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What are the Benefits to a Lovat Shape

(71 posts)
  1. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    Continuing a thread on the pipe shapes, opened by our Forum member M Thompson, I thought I'll ask a somewhat similar question but on a different shape,this time,it'll be Lovat,and if there are any benefits to this shape,I'm to confess I have developed a love/hate relationship with this very shape,In my opinion its a being pretty versatile shape and often offers rather spacious chamber size ,whereas the overall shortness of the shape may result in hotter yet stronger smoke.Moreover, I'm noticing this very shape are becoming less popular amongst the contemporary pipe manufacturers line ups.So what are your preferences, do You like or dislike the shape? Best Greets, Paul

    Paul The Scandinavian'
    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. pianopuffer

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    the Lovat is my favorite shape, for the reasons you mentioned above. I don't believe I've seen one that I don't like, but I do prefer different sized Lovats for different applications, VA vs English etc...

    I recently picked up a sweet Jerry Crawford Lovat that I couldn't resist. Will post some pictures soon.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    I guess I've been smoking for too many decades. Shape is more an aesthetic preference. They all smoke exactly the same to me.

    I like coffee exceedingly.
    - H. P. Lovecraft
    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. sasquatch

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    I don't see the lovat as a "short" shape at all, it's a billiard variant - add some wood on the shank, take some length off the stem - same proportions as a billiard.

    That advantage is the saddle stem, which is super comfortable.

    Size ranges from tiny to huge, like many shapes.

    At 6"long and 2" tall, this is a hell of a big pipe.

    At 5"long and just an inch and a quarter tall, this is a pretty small pipe.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. thomasw

    thomasw

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    Sasquatch knows! All the billiard variants can vary in their sizing. The sizing is a preference when it comes the Lovat; I have a Cavicchi Lovat that is 6.25" that is fantastic for up to a 1.5h smoke with its larger group 5-ish size bowl. But for a clencher, the key is the saddle stem -- it can be sooooo comfortable; I prefer a shorter saddle stem with more of longer shank on a Lovat, but others will prefer the reverse as lucite/ebonite is lighter than briar. I find a lovat balances better in the mouth with a longer briar shank and a shorter stem; and above all, most of us like a pipe that balances well.

    Here's my Cavicchi for reference....

    After some time he felt for his pipe. It was not broken, and that was something. Then he felt for his pouch, and there was some tobacco in it, and that was something more. Then he felt for matches and he could not find any at all, and that shattered his hopes completely.

    The Hobbit
    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    So, is the Castello also truly a stack? And a Searock? Very nice in any event.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    Lovats are always on my top 5. All-business, connote getting the job done, & great clenchers. Love 'em. Period.

    Head Black Frigate keelhauler, boss powder monkey, & troublemaker 1st class.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. paulie66scandinavian

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    Interesting views here and great looking pipes,just recently grabbed an estate GBD Century Lovat which is rather long and lean and another one Jeanet Supreme which was opposite but has a fairly spacious chamber,I reckon I'm pretty much done with Lovats for the time being,got three of them total.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    assaad

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    I've collected lovats exclusively for a long while now. Sometimes I think I should try something new but then I think I've found what I like so why bother?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. pitchfork

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    I really like Lovats. Some are shorter, some are long. I prefer shorter ones -- with a saddle stem, they're easy to clench and they usually have a pretty decent chamber size for the amount of leverage they put on your gob.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. crashthegrey

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    +3 Charisma

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. mso489

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    I think the shape is less well defined than most, at least in the minds of pipe makers. I've seen somewhat of a variety of pipes labeled Lovat, some of which were something else. Another variable seems to be that some consider the long shank a categorical defining feature, whereas others do not. The ample billiard bowls is one ingredient; the saddle stem is another; the shank seems to be negotiable, some having the long shank and some not. My only Lovat -- so identified by the carver Mogen Johansen of Johs pipes -- is a short pipe with an intermediate shank like a billiard and a saddle stem. It's light weight for its size bowl, nicely balanced, cool smoking all over bowl and shank, and delivering smoke cool through the bit. I like a number of other shapes a little better, like the classic billiard for starters -- but I like my handy Lovat a lot. Still, it's not a shape i buy again.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. olkofri

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    The pipes of the Canadian family.

    I want one of those, but for now I'll pass due to the cavernous chambers.

    Not the sweet, new grass with flowers is this harvesting of mine;
    Not the upland clover bloom...
    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. sasquatch

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    JPM, I don't really consider that big lovat a stack, it's a big pipe, but I don't think it's proportioned to what I think of as a stack... but whatever, it's a bit like toast - no real defined point as to where bread exactly changes over from bread to toast, but we all recognize toast, more or less! Whether it counts as a stack, it's a terrific smoker and a pipe I use a lot because it's got a great bit on it, very comfy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. npod

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    I love the Lovat shape! The saddle stem is very comfortable. They are workhorses. I have 14 total, including a 7 day +1 Castello set.

