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Tobacco Secret Sauce?

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  1. brightleaf

    brightleaf

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    I am a new pipe smoker and am excited to learn about this new world I discovered. In researching what makes blends unique I am finding that there is much more to it than I initially thought. At first when I saw the blending kits by John Middleton, and Cornell & Diehl, as well as the Pipe Tobacco For Blending by McClelland, and A Blender's Bench by Daughter's & Ryan I assumed it was simply mixing different tobacco strains together. I learned that strains, soil, climate and curing processes are customized to create unique flavors in tobacco. Which are blended together in various quantities and combinations.

    Then I learned about saucing and casing. Adding different sugars such as glucose, invert sugar, honey, St. John's bread, and molasses or flavoring like licorice seem to be common in sauces. Casing can also include sugar and licorice but also commonly includes tonka bean Dipteryx odorata and deer's tongue Trilisa odoratissima and there are many more flavorings that are trade secrets. But this information seems much harder to reveal. Does anyone know where I can find more information on these secret sauces and casings?

    POSSIBLY, contentment is not only the chief element of life, but also one of the very foundations of society. If this be so, then as Tobacco is the enemy of malice, friend of virtue, and a direct cause for content, its use should be encouraged. -J.W. Cundall 1901
    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. bassbug

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    That's kinda like asking for the secret recipe to make Coke or KFC

    I don't care who you are, you're not walking on the water while I'm fishing
    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. jvnshr

    jvnshr

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    Here is the one that C&D shared some time ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y30FA7MD3fM

    Javan
    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    There are two good public sources for some info on tobacco flavorings. The first is the Legacy Tobacco Industry Documents website. This si the repository of documents that were uncovered during the tobacco settlement boondogle. Over time, a lot of the really good stuff, like formulas, have been redacted at the demand request of industry attorneys, but there are still some gems of info in there if you are persistent and patient.

    The next would be Denmark's health ministry website. Denmark at one time required the public publication of tobacco products ingredients. It's a bit difficult now to ferret this stuff out if you don't speak Danish. Again, I suspect that industry pressure has forced the removal of much of what was once easily found, but again, persistence and patience may pay off. Here's a link that will get you started.

    Of course, the best way to find out how sausage is made is to go find work in the sausage factory.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    They all use Horse Semen, and mix in alcohols and other flavors. You need a horse, first and foremost.

    "My own experience has been that the tools I need for my trade are paper, tobacco, food, and a little whiskey." -- William Faulkner

    The Metal Mixtures
    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. cosmicbobo

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    Deer Tongue, the easiest I found, is in powdered form at Penn Herb. Someone here posted that when I mentioned eBay. Some places have the root. Not sure if that gives the same as the leaves. The stuff I first got was leaves, but had stems. Not a major deal. If you're a purist, Penn Herb has that. I got the leaf (not root) powder there. You can't see it after it sort of melts into the tobacco, but the results are more flavorful.

    Be that as it may, it probably never was...
    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. cortezattic

    Cortez

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    It may be difficult to find tobacco flavoring recipes, but you can experiment on your own.
    Here's a source for flavoring ideas: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tobacco-flavor.html
    Here's a source for methods: http://m.wikihow.com/Flavor-Cigars-or-Pipe-Tobacco

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. judcole

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    Does anyone know where I can find more information on these secret sauces and casings?

    That's kinda like asking for the secret recipe to make Coke or KFC

    Bingo. These are closely guarded trade secrets. Ain't gonna happen.

    Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
    Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
    Rudyard Kipling
    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Cortez, it's good to know that the 2-Acetyl Pyrazine is food grade!

    I have a decoder list of industry flavorings, and it's similar. Reads more like the Merck Manual than Joy of Cooking.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. brightleaf

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    I was reading an old tobacco book The Production of Tobacco by Wightman Wells that mentioned humectants like glycerin and diethylene glycol, but also says that apple juice concentrate is being used. I don't know if different fruit juice concentrates would contribute to smell or flavor if used in the role of humectants but I would think so.

    I don't expect to get exact recipes for specific blends but when I read "A very large number of flavorings are used", I get the feeling that there are lists available that are longer than what I found.

    The youtube video was really cool. Thanks for that.

    Horse semen? What source did you learn that from? I assume your joking but given the demand for Stag Semen Stout your joke isn't unrealistic. Although I think their beer sells because people know it has semen as an ingredient, not due to the flavor. I can't speak from experience.

    Alibaba as a search resource. I never would've thought of that. Clever

    The Tobacco Truth documents are somewhat difficult to search. I will have to spend more time with them, that is a new source for me. I also tried to find an older, original version of them on a file sharing site but didn't have any luck.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    British tobacco companies used aliases for the actual names of flavorings when formulating blends, in effort to keep both their employees and their competition in the dark about the real composition of their blends. The decoder key for these aliases was a closely held secret, but it was divulged as part of the tobacco litigation. I don't have a link to it on the Legacy Documents site, but it's in there (or at least used to be).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. mso489

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    Oh no-no-no-no. Not knowing and guessing is one of the great joys of pipe smoking. We've all taken a shot at the flavoring of Dunhill's Royal Yacht. Many say plum, but there are other candidates and some ideas about additional flavorings. I've just established with one of our blending pros on Forums that "rough cut Kentucky burley" Granger is a semi-aromatic with probably some anise and likely one or two other subtle flavors. Many aromatics are forthright about their flavorings -- cherry, rum, whiskey, chocolate, citrus, and so on, but quite a few are not. Peretti's lists on the label of their seasonal Thanksgiving Day: anisette, fruit, citrus, and rum -- and a delightful convergence they are. Welcome aboard, and happy smoking ... and guessing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    the secret recipe to make Coke

    make a pile of sugar, add a drip of water and processed cola-nut and you're good to go! But pssst...they'll sue me if they find out, that I've found out, what I wasn't supposed to find out!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. brightleaf

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    I was looking through the Truth Tobacco Industry Documents for their secret sauce recipes. I will probably continue to do so. Here is what I found today:
    Data Warning Very Large Document
    https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=hphc0015

