The Real Frog Morton

crashthegrey · Jan 3, 2019

Who was the real Frog Morton? P&C claims that it is named after a place in the Shire from Tolkien, Mary McNiel admits that Barry Levin named it, and she imagined that Frog Morton was a Victorian frog. Then wolflarsen posts this:

I have to wonder if Mary or Barry subconsciously remembered this book when dreaming up the character and/or name, or if it is a complete coincidence. And I somehow doubt that it is named after Tolkien, unless by accident.

sasquatch · Jan 3, 2019

You'd have to see the publication date on that book, I suppose, to see "which came first. But Lord of the Rings was published in 1954, and yes, Frogmorton is explicitly mentioned as a place (a village in the west part of the shire if I remember rightly... but it's not important).
So this name has been in use for a long time, and obviously wasn't invented by anyone with respect to the tobacco. Accidentally remembered...I would believe.

Chasing Embers · Jan 3, 2019

It appears to have been published in 1955.

http://www.marywardbooks.com/show_book.php?isbn=MW001765488

crashthegrey · Jan 3, 2019

Yeah, the book was published in 1955, it seems to be a complete coincidence between this book and Tolkien. I just wonder if one or both had any influence on the tobacco, whether purposeful or accidental. And the fact that there is a frog dressed up on this novel was just a very amusing coincidence.

retrogrouch · Jan 3, 2019

I suspect there was some popular influence in the clothing from our friend Toad of Toad’s Hall as well. Semper Bufo!

olkofri · Jan 3, 2019

You also have to keep in mind that a book's publication has little to do with the ideas therein. Tolkien started thinking up Middle Earth way before Lord of the Rings was published.
Heck, I'm busy right now trying to finally finish a book whose story I outlined ~18 years ago.

crashthegrey · Jan 3, 2019

Thanks dfo. It would seem likely if he had multiple Middle Earth references. I had not looked into that. Now the question is if Mary had some unconscious link back to this book in an unrelated crazy love triangle of inspirations. Heh.

pipehunter · Jan 3, 2019

I believe Frogmorton is mentioned in The Hobbit, published in 1937, for what it’s worth.

olkofri · Jan 3, 2019

It's mentioned in The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey movie.
Canonical references to it point to the LOTR books, however: Frogmorton (place).

pipehunter · Jan 3, 2019

I've never seen The Hobbit movie (except the animated one in the 70s). Thought I recalled it mentioned in passing in the book, but it's possible I misremember. I've never gone looking for it specifically.
Your point is well taken. In either case, it obviously doesn't become important until The Return of the Kind.

olkofri · Jan 3, 2019

I briefly grabbed my copy of The Hobbit and did a quick search. Couldn't find Frogmorton in the section where the geography of the Shire is relevant, but that's not to say it ain't there. Skimming ain't reading.

pipehunter · Jan 4, 2019

@olkofri - I expect you are right. I am probably just misremembering it. It's been a while.
@crashthegrey - That cover is great. I'd love to see the illustrations in the book.

pipehunter · Jan 4, 2019

PS: I don't know if it was mentioned, but Shepard was also the illustrator of Wind in the Willows, so the resemblance to Mr Toad makes sense....

aquadoc · Jan 4, 2019

From http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Frogmorton

Install

THE ONE WIKI TO RULE THEM ALL
THE ONE WIKI TO RULE THEM ALL

Frogmorton
FrogmortonLOTRO.jpg

Frogmorton as depicted in The Lord of the Rings Online.

Frogmorton was a village located in the Eastfarthing region of The Shire.
It was located on the Great East Road between the Three Farthing Stone and Whitfurrows. Its best known feature was The Floating Log inn. A short distance to the north lay a place where The Water broke into two streams, and in the middle was a watery marsh-like place, which may have been responsible for Frogmorton's name "Frog Marsh".[1]Bilbo Baggins claims to have walked from Hobbiton to Frogmorton in The Hobbit.

georgebmcclelland · Jan 4, 2019

Its best known feature was The Floating Log inn.

This excerpt from Tolkien immediately jumped out in my mind when I saw this thread, and here it is! The original Frog Morton "Frog on a Log" tin art has always seemed to me adequate proof of the genuine Tolkien-worship of the blend.

georgebmcclelland · Jan 4, 2019

Plus, the frog on the log, himself, is quite clearly dressed in traditional hobbit attire.

crashthegrey · Jan 4, 2019

Shepard was also the illustrator of Wind in the Willows

This actually makes a lot of sense. It is quite a curious tie between all of these things.

olkofri · Jan 4, 2019

Bilbo Baggins claims to have walked from Hobbiton to Frogmorton in The Hobbit.

Again, this happens in the movie, namely the scene where Bilbo catches up with the dwarves in the forest; there he mentions about doing his fair share of walking "even got as far as Frogmorton once". [@ 43:14 in the extended version]
This is one of those places where Peter Jackson took a mile in his artistic licence: this doesn't happen in the book. In the book Bilbo meets up with the dwarves at an inn, and Frogmorton is never mentioned.

lawdawg · Jan 4, 2019

This excerpt from Tolkien immediately jumped out in my mind when I saw this thread, and here it is! The original Frog Morton "Frog on a Log" tin art has always seemed to me adequate proof of the genuine Tolkien-worship of the blend.

+1
I always thought of it as being intentionally / admittedly Tolkien-inspired, in one way or another. The old Frog himself is pretty much dressed like a Hobbit on most of the tin art for the various blends.

wolflarsen · Jan 6, 2019

The Real Frog Morton

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