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fred

Lifer
Mar 21, 2010
1,509
4
About six months ago, Fred Hanna began to post about tin baking on

SF. I became interested in this way of making fiery blends smoother

and have had good results with it. The basic idea is to take a sealed

tin, or a ball top jar with the tobacco in it and put it in the oven.

Bring the temperature to 190 deg F. for 4-5 hours. Leave the container

sealed for 2-3 days, to allow the moisture to return to the blend and for

it to stabilize. I've done this with blends that are noted for bite,

such as: Hamborger Veermaster, Reiner Long Golden Flake, Orlik Golden

Sliced and Ashton's Artisan's Blend. There are other methods of stoving

blends, but this one seems the most convenient to me, and the results are

good. Fred has done this with Lancer's Slices and I'd thought about it,

but I still have a half kilo of it with 4 years of age on it, so it's already

very smooth. This is something that others might want to try, so without

knowing if it's been discussed here or not, it seemed like a good idea

to start circulating around here.

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,641
Chicago, IL
The following is quoted from The Pipe Tobacco Aging, Storage and Cellaring FAQ because the link has been broken for quite some time now.

7 ~ Does heating, or "stoving", tobacco help? Can I do it at home?
A very popular topic of conversation, which has generated a variety of technical and practical responses! First, the technical:
Increasing the temperature would speed up chemical processes, making the aging go faster, but would likely not speed up all processes equally so the effects would be somewhat different. And increasing the moisture content would likewise speed things along, but may lead to speedy growth of mold.

James Beard, 2001-01-01
Yes, heat will accelerate aging, but the aging and darkening will happen regardless - it just takes longer. Heat also changes the character of a tobacco. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, to be on the safe side, I have always advocated cool, dry, dark environments. (The darkness keeps the labels from fading.)

GL Pease, 2001-08-21
Microwaves won't disrupt the micro-organisms present, but heating the tobacco is just not a good idea. It can undergo other changes, not all of which will be benevolent. [...] If you heat the tobacco sufficiently to kill any mesophiles that are present, you're cooking the tobacco, which will alter its characteristics dramatically. If you like a tobacco the way it is, raising the temperature to something in excess of 40°C will certainly change it, and it won't be what you remember!
Heating tobacco can be beneficial, if its done by the blender. Stoving, steaming, panning all serve to change the tobacco in ways that CAN be beneficial, but it has to be done under controlled circumstances, and the blender must take the stoved leaf into consideration.

GL Pease, 2002-08-19
As with any healthy internet discussion forum, people offer personal experience, as well. :)
[This is the "Steve Laug Method". -Jason] The method is to bake the tobacco in the oven at 225° in mason jars covered in tin foil for 2½ to 3 hours. One main difference I noticed, was now the tobaccos have about twice the aroma than before. I also notice the flavor is more intense, and perhaps a bit rounder, more mature. I have no idea what the prevailing thinking is on this, but I do know that I'll be stoving some others to experiment as a result.

John Rocheleau, 2004-11-11
At 300°F, you'll do a little more than stove the stuff, and will, in fact, scorch it. The right temperature to do this sort of thing is no higher than 220°F. Too, if you put sealed tins or closed up mason jars in the oven, be aware that they may explode. The pressure that builds up can be quite high.
After tobaccos are "stoved" in this manner, it'll take them a week or two to settle down. The changes over that timeframe can be nearly as dramatic as what you experience from the process itself!

GL Pease, 2004-11-11
Having been told several times that heating my tobacco in the tins would improve the tobacco (Most likely many here have heard the old "Leave it on your dashboard on a hot day" adage), I was curious to find out if there was any truth I could detect to it. I put a stack of selected tobaccos out in a window for the entire month of August, through the EU heatwave with a full day's direct sun every day. I stored an equal tin of each blend away in my usual closet stash.
Recently I finally decided to open a pair of tins of Elizabethan, a mix that was recommended as a good guinea pig. I'm sorry to say I can't tell any difference at all between the two - they're both very good and as potent as ever, but the heated tin doesn't offer any depth or richness that the closeted one lacks. Not that I'm complaining, having two tins of good tobacco to smoke! :) It's possible that there wasn't enough heat involved (though, I have to say, solid weeks of 100° weather in direct sun seems pretty toasty). It's also possible that others of the test blends may offer different results. And, of course, it's likely that my taster may not be sensitive enough. For the moment, though, this looks like a bust at first glance.

Trever Talbert, 2004-04-19
I took bulk 5100 and stoved it in a mason jar with aluminum foil on the top (instead of a lid) for 3 hours at 300°. I stopped it before it became 5105. It is so superior to regular 5100 that it is the only way I smoke it now.

max, 2005-01-29
The "hot car method", described here, is widely attributed to Freddy Vegas.