    Title of Document:
    Exhibits 1 through 16 to Heimann Deposition in Ella Mae Horton and Nathan Horton, Widow and Son of nathan Henry Horton, Deceased, Individually and On Behalf of All Wrongful Death Beneficiaries and The Estate of the Deceased v. The American Tobacco Company and New Deal Tobacco and Candy Company, Inc.

    pg.1523 Tobacco products are refined by the addition of additives, humectants, tobacco casings, and flavor-enhancing compounds. The most widely used humectants are propanediol, glycerol, diethylene glycol, triethylene glycol, D-sorbitol...Analyses of 18 U.S. Cigarette brands showed ranges of 0.46 to 2.24 percent propylene glycol and 1.7 to 3.15 percent glycerol in the tobaccos...
    Pipe tobaccos may contain up to 30 percent of casing agents. These are primarily sugars, starches, humectants, and plant extracted isoprenoids.

    pg.1951 “Saucing” material, or casings containing licorice, sweetening agents, sugars, and other flavoring materials are added to improve the flavor, aroma, and smoke taste.

    What I thought was interesting was the addition of several new humectants to the list, as well as the claim of up to 30 percent casing agents. I will assume that is 30 percent by weight since by volume wouldn't make sense to me. The last thing I noticed in this document was the specific mention of licorice again. I am beginning to wonder if most all pipe tobacco have some licorice in it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. brightleaf

    brightleaf

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    I just found a source for what I was looking for. It is mainly based on cigarette additives but should be useful to search through.
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Cigarette_additives

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    You've seen Right-Dress Licorice Root Mulch? That's a by-product from the manufacturing of licorice-derived sweeteners and flavorings used in the tobacco industry. Google "Licorice Camden" to start your research. You can then plug "MAFCO" into the Legacy Tobacco library search engine and read more.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. cortezattic

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    That 30% casing by weight for pipe tobacco is a figure I read before in Milton Sherman's 1970-ish book All About Tobacco. Although he was an industry insider, his tone was untroubled and unapologetic. I believe it was an upper limit figure, and mentioned in the context of OTC aromatics.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. brightleaf

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    I would think most of the weight of casings is from sugars, followed by humectants, then flavorings and others taking up the least percentage.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. condorlover1

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    Somewhere on here we tell you whats in War Horse Bar and War Green. The former uses Valerian root extract which is a natural sedative and was used in the original to stop you wrenching from the poor quality tobaccos used! Really I am not joking either as Dan and myself and our friend Mr 1920s smoked an original WH Bar and Mr. 1920s threw up. Russ wouldn't even smoke the the 1930s sample as C.I didn't have enough insurance coverage on him!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Yes, but it was the mercury that added most of the weight.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. jpmcwjr

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    You're as mad as a hatter!

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. condorlover1

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    Stale W.H Bars change hands in Harlem for $30 each as a reasonable substitute for 'Golden Leb' hashish resin!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

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    Mine looks more like 'Red Leb'

    As for valerian root...

    "Some people use valerian for depression, mild tremors, epilepsy, attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS)."

    ...that might explain why I'm a trembling suicidal mess who can't be arsed bothered to do anything whilst sitting here twiddling my thumbs and throwing a wobbly

    Regards,

    Jay.

    ...take up thy stethoscope and walk...
    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. brightleaf

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    I found a thread on here by deniz that already compiled good sources for pipe tobacco additives.
    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/collection-of-pipe-tobacco-additives-lists

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. deathmetal

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    We've all taken a shot at the flavoring of Dunhill's Royal Yacht.

    It's sherry, prune juice and horse semen.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. brightleaf

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    From A Textbook On Tobacco by Carl Werner

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    sumusfumus

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    Fascinating subject ..... but the horse jizz casing ..... not so much.

    BTW, do any "secret archives" exist for tobacco blending recipes- for the common mixtures? Just wondering.

    Frank
    NYC

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. brightleaf

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    I have not yet seen much revealing the breakdown of specific blends. There is spotty evidence here and there, but they are generally well guarded secrets. Researching the blending kits and what people come up with is a good start. Developing the right casing/topping or figuring out what that recipe is, is the real mystery.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    The Danish ministry of health used to publish rather detailed bills of ingredients for all blends sold in DK. The US FDA may someday soon do the same.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. cosmicfolklore

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    One of the positives to home blending, or growing even, is that you don't have to add all of the stuff you don't want in your pipe anyways. I steamed some honey into my own blends, but really I just wanted something for mold, and maybe a tinge of flavor. There are a couple of other things that I might try in the future, but nothing drastic, for flavoring. One of the main reasons some of the big companies add stuff, is to keep blends tasting consistent over the years, unless your talking about making an aromatic, or your own Erinmore.
    Plus, not all blends are cased. Greg Pease's (at least his early work) is mostly pure tobacco. There may be stuff added before he gets it to work with, but I think he disputes this. I think some of C&D's stuff is pure.

    On one of the early RadioShows, Brian had a great interview with Russ Oellette on using stuff he finds in the grocers.

    But really, if you want to really play chef, growing and curing is where some interesting art takes place. You can decide whether you want golden Virginias or fermented reds, or take it on down to a rich brown. Fire cured? Twists? Pressing it?

    Unfortunately, we live in an age where we can't just plant some seeds and sell some cool new flavors. But, we can at least enjoy something unusual, new, unique. Maybe share a little with a friend. But...

    Michael
    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. hawky454

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    I’ve been wanting to play around honey as a topping but I’m not sure how to actually go about it without making the tobacco sticky. Cosmic, did that impart a honey flavor at all? How did you do it exactly if you don’t mind my asking?

    MLC had shared with us the recipe for St. Bruno but it was very complex and written in code, I wouldn’t even know how to source half of the ingredients used but the fact that it’s so well guarded and because it’s such a complex recipe I only have the deepest respect for it, it’s not something just anyone with a few varietals can whip up at home, this is master blending at its finest. There was also another thread about other companies spending years trying to clone the Erinmore taste but no one could pull it off, they didn’t even come close. There are a lot of really good threads on this subject, if you search from Google just put Pipes Magazine at the end of your search request and you’ll get a lot better results than searching through the built in search engine here.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    sumusfumus

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    Just how much do casings/toppings really influence the basic blend of tobaccos? I wonder. I've read that:

    10 parts Black Cavendish
    4 parts White Burley
    2 parts Virginia

    was the starting point for "Captain Black". Interesting, but I doubt these three tobaccos when mixed would evoke "CB". Can anyone speculate what toppings etc. are added to this mixture of basic tobaccos that would make it smoke like "CB" and not just some other Cav-Bur_Va like (like RLP-6) type blends? Vanilla?

