing in different brands and configurations. Former Dunhill blends, older Peterson Blends, even Erinmore has a K&K version under a different name.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The only problem I see is that 70% of the VaPers will all be in a category, then 70% of the VaPer with dark fire will be in another. Then all Balkans are really similar, Latakias with Virginia, etc... all Vanillas, etc... What exactly makes them "equivalents"?

I mean I know that Wallace flake used the original recipe for UF before things changed by the blenders. They aren't exactly alike. Now, I'd call them two plum flavored aromatics. But, does that make them equivalents? Almost all Balkans were trying to emulate Balkan Sobranie, even if their recipes are vastly different in rations. But, that is where we get the name of that whole category, even though flavors vary now.

I'm just not sure where the fact that it is considered an equivalent ends and the whole genre begins. It's not as easy as "this one was trying to emulate this or that, because in the end, it is like a lot of other stuff too.

Is Royal Yacht an equivalent for for UF also. Tastes a lot alike to me. Does being a flake or not disqualify it?

Lots of questions come to mind.

 

[ofafeather]

The only problem I see is that 70% of the VaPers will all be in a category, then 70% of the VaPer with dark fire will be in another. Then all Balkans are really similar, Latakias with Virginia, etc... all Vanillas, etc... What exactly makes them "equivalents"?

I mean I know that Wallace flake used the original recipe for UF before things changed by the blenders. They aren't exactly alike. Now, I'd call them two plum flavored aromatics. But, does that make them equivalents? Almost all Balkans were trying to emulate Balkan Sobranie, even if their recipes are vastly different in rations. But, that is where we get the name of that whole category, even though flavors vary now.

I'm just not sure where the fact that it is considered an equivalent ends and the whole genre begins. It's not as easy as "this one was trying to emulate this or that, because in the end, it is like a lot of other stuff too.

Is Royal Yacht an equivalent for for UF also. Tastes a lot alike to me. Does being a flake or not disqualify it?

Lots of questions come to mind.

I would keep it simple and aim for recent changes. MacB produces blends under historically established names. Erinmore Flake, Dunhill/Peterson Nightcap, etc. KK has blends under Rattray and McConnell (maybe others) that are the same or marginally different but have entered the market under a new name. All or most of the McConnell yellow label and white label Rattray. I don’t want to have to guess each blend or look it up all the time if someone knows what the corresponding original blend was. I think the intent is clear and separate from match, tribute or style blends.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

But, Wallace was never a match blend. It used a defunct recipe that it revived from when they used to make UF. But, it doesn't taste exactly like UF now.

Match blends were blends made by other companies for bulk sales of blends that were not offered in bulk, or were removed. At one time 15ish years ago, the Dunhill branded tins were no longer available, so matches were made for those by a few companies. But after Dunhill was made available again, they just became their own things.

Some matches, like Russ's work on redoing codger blends, were meant to be better quality tobaccos without the preservatives.

So, "match" isn't an industrial standard term. It has variances and would be hard to nail down. Heck, most of these guys can't agree on what an aromatic is, ha ha.

 

[mso489]

Even matches don't entirely match. I think it would be an inexact discussion, to put it mildly. It makes more sense to attend to the constituent tobaccos claimed by each blend and note similarities and sample for discernment. Even two tins of the same brand and blend can show differences.

 

[ofafeather]

But, Wallace was never a match blend. It used a defunct recipe that it revived from when they used to make UF. But, it doesn't taste exactly like UF now.

Match blends were blends made by other companies for bulk sales of blends that were not offered in bulk, or were removed. At one time 15ish years ago, the Dunhill branded tins were no longer available, so matches were made for those by a few companies. But after Dunhill was made available again, they just became their own things.

Some matches, like Russ's work on redoing codger blends, were meant to be better quality tobaccos without the preservatives.

So, "match" isn't an industrial standard term. It has variances and would be hard to nail down. Heck, most of these guys can't agree on what an aromatic is, ha ha.