    Neal
    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. mso489

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    npod, I think shape identification is pretty fluid. Some of those bowls look very pot-like rather than billiard. One of them has a tapered stem. Were all of them sold to you by the makers as Lovats? It's sort of like the pronunciation of your name. If you say they're Lovats, that's what they are. But this illustrates the flexibility on the name of that shape. None of yours have the elongated shank shown in some of the earlier photos on this thread. My Lovat has this shorter shank.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. unkleyoda

    unkleyoda

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    Those look like pot shapes to me.


    So you say you can drink? Well, I'm from Wisconsin. Try to keep up.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. chasingembers

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    Shanks are roo short for the lovat shape.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. npod

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    Semantics. I just happened to have that pic saved online and easy to post. Those are actually all opera shape 44 Castellos. But very similar to the Lovat. I have classic Lovat and also stack/chimney Lovats as well. For me any billiard-esque shape with a saddle stem is a Lovat “in my mind”.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. npod

    npod

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    This pipe is literally the classic Lovat. A 1954 Dunhill root briar Lovat, unsmoked. This is indeed the shape I think of for a classic.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. brooklynpiper

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    I don't own any Lovats but I have been eyeing one of the shape's sexy sisters . . . God willing, someone else won't buy it. Damn SmokingPipes cleaned me out this week.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. judcole

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    I like saddle stems,but it's not the saddle stem that makes it a lovat. It's the saddle stem, combined with other features, as part of the Canadian family. (I've got at least one of all of these shapes except a lumberman.)

    Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
    Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
    Rudyard Kipling
    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. mso489

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    Jud, I've seen that shape guide for the Canadian family of shapes. I'd say about half the pipes I see identified as Lovats have the long Canadian shank. Most of the others have the billiard bowl and the saddle stem, but often have a slightly shortened shank and stem to make a shorter pipe. I think the Lovat is a shape that has been widely interpreted. If someone sold me any of he other "Canadian family" with a short shank, I'd feel scammed. But it seems the pipe makers just don't agree on this one.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. crashthegrey

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    I was always more of a billiard fan, but with my Kaywoodie Super Grain lovat, I may become a convert. I love the long shank in hand. I was never sure about it. But now I really want a Liverpool, as I tend to favor tapered stems. Anyone with the classic long shank pipes have an opinion of a tapered stem. Does it just not feel right on the pipe?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. mso489

    mso489

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    I really like my proper Candadians -- a Benton Iwan Ries house pipe, a Johs, and a Stanwell. They have the long oval shanks, the billiard bowl, and the tapered stem, per the chart.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. crashthegrey

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    And you find the tapered stem is just as good as a saddle in this shape? I'll be on the lookout then.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. tavol

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    The lovat is my favourite shape, in particular the slightly shorter, 5", versions like the Dunhill 4111. They make a sensible sized pocket pipe with classic good looks and the saddle stem means they're comfortable to clench, in many ways the perfect shape.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. paulie66scandinavian

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    I have soft spot for those lovats, especially for the ones seen in the canadian family picture above,also I do like proper canadian but perhaps now when I think about this genre of pipes I might give my preferences to Liverpool and Lovats mainly because usually, those tend to be somewhat lighter in weight.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Very interesting thread. Two of the most popular shapes, the lovat and the bulldog, I find ugly. I do have a couple of bulldogs, ancient venerable pieces of Britwood, but lovat? I think I'll leave it.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. jpmcwjr

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    Bada-bing!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. wayneteipen

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    I'm not so much a fan of a true lovat for my own personal preferences but I do like a saddle stemmed billiard. They are easy to clench and comfortable to smoke. Saddle stemmed billiards often get erroneously grouped with the Canadian family lovat.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    Two of the most popular shapes, the lovat and the bulldog, I find ugly.

    I have one of each and can't remember the last time I smoked either. Just not that appealing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. tschiraldi

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    I'll admit, I am not a fan of any of the Canadian family shapes. They look unbalanced to me, but , more important, they look like they would be front (bowl) heavy. The added weight of extra Briar as opposed to stem material makes me imagine them as extremely uncomfortable! This said, I have never owned ANY of them and am speaking from impression and imagination alone. Many love these shapes, which makes me think my impressions are wrong. So, am I completely off-base here?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. olkofri

    Olkofri

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    Well, not all of us clench.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. jpmcwjr

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    A tiny bit off base. As to weight, the briar in place of rubber adds little if anything. More important is the over all weight of the briar, size of bowl, thickness of walls, which can vary much more widely.