    The above basic blend 10-4-2 Cav-Bur-Va can be mixed with anything within the family of those specific tobaccos. What if we decide to use Toasted Cavendish, or, unflavored Cavendish, Dark Fired Burley, Red Virginia, Bright Virginia, stoved Virginias....etc, etc. The basic blend of three tobaccos can go in many directions. Without a specific recipe, a guy can waste a lot of good tobaccos.

    In the world of wines and perfumes, there exists a group of very special people that have the ability to sniff out and discern the various components in wines and perfumes. Professional tasters and noses. Is there any equivalent within the pipe tobacco world? Professional smokers and sniffer that can pick out the different tobaccos and flavorings in the commercial blends?.

    Frank
    NYC

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. cosmicfolklore

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    Cosmic, did that impart a honey flavor at all? How did you do it exactly if you don’t mind my asking?

    No, I don't mind sharing at all. Take the dry leaf, whether you grew it yourself or buy it, it will start off brittle and bone dry. Then put some water in a large pot, and add bring it up to a boil and add some honey (I don't use measuring cups when I cook, sorry) maybe a few tablespoons. Then back the heat down till it is merely a good steam coming off of the pot. Then put a rack or an upside down colander on top of the pot and lay the leaf over it till it becomes pliable. You don't want the leaf to get soaked or too wet. Then do with it what you are going to do. It will be a little sticky, but you should be wearing gloves while handling tobacco anyways.

    It imparts a very subtle flavor, which might be hard to identify as honey right away. I've also heard good things about doing this with apple juice, but it doesn't have the anti-molding properties. But, added as a casing like this, the idea is that it should harmonize with the tobacco, not overpower it. And, my idea of harmony is barely tasting it over the tobacco flavors. Just my $0.02

    I find that working with stuff that I grow or have processed, I just like to keep it all from my own grown. I don't keep hives, but I have a neighbor at the farm that does. So, it is made from pollen that I grew at least.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. hawky454

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    Very cool, thanks for sharing! I’ll have to give it a whirl.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. jpmcwjr

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    In looking at the latest ridiculous push to warn people, some group in CA is pushing to have a cancer risk warning put on coffee cups. The danger? Well, six part per billion of acrylamide exists in a cup of coffee on average. But coffee has also been demonstrated to reduce risk of some cancers.

    Anyway, the above is an aside. What I ran across regards honey:

    NEWSLETTER

    AUTHORITY NUTRITIONEvidence Based
    All About Raw Honey: How Is It Different Than Regular Honey?

    Honey is a thick, sweet syrup made by honey bees.

    It’s loaded with healthy plant compounds and has been linked to several health benefits.

    However, there's controversy surrounding which type of honey — raw or regular — is healthiest.

    Some people believe that the raw variety of honey is better for optimal health, while others claim there is no difference between the two.

    What Is Raw Honey?
    Jar of Honey
    Raw honey is best described as honey “as it exists in the beehive” (1).

    It is made by extracting honey from the honeycombs of the hive and pouring it over a mesh or nylon cloth to separate the honey from impurities like beeswax and dead bees (2).

    Once strained, raw honey is bottled and ready to be enjoyed.

    On the other hand, the production of regular honey involves several more steps before it is bottled — such as pasteurization and filtration (1).

    Pasteurization is a process that destroys the yeast found in honey by applying high heat. This helps extend the shelf life and makes it smoother (2).

    Also, filtration further removes impurities like debris and air bubbles so that the honey stays as a clear liquid for longer. This is aesthetically appealing to many consumers (2).

    Some commercial honeys are additionally processed by undergoing ultrafiltration. This process further refines it to make it more transparent and smooth, but it can also remove beneficial nutrients like pollen, enzymes and antioxidants (2, 3, 4).

    Moreover, some manufacturers may add sugar or sweeteners to honey to reduce costs.

    SUMMARY
    Raw honey is best described as honey “as it exists in the beehive.” It is extracted from the beehive, strained and poured straight into the bottle, bypassing commercial processing methods.
    What Are the Main Differences Between Raw and Regular Honey?
    Raw and regular honey are processed quite differently.

    This can lead to a variety of distinctions between the two, especially in quality.

    Here are the main differences between raw and regular honey.

    Raw Honey Is More Nutritious

    Raw honey contains a wide variety of nutrients.

    It has approximately 22 amino acids, 31 different minerals and a wide range of vitamins and enzymes. However, the nutrients are only present in trace amounts (5, 6, 7).

    What’s most impressive about raw honey is that it contains nearly 30 types of bioactive plant compounds. These are called polyphenols, and they act as antioxidants (3, 8, 9).

    Many studies have linked these antioxidants with impressive health benefits, including reduced inflammation and a lower risk of heart disease and certain cancers (6, 10, 11).

    Conversely, commercial honeys may contain fewer antioxidants due to processing methods.

    For example, one study compared the antioxidants in raw and processed honey from a local market. They found that the raw honey contained up to 4.3 times more antioxidants than the processed variety (3).

    Link to full article.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. cosmicfolklore

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    I didn't choose honey for any "health food" reasons. But, because it helps prevent mold and I happened to have it on hand. If you are eating honey, raw honey can contain food borne diseases like botulism (I don't know exactly which food poisoning) and such. I don't know specifics, but I keep the raw honey in the fridge and toss it after a few months. The pasteurized honey, I'll keep in the cabinet for years. But, like I said, I didn't use it for any "healthy" reasons.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    jitterbugdude

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    Be careful when using honey. Once you dilute it and heat (to a high temp) it you destroy it's anti-microbial activity. Honey, as found in the capped cell is about 20% water. If you increase the water content the honey will mold. Honey works its magic because of the enzyme glucose oxidase. As a small amount of heat is added to honey the enzyme causes the release of hydrogen peroxide thus giving rise to its antimicrobial effects. Honey is great for putting onto wounds. The moist skin and body temperature is perfect for the enzyme to do its thing. Excessive moisture and heat will destroy it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. cosmicfolklore

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    Every twist that I did before I started using honey (as described above) that first year, molded within weeks. But every twist done after I added it to the water didn't. Sure, it still could be coincidence, but that's a rather coincidental coincidence. Ha ha.