I have stoved tobaccos many times, using different methods, such as leaving a tin in the trunk of a car (in the hot weather) for several days, in the rafters of my garage for several days, in the oven at 200° for different lengths of time. Overall, I've had the best results using a crock pot. It's best to check out the temperature, so if you have a meat thermometer put it in the crock pot and change the setting as needed to reach a constant temperature of about 150°. Once you know where to set it to obtain that temperature, it seems to work best, put a tin or two or three or whatever different tobaccys in the crock pot and forget about it for at least 8 hours - 10 to 12 is even better. It works wonders with virginia and virginia/perique tobaccos. I've tried it with English blends but the results are questionable, at least for me.

JohnnyFlake, 2004-06-17
In early 2005, this topic came up again -- pertaining specifically to sealed tins! Fred Hanna started the discussion with his "220 for 220" method...

Over the past month or so, I have been experimenting with a different tobacco treatment. I say it's new only because I do not know of anyone who has done it in quite this way. This method may not be new at all but here it is, and I believe I am on to something. BUT TRY THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!
The technique is limited in application, but results so far have been exciting, for me, but I am still experimenting. It's quite simple. I call the process, "220 for 220." I have used this mostly on Virginia (and some English) tobaccos up to this point but intend to try it with more Virginia and English blends soon. Here's what I have been doing. As I said, it's quite simple, really.
I take the ENTIRE TIN, UNOPENED and STILL SEALED, of a Virginia or English tobacco, REMOVE THE PLASTIC TOP and place it in the oven for 2 hrs and 20 mins, at a temperature of 220°. I do not remove the label as this temp is too cold to set the paper on fire. Some tins swell and expand at the lid, but they seem to reduce to normal size, or nearly so, after cooling. So far, McClelland, Rattray's, McCranie's, and Pease tins have not popped open (with the exception of 1 tin of St. James Woods). The tall tins tend to hold their seal throughout the process. THE FLAT TINS, such as Escudo and Solani DO POP THEIR SEAL BUT THE RESULT IS STILL POSITIVE, for me, at least, as the tobacco inside does not dry out or become "roasted." After cooling for a few hours, I remove the tobac from the baked tin and place it in a separate container.
THE RESULTS? This process seems to change the tobacco in such a way as to, like stoving, make the tobac more dark in color, and makes it smoke more mellow, smooth, and often more sweet. Several experienced pipe smoking friends who have smoked tins thus treated agree with this assessment.
Try it with a tangy, sharp 2003 or 2004 Christmas Cheer and see what happens. This method made a tin full of the current version of McCranie's Red Ribbon smoke downright heavenly. And with the McClelland's, the vinegary ketchup smell reduces significantly, just as it does with aging. And it made a tin of Rattray's Marlin Flake smell like oatmeal raisin cookies (must be some topping they put on it, that I was previously unaware of), but the topping seemed to meld nicely with the tobacco. I have not done this with aromatics and probably will not.

Fred Hanna, 2005-01-28
Okay, I'm finished (220 for 220). The 220 for 220 Red Flake is a deeper red than the fresh tin. Much of the sharpness is gone and it's somewhat smoother. The flavor is different, not necessarily better or worse, just different. Only time will tell if I'll try this again, but I'm sure I'll enjoy this tin.

Steven Fowler, 2005-01-29
For me, this is not meant to be a substitute for aging, but merely another way to enjoy young tobacco without having to pay top dollar for the old stuff. I love Virginias but I don't care for that tangy sharp taste. I love English blends but I don't care for the rough taste that many of them have before aging. This method seems to diminish the tang and roughness and that makes me a happy guy. I would only do this to a tobacco that I believe would benefit by it. It's that simple.

Fred Hanna, 2005-01-29
I thought of [how this method will never replace long-term aging], but it shouldn't matter if you immediately open the tin. I think the idea is to make unaged tobacco taste better for immediate enjoyment.

Steven Fowler, 2005-01-29
I am smoking a bowl full of the 220 treated Half and Half now. The tobacco seems to be more mellow and flavourful than the same tobacco before 220 treatment. I will use this method again in the future. I really think that it helped smooth and mellow this Va/Burley/Perique mixture.