    I have 3-4 Canadians and like them a lot.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. crashthegrey

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    As a constant clencher, I can tell you that the added weight of the briar is negligible. I find a lovat just as comfortable as a billiard of similar shape and size, but with the stem material.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. paulie66scandinavian

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    Tchiraldi:In regards to Canadian and Lumberman shapes,yes I must agree with your statement,those two seem to be a bit bowl heavy,at least to me,who unfortunaley does clench his pipes more than liked.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    Tschiraldi, I don't think you're off-base at all, probably because I agree with Tom -- the Lovat is one of those shapes that's fuzzier than most. On the large end it can look kind of out of proportion, while toward the smaller end to me it looks like the ultimate "all-business, job's done, ready for the next task." I just finished a really nice everyday little French job, not even 5" long. Just my sense of esthetics, I guess, especially considering my love of the crazy Danish types.

    BTW, like your avatar. The Old Guard have always impressed me, tactical mission included. [salute]

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. snowyowl

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    I'm a fan of the Canadian shapes. Having one Canadian (Savenilli) and one Lovat (Parker)... would love more, but 9mm offerings are rare due to the narrow stem it seems.
    All the Canadians are light and delicate smokers, in the jaw, I think.

    "If you see something... pipe up."
    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. tschiraldi

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    Nichols - Thank you. It was an honor to serve in that unit!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  41. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    Most welcome. Elite troops all the way. I know what it takes to qualify. A truly amazing unit.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  42. pastorpiper

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    I'm finding that I am drawn to the Lovat shape the most. My 2 best smokers are Lovats. It's funny how a shape can feel as if it is just made for you only.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. pianopuffer

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    Here are two recent pieces I've picked up, both by Jerry Crawford. One a natural Lovat and the other a slim Canadian.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. lordofthepiperings

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    For me Lovats make really good flake pipes. Since I really enjoy Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Newminster 403 and Newminster400, Stokkebye Luxury Navy Flake, etc. I get more use out of my Lovats than other shapes.

    "The thinking man always smokes a Peterson." -Peterson of Dublin
    Posted 1 year ago #
  45. pianopuffer

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    +1 lord.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. jameshsi

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    Thanks for this thread, bring me into lovat shape and enjoy~

    Posted 2 months ago #
  47. mso489

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    Did someone already say that one of the benefits of the Lovat shape is making the pun on "love it?" We've had some mileage on Forums on that.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  48. jaytex969

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    Was wondering what to smoke next but this thread has made up my mind.

    My one Lovat in service at this time is a Todd Harris Morta Panel Lovat, in which I usually smoke burley flakes until I am cross-eyed and drooling. Thanks for the inspiration

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 2 months ago #
  49. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    I like a very specific type of lovat shape. Here are my fav examples.


    And oh my Neal, tht is some serious collection !!

    Cheers,
    Chris

    Albert Einstein was once quoted as saying, “I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgment in all human affairs.” One of the reasons behind this statement is that pipe smoking is meant to be a slow leisurely activity. It takes patience to smoke a pipe. Unlike cigarettes and cigars, there is a certain amount of technique to smoking a pipe. Where cigars and cigarettes can just be picked up, lit and puffed on, pipes require the development of a technique in order to get the best smoking experience.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  50. mso489

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    Terrific Lovats.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  51. paulie66scandinavian

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    Yes Sir, they truly are 701 savinelli and Dunhills? True stunning looks

    Posted 1 month ago #
  52. dcon

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    I think that the only pipe shape I don’t like is a Blowfish. I have one Lovat, a Rossi. I like a lot of pipes in the Canadian family. I have always desired a pre-Cadogan GBD Canadian but, I have yet to pull the trigger on the ‘right’ one.

    Duane
    (Not Embers)
    Posted 1 month ago #
  53. hauntedmyst

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    I would like Lovats if they were Billiards. But they aren't

    “Judging others makes us blind, whereas love is illuminating.”
    ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
    Posted 1 month ago #
  54. paulie66scandinavian

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    @Hauntedmyst, there are some Lovat models that come very close to saddle stem billiards shapewise I mean

    Posted 1 month ago #
  55. redglow

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    I bought a Lumberman and a Canadian several months ago. After close inspection, I think they're both Lumberman pipes.

    I smoke one of them occasionally and do enjoy it. But, they aren't my go to pipes by any means. This thread is making me want to give them a more frequent workout. Maybe they'll become favorites.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  56. hauntedmyst

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    @Paul

    I get that. I just happen to like what many would consider the most mundane pipe shape ever so I rarely buy anything else. Sometimes I go crazy and get an 1/8 bent billiard when I am feeling whacky

    Posted 1 month ago #
  57. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    @Hauntedmyst,I was always been that way,One simply can't go wrong with classic Billiards,especially with them estates from England and France

    Posted 1 month ago #
  58. ricebiscuit

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    I had always heard one of the benefits to the Lovat shape was that the smoke stayed in contact with the briar for a longer amount of time. Whether that is actually detectable is a different animal, but in principle it makes sense.