    Maybe the leaf absorbs the water/steam, leaving the honey on the surface in a less diluted form? Who knows. Maybe it's just magic.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. brightleaf

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    I was looking through an old 1973 article on humectants and thought it may be of interest for this thread
    https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=hrff0177


    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. brightleaf

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    Here is a partial list of products from HEINR. BORGWALDT, a company that operates out of Germany who describe themselves as a Manufacturer, Dealer, and Exporter of All Kinds of Tobacco Ingredients. I have also included the recommended amount to be applied in grams of product per 100 kg of tobacco. The document is from 1967 and can be found here https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=npwc0101
    Here is a link to their current website http://borgwaldt.hauni.com/en/company/facts-and-figures.html Something I found to be interesting is the multiple products that create the flavors we normally associate with the natural curing and processing of tobacco. For example, Latakia, Kentucky, Perique, Virginia, Dark Fired, Turkish, etc. There are even multiple products with the name Pipe Tobacco, presumably useful if you don't want to mix something on your own. The use of standardized, chemically pure flavors is the only way to ensure product consistency when creating a blend that is made over many years. While we may like to think of tobacco blending as we would think of making food in our kitchen, natural plant materials are too variable in quality to be of use in large scale manufacturing processes over a long term. I do not know how wide spread the use of these products are, and given the Cornell & Diehl Golden Days of Yore video that jvnshr posted it is clear that they are not always used, but considering that this business exists and has such an extensive catalog, someone must be using them. These products are assigned codes in the catalog that are different from the names listed here, and these codes do change with time. Woodsroad mentioned the use of codes in recipes and these may be for products similar to what is listed here. In addition, as flavors are dissolved in an alcohol solution before being applied to tobacco, it is an easy task to separate a blend into component leaf types by weight and analyze the toppings applied to each type by redissolving them in alcohol. The alcohol solution can provide the amount of every flavor additive used. I have not included many flavor products listed in the catalog, including ones labeled as American Blends. Look below and see if you can identify some familiar flavor profiles for blends you enjoy. I thought Tonka 322 sounded like a pleasant flavor. Perhaps Otto of Rose of Geranium 2419 is a component of what we call Lakeland essence. I can imagine Full Virginia Flake using a hint of Honey 1890 and Straight Virginia 2818.

    I have a list of many plants that are used as the source for tobacco flavors, and may list them in the future as source for DIY folks. I will end with a general remark about Tonka and Deer Tongue. Both of these historically common tobacco ingredients have one thing in common, Coumarin. Coumarin contributes a sweet, creamy, vanilla like quality to products. It is of questionable safety, but is sometimes allowed in certain quantities depending on the country. Coumarin is often used instead of Tonka or Deer Tongue to achieve the same basic flavor, although substitutes are needed in countries that have banned it. I understand that cheap imitation, or Mexican vanilla contains, or did contain Coumarin, if you are looking for a source to try at home. While Coumarin is used as a blood thinner by prescription and as rat poison, under the name Warfarin, I would not use these sources.