I agree that there is room to nitpick (and around here it would happen even if there want room!) but I think for the purpose of this thread there is a clear line between UF and Wallace, Sterling and Irish, etc. That’s why I’m excluding match or revival blends.

 

[ofafeather]

Even matches don't entirely match. I think it would be an inexact discussion, to put it mildly. It makes more sense to attend to the constituent tobaccos claimed by each blend and note similarities and sample for discernment. Even two tins of the same brand and blend can show differences.

Right. And people will discuss until the end of time comparing Dunhill Orlik vs Murray etc., but we really haven’t had to deal with this same problem before. K&K made Dunhill and are now producing basically the same blends under an entirely different name, which is not made known as part of the marketing. Meanwhile MacB has taken over the production of Dunhill on the Peterson line which is marketed as the real deal.

 

[BROBS]

Right. And people will discuss until the end of time comparing Dunhill Orlik vs Murray etc., but we really haven’t had to deal with this same problem before. K&K made Dunhill and are now producing basically the same blends under an entirely different name, which is not made known as part of the marketing. Meanwhile MacB has taken over the production of Dunhill on the Peterson line which is marketed as the real deal.

STG

 

[ofafeather]

STG

More info pls.

 

[BROBS]

Peterson is made by STG

updating via yoast

www.tobaccoreviews.com

 

[ofafeather]

Peterson is made by STG

updating via yoast

www.tobaccoreviews.com

Thanks. I must have read wrong info somewhere about MacB.

 

[ofafeather]

Peterson is made by STG

updating via yoast

www.tobaccoreviews.com

This is where I read it: Rattray - Wallace Flake (Flake Collection) - Tobacco Reviews - https://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/6835/rattray-wallace-flake

 

[BROBS]

Thanks. I must have read wrong info somewhere about MacB.

So really nothing changed with them just a relabel.

McConnel = Dunhill Blend Name
Heritage St. James Park = Apertif
Shakespeare = Ye Old Signe
Regent Street = Elizabethan Mixture
Ready Rubbed = Ready Rubbed
Picadilly Circus = London Mixture
Paddington = Royal Yacht
Oxford = Standard Mixture Medium
Oriental Square = Durbar
Notting Hill = Standard Mixture
Marleybone = My Mixture 965
Latakia Mixture 1848 = My Mixture BB1938
Highgate = Navy Rolls
Flake = Flake
Covent Garden = Nightcap
Boutique Blend = Early Morning Pipe
Black Flake = Dark Flake
Barking Road = My Mixture 221B Baker Street
5 Year Matured = 3 Year Matured VA

 

[BROBS]

This is where I read it: Rattray - Wallace Flake (Flake Collection) - Tobacco Reviews - https://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/6835/rattray-wallace-flake

Ha yeah they lost it to STG I believe

 

[ofafeather]

So really nothing changed with them just a relabel.

DUNHILL = McConnell
Heritage St. James Park = Apertif
Shakespeare = Ye Old Signe
Regent Street = Elizabethan Mixture
Ready Rubbed = Ready Rubbed
Picadilly Circus = London Mixture
Paddington = Royal Yacht
Oxford = Standard Mixture Medium
Oriental Square = Durbar
Notting Hill = Standard Mixture
Marleybone = My Mixture 965
Latakia Mixture 1848 = My Mixture BB1938
Highgate = Navy Rolls
Flake = Flake
Covent Garden = Nightcap
Boutique Blend = Early Morning Pipe
Black Flake = Dark Flake
Barking Road = My Mixture 221B Baker Street
5 Year Matured = 3 Year Matured VA

Thanks! A big help! Any others that you know? That link mentions University, Irish and Erinmore flake.

 

[BROBS]

Thanks! A big help! Any others that you know? That link mentions University, Irish and Erinmore flake.

Oh see those are the old Peterson blends. Not the new relabeled Dunhill stuff. So yeah very confusing now

 

[ofafeather]

Oh see those are the old Peterson blends. Not the new relabeled Dunhill stuff. So yeah very confusing now

Exactly, except Erinmore. Didn’t know K&K had their own version.