    Now the ultimate exercise is shape fluidity is the difference between a Bulldog and a Rhodesian. Ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  59. jpmcwjr

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    Why would that even be a benefit? And there's generally clear definition of bulldog vs.rhodesian, but some will want to muddy the waters.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  60. ricebiscuit

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    I guess longer time in the briar is a poor way to phrase it. A greater briar to ebonite ratio would be beneficial. Smoke travelling through briar is better than smoke travelling through ebonite or metal tubing. The briar will absorb the moisture in the smoke better that ebonite will. Same reasoning behind why an inner tube pipes tend to smoke wetter.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  61. jpmcwjr

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    The briar will absorb the moisture in the smoke better that ebonite will.

    While true, the differential is infinitessimly small.

    Same reasoning behind why an inner tube pipes tend to smoke wetter.

    Different physics. The inner tube starts off cold, and moisture condenses inside the tube.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  62. ricebiscuit

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    "While true, the differential is infinitessimly small."

    Agree, but better none the less. For some, it doesnt matter if the change is discernible. Mentally it makes it better and thats all that matters.

    "Different physics. The inner tube starts off cold, and moisture condenses inside the tube."

    Also agree. Would also argue that what moisture is produced and drops from the air stream during the smoke is not allowed to absorb into a metal tube. Briar affords that opportunity, however small it may be.

    For the record, I dont subsrcibe to the thought that Lovats provide a superior, drier smoke - I cant tell the difference between lets say a billiard and a Lovat based on briar to ebonite ratio. But I have heard the argument from others.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  63. paulie66scandinavian

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    @Ricebiscuit, I have a reason to believe your assumptions are more or less correct, In my experience Lovat,Liverpools and Canadians do smoke somewhat drier & cooler in comparison to standard straight billiards,shape of which I'm a big fan too.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  64. easydraw

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    If I'm going to be driving or doing any work outside. I will probably reach for my Lovat first than any other pipe shape. Simply because it's so easy to clinch and is so balanced to smoke hands free for me. And for what ever reasone it requires fever relights.

    Man can not live on bread alone.... Unless you lock him in a cage and thats all you feed him!
    Posted 1 month ago #
  65. tobefrank

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    I really dig lovat and lumberman pipes, especially sandblasted ones.

    In my opinion the shank should be at least twice as long as the saddle stem for a pipe to be a proper lovat or lumberman, otherwise it is closer to a billiard.

    For a while I had a thing for lovats with longer than usual shanks. The longest I have been able to find was this long shanked lovat on Bruce Weaver’s website.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  66. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Also agree. Would also argue that what moisture is produced and drops from the air stream during the smoke is not allowed to absorb into a metal tube. Briar affords that opportunity, however small it may be.
    Agree, but better none the less. For some, it doesnt matter if the change is discernible. Mentally it makes it better and thats all that matters.

    That's a perfect defense of magical thinking. All of my Scottie Piersel pipes are fully lined with a surgical steel tube inside the shank. None smoke wet. Zero. I've yet to see a single complaint along those lines about any of her output. Nor is she the first to do this. The amount of moisture involved in negligible.

    Wet smokes are more the result of poor technique than anything to do with the pipe, whatever the shape. Dry tobacco delivers better flavors and doesn't deliver wet smokes.

    And I still think lovats are ugly and that your mother dresses you funny.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  67. jameshsi

    jameshsi

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    After 1 month past since I got my Castello Sea Rock Lovat from SP, I've try some different tobaccos with it, it seems to me, just my personal opinion, it's better when I smoke it with Virginia based tobaccos, I am not quite sure how you guys doing, can you share what tobaccos you tend to stuffed into your favorite lovat pipes ?

    Posted 4 weeks ago #
  68. pianopuffer

    pianopuffer

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    Depends on the pipe. Bowl diameter and depth affect the flavor and smoke for me the most.
    Castellos are known for smoking "bright" so perhaps that explains your VA experience.

    Posted 4 weeks ago #
  69. mso489

    mso489

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    Like any shape, the benefits vary from pipe to pipe. In the long stem category, I like Canadians with the oval shank and tapered stem best. However, I have a short shank Johs Lovat with the saddle stem and nice big bowl that I like a lot for being compact, light, and having plenty of chamber. I know he trots out a lot of pipes, but Johs does a good job by my lights.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  70. hugodrax

    hugodrax

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    What is the benefit of a Lovat? It's bloody practical, that's what.

    Full size billiard bowl, enough shank so that smoke does not go up one's nose, supreme clenchability, can be stowed in a shirt pocket...why, it's the pipe of the outdoorsman.

    They're jaunty and useful, unlike yours truly, although it is hands down my favorite shape.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

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