    Some Basic Tobacco Flavors
    Almond 1361 (Strong, sweet), 13-30g/100 kg
    Angelica 3011 (Rich, spicy), 100-120g/100 kg
    Angelica 2542 (Similar to 3011, but non-alcoholic), 100-120g/100 kg
    Anise 375 (Strong, intensely sweet), 30-50g/100 kg
    Apple 2441 (Fresh fruity note), 100-120g/100kg
    Apple 2740 (Full-bodied fruity), 100-120g/100kg
    Apricot 1153 (Soft and sweet), 100-120g/100kg
    Apricot 2318 (Sweet, aromatic), 80-100g/100kg
    Apricot 2801 (Soft, fruity), 80-100g/100kg
    Apricot 3300 (Rich Apricot-Kernel note), 100-150g/100kg
    Banana 1741 (Intense, sweet), 80-100g/100kg
    Blackberry 2381 (Sweet and fruity), 100-150g/100kg
    Blackberry 3248 (Rich, sweet), 100-120g/100kg
    Blackberry 3358 (Strong, aromatic), 100-120g/100kg
    Caramel 2096 (Heavy, intense), 50-150g/100kg
    Carob 1002 (Heavy St. John's Bread note), 100-200g/100kg
    Carob 1605 (Rich St. John's Bread note), 100-200g/100kg
    Cascarilla 2161 (Aromatic, spicy), 30-60g/100kg
    Cascarilla 3234 (Spicy and woody), 100-200g/100kg
    Cedarwood 1870 (Strong and balsamic), 30-50g/100kg
    Cherry 2444 (Fresh, fruity), 100-120g/100kg
    Cherry 2974 (Balsamic, aromatic), 100-120g/100kg
    Cherry 3301 (Rich Cherry-Kernel note), 100-150g/100kg
    Cherry, Wild 1221 (Sweet almondy Cherry character), 50-100g/100kg
    Chocolate 2324 (Soft cocoa note), 100-150g/100kg
    Chocolate 2916 (Slightly fruity), 80-100g/100kg
    Chocolate, Cream 2397 (Rich, creamy Cocoa note), 50-100g/100kg
    Chocolate, Cream 2411 (Soft and sweet), 50-100g/100kg
    Chocolate, Ginger 1895 (Full-bodied Cocoa-Ginger note), 80-100g/100kg
    Chocolate, Ginger Cream 1883 (Soft, sweet Cocoa-Ginger note), 80-100g/100kg
    Cocoa 690 (Soft, aromatic), 50-150g/100kg
    Cocoa 700 (Strong, sweet), 80-100g/100kg
    Cocoa 1389 (Rich Cocoa-Vanilla note), 100-200g/100kg
    Cocoa-Walnut 2708 (Strong, nutty Cocoa note), 80-100g/100kg
    Coffee 1772 (Heavy, aromatic), 30-100g/100kg
    Cola 834 (Fresh, spicy), 80-100g/100kg
    Coriander 3591 (Balsamic Coriander-Clove note), 80-100g/100kg
    Cinnamon 1043 (Heavy, somewhat balsamic), 50-100g/100kg
    Date 2239 (Sweet, fruity), 1000-1500g/100kg
    Deer Tongue 1841 (Heavy, aromatic), 100-120g/100kg
    Deer Tongue 1032 (Heavy, sweet), 100-200g/100kg
    Deer Tongue 1720 (Full-flavored, soft and sweet), 30-50g/kg
    Deer Tongue 1732 (Strong and spicy), 100-200g/100kg
    Deer Tongue 2247 (Fruity Deer Tongue-Tonka note), 80-100g/100kg
    Deer Tongue 2359 (Full-bodied, spicy), 100-120g/100kg
    Fig 668 (Sweet, intensely fruity), 100-200g/100kg
    Fig 2015 (Mild, fruity), 500-800g/100kg
    Fig 2040 (Strong, fruity), 100-150g/100kg
    Fig 2459 (Fresh fruity and sweet), 200-300g/100kg
    Fennel 2089 (Rich and strong), 80-100g/100kg
    Havana 2434 (Spicy, woody, balsamic), 50-60g/100kg
    Havana 3314 (Woody Cascarilla type note), 80-100g/100kg
    Hazelnut 2523 (Fresh and sweet), 50-60g/100kg
    Honey 1011 (Strong, slightly spicy), 50-100g/100kg
    Honey 1528 (Soft sweet Honey-Tonka note), 150-200g/100kg
    Honey 1541 (Floral Fennel-Honey character), 20-50g/100kg
    Honey 1801 (Rich, balsamic), 30-40g/100kg
    Honey 1890 (Sweet, floral Honey-Rose note), 50-60g/100kg
    Honey 2000 (Soft, sweet), 500-700g/100kg
    Honey 2341 (Soft and floral), 50-100g/100kg
    Honey 2703 (Heavy-bodied, aromatic Honey note), 40-50g/100kg
    Keora 2438 (Spicy, somewhat woody), 50-70 g/100kg
    Kentucky 1750 (Full-bodied, smoky Fired-cured Tobacco note), 100-150g/100kg
    Kentucky 2185 (Heavy, smoky, slightly fruity), 100-150g/100kg
    Latakia 1752 (Spicy and smoky), 80-120g/100kg
    Latakia 2148 (Soft Latakia-Tonka note), 100-120g/100kg
    Latakia 2160 (Sweet, spicy), 100-120g/100kg
    Latakia 2826 (Heavy-bodied, smoky), 100-200g/100kg
    Latakia 3296 (Mild, smoky), 150-200g/100kg
    Lavender 1840 (Fresh, strong), 10-50g/100kg
    Licorice 2409 (Soft, somewhat spicy), 100-150g/100kg
    Licorice 2518 (Mild and sweet), 50-100g/100kg
    Malt 2103 (Heavy Caramel-like note), 800-1000g/100kg
    Maple 287 (Intensely spicy), 100-200g/100kg
    Maple 1084 (Soft, sweet, quite spicy), 100-300g/100kg
    Maple 1203 (Heavy and sweet), 300-500g/100kg
    Maple 1652 (Full-bodied, fruity), 50-100g/100kg
    Maple 1774 (Sweet, slightly smoky), 100-150g/100kg
    Maple 2036 (Rich, soft Maple note), 200-250g/100kg
    Maple 2312 (Fruity, pleasantly spicy), 150-200g/100kg
    Maple 2358 (Soft fruity and heavy), 150-200g/100kg
    Maple 2389 (Quite fruity), 200-300g/100kg
    Maple 2693 (Smooth, sweet and fruity), 120-150g/100kg
    Maple 3306 (Soft fruity), 150-200g/100kg
    Menthol 1495 (Full-bodied Menthol note), 100-300g/100kg
    Menthol 1907 (Soft, minty), 200-300g/100kg
    Menthol 2207 (Rich, minty), 100-200g/100kg
    Menthol 2976 (Heavy and minty), 100-300g/100kg
    Mint 1872 (Fresh, smooth Spearmint-like note), 100-300g/100kg
    Mocca 1893 (Heavy, smooth Coffee note), 50-80g/100kg
    Mocca 1904 (Mild, aromatic), 80-100g/100kg
    Orange 2209 (Soft and sweet), 100-200g/100kg
    Orange 2543 (Fresh fruity), 50-100g/100kg
    Otto of Rose of Geranium 2419 (Heavy, sweet Geranium-Rose note), 30-50g/100kg
    Raspberry 1782 (Extremely fruity), 80-100g/100kg
    Peach 1171 (Rich, fruity), 100-150g/100kg
    Peach 1794 (Intensely fruity), 50-60g/100kg
    Peach 3356 (Strong and fruity), 100-120g/100kg
    Peach 3357 (Full-bodied fruity), 80-120g/100kg
    Pear 2008 (Full-bodied fruity), 100-120g/100kg
    Perique 2153 (Slightly fruity and smoky), 100-120g/100kg
    Plum 1140 (Fresh fruity, sweet), 100-150g/100kg
    Plum 2705 (Full-bodied Plum note), 80-100g/100kg
    Prune 2127 (Heavy), 100-150g/100kg
    Prune 2412 (Smooth, aromatic), 80-100g/100kg
    Rosemary 1900 (Fresh, aromatic), 20-50g/100kg
    Rum 756 (Heavy and strong), 30-100g/100kg
    Rum, Jamaica 2047 (Rich, aromatic, slightly fruity), 100-150g/100kg
    Rum 2236 (Soft fruity, aromatic), 100-120g/100kg
    Rum 2360 (Strong, slightly fruity), 100-120g/100kg
    Rum 2424 (Smooth, fruity), 100-150g/100kg
    Rum 2573 (Rich and strong), 50-100g/100kg
    Sandalwood 1830 (Smooth and slightly balsamic), 20-30g/100kg
    Spice Flavor 2443 (Strong herbal spiciness), 20-30g/100kg
    Spice Flavor 2921 (Rich, spicy Gingerbread-like note), 100-150g/100kg
    Strawberry 1650 (Full-bodied fruity), 40-50g/100kg
    Sweet Flavor 559 (Sweet fruity and floral), 30-50g/100kg
    Sweet Flavor 2137 (Soft, floral aromatic), 80-100g/100kg
    Sweet Flavor 2138 (Strong, Caramel-like), 80-100g/100kg
    Sweet Flavor 2139 (Rich Honey-Vanilla type note), 80-100g/100kg
    Sweet Flavor 3309 (Floral, aromatic), 80-100g/100kg
    Tamarind 2068 (Heavy fruity character), 150-250g/100kg
    Tonka 322 (Smooth New Mown Hay note), 50-150g/100kg
    Tonka 1040 (Fresh, floral), 100-120g/100kg
    Tonka 1468 (Heavy and spicy), 20-40g/100kg
    Tonka 1736 (Rich, strong), 80-100g/100kg
    Tonka 2203 (Soft Tonka-Rum note), 1000-1500g/100kg
    Tonka 2336 (Heavy and sweet), 50-100g/100kg
    Tonka 2404 (Heavy, spicy), 20-40g/100kg
    Tonka 2856 (Smooth, viscous extract-like note), 40-50g/100kg
    Tonka 3308 (Soft, slightly fruity), 50-100g/100kg
    Tonka 3350 (Fruity and balsamic), 500-700g/100kg
    Turkish 3222 (Balsamic, floral), 150-200g/100kg
    Vanilla 557 (Rich and strong), 20-50g/100kg
    Vanilla 2213 (Strong, sweet), 20-50g/100kg
    Vanilla 2226 (Soft and fruity), 150-200g/100kg
    Vanilla 2345 (Soft and fruity), 150-200g/100kg
    Virginia 666 (Heavy and spicy), 40-50g/100kg
    Virginia 2070 (Heavy, floral spiciness), 50-100g/100kg
    Virginia 2090 (Soft and floral), 50-150g/100kg
    Virginia 2457 (Smooth Caramel-like sweetness), 80-100g/100kg
    Virginia, Dark 2328 (Heavy Latakia-St. John's Bread type note), 80-100g/100kg
    Virginia, Dark-Fired 2393 (Heavy and smoky), 150-300g/100kg
    Virginia, Sweet 1817 (Fresh fruity), 10-50g/100kg
    Walnut 2855 (Heavy and strong), 50-80g/100kg
    Walnutwood 1800 (Heavy, balsamic), 30-50g/100kg
    Walnutwood 3336 (Soft and balsamic), 50-100g/kg
    Wine of Latakia 1471 (Strong, spicy), 500-1000g/100kg
    Wine of Latakia 1472 (Soft and sweet), 1000-1500g/100kg
    Wine of Latakia 1882 (Rich, somewhat fruity), 500-800g/100kg
    Wine of Latakia 2146 (Heavy, fruity), 500-1000g/100kg
    Wine of Latakia 3223 (Strong, winy fruitiness), 1000-2000g/100kg
    Wine Prune 2994 (Soft fruity and winy), 500-1000g.100kg