Lannes Johnson, 2005-01-30
Well, I've completed my experiment. I had some tins of Haddo's on hand, and as I posted last night, I baked one of them at 220° for 2:20. I opened two tins today and smoked samples from the baked tin and from an unbaked. Both tins have the same date stamp of 12/15/04.
The first thing that I noticed when I opened the baked tin was the different tin aroma. It has a deep almost chocolaty tobacco smell. Not very much left of the fig & raisin aroma that I'm used to. Comparing it to the unbaked tin, it is much more mellow and sweet. The colors are not that much different. In the baked, there is a noticeable darkening compared to the unbaked, but not as much as I was expecting.
I smoked the baked Haddo's this morning, and it was wonderful. It was mellow, sweet, and noticeably different! And best of all, no "brightness" in the flavor! I puffed hard to see if it would bite, but it didn't. It got hot and didn't taste that great, but no bite! I set it down and let it cool and re-lit. It was a very nice mellow smoke to almost the bottom. The flavor was much "deeper" if that makes any sense.
I am now half way through the bowl of unbaked Haddo's in the same pipe as this morning, and boy, what a difference! For one thing, there's that Virginia "brightness". Just a bit of tangy harshness that you have to be careful puffing to avoid. And the harshness is just a fast puff or two away. The flavor while good is not near as good as in the baked. I would say that your process resulted in a very definite improvement in newly tinned Haddo's.

Rad Davis, 2005-01-31
[Responding to reports that certain tid lids go "pop!" in the oven...] Keep the temperatrure of the oven between 170° and 180°F. Shouldn't have any popping then.

Craig Tarler, 2005-01-30

 
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chuckw

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 7, 2009
679
13
My one and only experience with "cooking" tobacco was to microwave some Black Irish Twist. I did it to dry the tobacco to something I didn't have to constantly relight. I ened up giving it three treatments at 10 seconds each. The tobacco dried nicely but lost that charred beef flavor I liked. The tobacco was flat and uninteresting. That experience has stopped me from trying cooking tobacco again.

 
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fred

Lifer
Mar 21, 2010
1,509
4
The temperature, the length of time and the heat source seem to be the

differences in methods mentioned so far. I've also heard of using a crock

pot, but have little knowledge of this method. Although I've used heat to

speed up the hydration of blends, both by steam and use of a microwave with

a damp towel, the method of tin baking is different and so are the results.

To me, it seems that temperatures higher than the 190 deg F. would have greater

risk of changing the character of the blend, instead of smoothing out the

sharp bite of bright Virginias in the blend components, so this is what appealed

to me. Indeed, these are the types of blends that I've tried this with, such

as Peter Heinrich's No. 30. I can't say that it's like aging a blend and

have no idea if this is speeding up the fermentation, serving to marry the blend

components or both. My limited experience has been with sealed tins and the

results have been good. I don't think that it would be a good thing for just

any blend, as I prefer either age or a good pressing for most of the blends I

smoke. It is a viable alternative for blends that have the reputation of burning

hot, and could be a useful method of smoothing out these tobaccos to suit

personal taste... It's doubtful that tin baking would do much to change a blend

that I don't like, as the effects are not enough to alter the basic character

of the components. I have reservations about using higher temperatures.

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,641
Chicago, IL
I've also heard of using a crock pot, but have little knowledge of this method.

From JohnnyFlake, above: Use meat thermometer to find a setting that produces 150°F. Put tin(s) in the pot for 8 to as much as 12 hrs. (This is probably more practical than keeping a conventional oven on for 12 hrs.)

 

fred

Lifer
Mar 21, 2010
1,509
4
Cortezattic, have you tried any of these methods?

If so, what were your results?

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,641
Chicago, IL
Fred asked:
have you tried any of these methods?
No, I just posted the FAQ quote because the thread you started is one of the more interesting topics in our hobby. I figured that you were already familiar with those opinions, but others might like to know what's been previously discussed.

I don't think I'll try anything along these lines in the foreseeable future because I still have about 3,000 blends to taste before I die -- a dozen or so of which are aging slowly in tins and Mason jars.
BTW, of the 5 slowly aged bulk tobaccos that I did break into, only one, McClelland 5100, showed enough improvement to justify the 2 yr. wait. I have since subscribed to the Charles Rattray theory: "Buy it and smoke it. Then buy some more."

 

python

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 8, 2009
3,756
7,284
Maryland
pipesmagazine.com
Kevin and I talked briefly about this with Fred Hanna at the Chicago Show this year. It sounds interesting, but I have not tried it yet.
One thing to remember if you are thinking about doing this is; remove the plastic lid from the tin before putting it into the oven or it will melt. I know that this sounds like it should go without saying, but sometimes in an excited rush, people have the tendency to forget the simple things, lol.

 

fred

Lifer
Mar 21, 2010
1,509
4
Yes, I have read about the methods that you've cited, but not tried them

out. Fred Hanna's approach appealed as it seemed the most cautious approach

of the group. He also discussed the use of Mason jars, and stated that he

left the lid on, as a seal in his report on stoving Lancer's Slices. Like

most people, I don't want to loose a blend that I enjoy to experiment, so I

take the more cautious approach.

 
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