    Straight Virginia Flavor Compounds
    Straight Virginia 327 (Fresh fruity Tonka-Caramel note), 100-200g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 1871 (Soft, slightly sweet Tonka-like character), 300-500g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2052 (Fruity Caramel-Tonka note), 300-500g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2054 (Heavy, sweet Rum type note), 300-500g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2150 (Smooth Caramel-Deer Tongue character), 100-150g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2174 (Rich, sweet Tonka base type), 300-500g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2279 (Strong Banana-like fruitiness), 100-150g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2302 (Smooth Caramel-Deer Tongue character), 300-500g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2304 (Full-bodied, sweet Tonka-like character), 100-200g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2306 (Strong Tonka-Caramel base type), 100-200g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2522 (Rich Deer Tongue-Cocoa note), 80-100g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 2818 (Soft Pear-Deer Tongue character), 100-150g/100kg
    Straight Virginia 3320 (Sweet fruity Figs-Caramel character), 100-200g/100kg

    Pipe Tobacco Flavor Compounds
    Pipe Tobacco 1019 (Heavy and strong Maple-Tonka note), 100-200g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 1685 (Full-bodied, balsamic, Prune character), 80-120g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 1686 (Rich, fruity Balsam-Tonka note), 120-150g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 1845 (Heavy-bodied Tonka-St. John's Bread note), 120-150g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 1856 (Smooth, balsamic Rum-Deer Tongue type note), 120-150g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 2212 (Rich, sweet fruity-like character), 200-300g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 2305 (Soft fruity Deer Tongue-Coacoa base type), 100-200g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 2372 (Heavy, sweet Tonka-Maple type note), 80-100g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 2425 (Fruity and smoky Balsam-Rum note), 300-500g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 2736 (Soft fruity, floral Vanilla-Tonka character), 100-200g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 2739 (Soft Caramel-Balsam type note), 300-500g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 2934 (Strong, fruity Tonka-Caramel note), 100-200g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 3273 (Rich, sweet, Prune-like fruitiness), 200-300g/100kg
    Pipe Tobacco 3275 (Smooth, fruity Caramel character), 300-400g/100kg

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    sumusfumus

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    My God!.... Incredible amounts of information! Great reading through all this posted material. Thanks for sharing.

    Frank
    NYC

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    jitterbugdude

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    Every twist that I did before I started using honey (as described above) that first year, molded within weeks. But every twist done after I added it to the water didn't. Sure, it still could be coincidence, but that's a rather coincidental coincidence

    Or.. You pasteurized your leaf when you added honey and then steamed it. Did the twists you did not add honey too also get the steam method?

    Brighleaf guy.. nice info!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. brightleaf

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    It is a lot of information, and it can take the magic out of smoking for some. The quote from mso489 in this thread is an example of how it may be like telling a child there is no Santa Claus, "Oh no-no-no-no. Not knowing and guessing is one of the great joys of pipe smoking." I am not trying to be mean, it is just that threads like this probably should have a spoiler alert.

    I think the Borgwaldt company is the final piece of the puzzle in the mystery of the secret sauce. They hold the recipes concocted for their customers as trade secrets and do not divulge them. They will make a custom recipe for anyone, or will sell components to blend your own. I think there are more tobacco blenders that use their services than don't.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. brightleaf

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    http://hertz-flavors.com/ links to another tobacco casing company, Hertz Flavors.
    I also tracked ownership of a third company to what is now called Givaudan https://www.givaudan.com/ but don't see a lot of interest in the tobacco market by this company.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  45. brightleaf

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    Actually I just found a list of 17 different Tobacco Flavor suppliers. The link is here https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=yjmb0147
    it is titled Tobacco Flavor Seminar and has a lot of information on how to create and analyze tobacco flavors. My favorite document so far, but it has too much good info to give a sampling in a post.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. cosmicfolklore

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    Did the twists you did not add honey too also get the steam method?

    Yes,l I had to steam them, as the leaves were all bone dry after the cure.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  47. brightleaf

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    This post is going to cover some facts of general interest in addition to more pertinent thread topics.

    Here is a document that covers the casing (involves a more sugary solution) process in flavoring, it is from a different tobacco flavor seminar than the one from a previous post https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=thmv0137

    To place the casing in perspective to the top flavoring consult this image

    Most terms are commonly understood. Prizing is the process of putting tobacco into Hogsheads which are large barrels that hold about 1000lbs of Virginia or about 950lbs of Burley tobacco for storage, Bales are probably more common nowadays. Ordering is the process of increasing the moisture content of the tobacco.
    I want to add that not every company threshes their tobacco. Threshing is the process of removing the mid-rib. It is shown with an asterisk because it can be done at either position in the process. For those who read the Bird's Eye thread, Bird's Eye is the process of cutting the midrib at right angles and is mainly done for the visual effect. The occasional 90 degree midrib cut or inclusion of midrib does not make a tobacco a Bird's Eye.

    For those interested in the flavoring agents bought by B-A.T. Here is a document describing all of the flavoring products and the companies they purchased them from. It is clear that they shop around.
    https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=xxdv0210

    I have been curious about Red Virginia for awhile, wondering how it was different from other Virginias. I assumed it had to do with the placement of the leaf on the stalk, and the coloring that happened after Stalk Harvesting (which may be an out-dated harvesting method) and subsequent curing while hanging upside down. This may be why some leaves are known as Red Leaf on the Burley plant, but is probably not accurate for Virginia. The Virginia plant is commonly Flue Cured and achieves it's coloration at the “setting” stage of the flue cure process. The color becomes Orange, Orange-Red, or Red commonly in this process. It seems that like the placement of Red leaf on the Burley plant, it is the leaves near the middle of the stalk that are generally going to produce a higher grade leaf. Here are two pictures for your consultation.

    All pics in this post came from a Tobacco Dictionary created for Phillip Morris in 1987, it can be found here https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=kldm0114

    Posted 1 year ago #
  48. yaddy306

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    Those documents make me wonder.

    When we’re enjoying the “fig and prune notes” of our “natural” pipe tobaccos: which chemical company supplied the flavourings?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  49. brightleaf

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    Concerning casing. I believe the most common ingredients in casings besides water to be licorice (licorice root extract, I do not know the amount) and cocoa at 05% to 1% weight (dutch processed cocoa or cocoa higher in cocoa butter content) Honey, Molasses or Fig, Date or Prune syrup can also be used. The casing should bring the total sugar in the blend to 10% tobacco weight. Casing is most likely where the humectant and other amendments will be added, humectants are generally added at about 2.5% to 4% of total tobacco weight. After the casing is applied the tobacco (tobacco should be about 40% moisture level) it is dried to about a 6% (in an oven perhaps) then moisture level is raised back to a 16% level, caramelizing some of the sugars in the heat/drying process (The sugary casing of the Burley is dried more than the none sugary casing of Virginias or Orientals.) (Licorice and Cocoa are important for Burley more than the other types of tobacco.)

    Here a couple pics that I found to be interesting. They are from document RDM 60-040 authored by J Keaton, L Upton in 1960

    For those that want to case their own leaf it may be a good idea not to case your more aromatic leaves (Turkish for example) as it can reduce their aroma. Since Burley is naturally low in sugars the casing for it includes more sugars, if casing Virginias or Orientals much less sugar (about 1/3 of what is used on Burley) is used.
    The casing is usually applied warm (120-180 degrees Fahrenheit) by a fine spray, this helps to keep the solutes in solution and may aid absorption. Then the cased tobacco is steamed to further open the tobacco pores thereby aiding absorption. The tobacco is then cooled to room temperature.

    I thought this was a clever proposal.

    Top Flavoring is usually a last step before packaging and is only used in very minute amounts. The art of subtlety is stressed so as to maintain the natural tobacco flavor. It is usually misted on via an alcohol solution. Top Flavoring is applied to the entire tobacco blend evenly, whereas casing can be different for each tobacco type. At least a week should pass before smoking flavored tobacco to allow for even flavor dispersal.

    On a side note:
    From my research into quality leaves, there is a direct correlation between total sugar content (up to 24% at the upper end) and smoke-ability of Flue-cured( Virginia) tobacco, with low sugar varieties being the worst. The quality is also impaired by low rainfall years (low rainfall=low sugar) and excess fertilizer application. Lower grade tobacco could be improved by the addition of sugar before aging, the aging process shows most of it's effects in the first two years, where the sugar content is naturally reduced (glucose is the sugar that changes significantly, sucrose changes a little bit, the other sugars not so much) in the process.

    From what I have found out about harvesting; Burley was traditionally stalk harvested while Virginia and Orientals were traditional primed (hand picked leaves.) Virginias are Flue cured, Burleys are air cured and Orientals are sun cured. For the home grower in the U.S., air curing seems to be the most practical, and allow easy selecting of high quality leaves. In addition Burleys do better in richer soils and can benefit more from some fertilizer application. These attributes also seem to be better for the small scale home grower who has a small garden, with experience growing other garden plants that require good soil, fertilizer and watering. Growing a Burley, then curing, and casing seem like a simple task. Buying some quality flue cured Virginia, fire cured Kentucky, sun cured Oriental and Perique can then be mixed with your home grown Burley to which can be applied a Top Flavoring if you desire to finish of your homemade blend.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  50. brightleaf

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    yaddy306 it is possible that the fig or prunes flavors come from fruit syrup or fruit concentrate applied during the casing process. Fruit concentrate can also act as an humectant, and serve a double role. Chemistry ensures consistent quality when applied as a flavor and nature often serves as the source for these chemical marvels. The chemist's job is merely to concentrate and purify the goodness.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  51. snagstangl

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    https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/kgcv0196

    How about Flavor Recipies?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  52. woodsroad

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    Define "Flue Cured"

    Posted 1 year ago #
  53. yaddy306

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    Define "Flue Cured"

    A tobacco that has “Flue-cured resinoid F50” from Fries & Bros. Flavours added to it, of course.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  54. brightleaf

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    Good find snagstangle.
    The document is mostly encoded but they provide the key on pages 123, 124, 130 and 157. You can find the codes for familiar brands of completed pipe flavors on page 142 and then starting on page 160-184 it starts listing more recipes for pipe tobaccos.

    Concerning Spirits in the document they use U.P. and O.P., meaning under proof and over proof. I am guessing from memory but I believe 120 is the real proof, which would make 75 O.P. 195 proof or as pure an alcohol as you can get by distillation.

    Flue-cured as defined in the Phillip Morris dictionary https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=kldm0114

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    I thought Tonka 322 sounded like a pleasant flavor. Perhaps Otto of Rose of Geranium 2419 is a component of what we call Lakeland essence. I can imagine Full Virginia Flake using a hint of Honey 1890 and Straight Virginia 2818."

    Hi! Welcome to the forum! You're eagerness to contribute as a new pipe smoker is great. Geranium flavoring is likely used in Grasmere Flake, Brown Flake Scented and the blends that have a rose flavor. There's no indication Samuel Gawith uses these flavorings made by a German company in 1967 is there? While yes the use of flavorings like Tonka is associated with SG or GH now, I imagine in the 1960s there were still quite a few more companies especially in Europe still using flavors like Tonka or Geranium. So it's just pure speculation although it could be possible as Borgwalt appears to be still in business

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    I think the Borgwaldt company is the final piece of the puzzle in the mystery of the secret sauce. They hold the recipes concocted for their customers as trade secrets and do not divulge them. They will make a custom recipe for anyone, or will sell components to blend your own. I think there are more tobacco blenders that use their services than don't.

    It's an interesting theory but doesn't really work for Gawith Hoggarth or SG since the pipe tobacco flavors come from old snuff blends.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  57. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    Maybe share a little with a friend.

    In my view, the future of pipe smoking may involve a barter economy. Many of us will grow and trade raw tobacco and homemade blends. This keeps us 100% off the radar of law, insurance, nagging neurotic nanny nabobs, and others who are dismayed that someone anywhere is having a good time.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  58. brightleaf

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    @pipeman7 This thread extends through time (a few months) and is a good example of my learning process. You are right that SG and G&H may use another company, the data I used is mostly older data and may not reflect current formulas. Snuff (SG) is a whole different ball game, and while I did find their flavors I didn't find it pertinent to post. The quotes you used were fun speculations by me, not facts. I included the speculations as an example of the fun that could be had while reading the descriptors; smooth, fruity, new mown hay, floral, balsamic, etc. For me, the Borgwalt list was like a final piece of the puzzle, at least in a larger sense. I know I will continue to learn in this field. What the Borgwalt list provided was evidence of chemistry used exclusively for the tobacco market. Chemistry that is applied to top flavoring. The indications of tailor made Pipe Blends that could be modified with Latakia or Perique was my main take away. I do not think these indicate that the types of tobacco in a blend are unimportant, but it may explain our inability to recreate blends by using blending kits or mixing single type tobaccos on our own. It was with respect to the Secret Sauce that I felt it lead to a revelation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    The snuff info you found should be informative then since they use many of the same flavors in the snuff as the tobacco and many of the blends come from snuff like grousmoore

    Posted 1 year ago #
  60. brightleaf

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    I looked back for the snuff recipes and did not find them. All I found was general flavor notes, nothing specific. If you're interested in English snuff this is a good read. Snuff Yesterday and Today pgs 22-26 especially. Pgs 25-26 list the flavor notes of Smith & Sons snuff, but again no recipes. Embarrassingly I think this is what I based my claim on
    Samuel Gawith News Article
    "Bob Gregory is director of Samuel Gawith Limited, the company that runs the antique machine. Mr Gregory is a menthol snuff man: “It is very good for when you've got a bad head cold or a hangover. It clears the head,” he claims. The machine is old but some things have changed. Flavoured snuff is the company's idea of modernisation. Traditional Kendal Brown remains the big seller but nowadays you can buy mandarin and cherry favours. Their website boasts of 'NEW!! GIN & TONIC snuff' - a whole night out to be enjoyed up your nostrils. Gregory, a gregarious man with a habit of introducing Dickensian flourishes into his speech, assures me the flavours are of good quality. “If you buy a packet of wine gums, the flavour in the wine gums is the flavour we use in the snuff, so to speak.”

    Flavours are added at the end of the process. Samuel Gawith have about five different base snuff products made from tobacco originating in countries like Brazil and Malawi. The best product goes into the pipe tobacco that the factory makes. Snuff is made from what's left.

    “You don't need to use the finest of tobacco leaf,” explains Gregory. “Half of the character of pipe tobacco is what it looks like. You want it to look nice. You use the best you can afford. With snuff, it's a powder. As long, as it looks like powder, then everyone is happy. You've got very little straw coloured snuff, light coloured, light brown, dark brown, very dark brown and black snuff. It doesn't matter so much with snuff as long as the colour is right.”

    I added the bold because we are pipe enthusiasts

    Posted 1 year ago #
  61. jazz

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    They all use Horse Semen, and mix in alcohols and other flavors. You need a horse, first and foremost.

    Actually, I can't remember who told me but in the case of Penzance and Stonehaven it's ground unicorn horn and pixie piss.

    Seriously though, this thread was an interesting read.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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