Snobbery....

flanative · Sep 6, 2010

I smoke pipes. And cigars. Something Ive noticed of late is a trend towards snobbery in the pipe smoking community not unlike the snobbery which infects the cigar community to such a large extent. Yes, there has always and will always be a degree of snobbishness but it has never, until lately, been so pronounced. This is disturbing.
Every "clique" with which Ive been involved over the years has suffered from this affliction ... some more so than others, but it has never ended well no matter the enterprise. Lately, it seems that pipe smoking which has for so long been a comparatively harmless pastime of the common man and the "upper crust" alike has increasingly been overtaken by individuals who have made a sport of looking down their collective noses at those less worthy individuals who, for whatever reason, attempt to enjoy pipes not emblazoned with the venerated names so well known to most of us.
I myself have been guilty of some level of snobbishness. This cannot continue. If if does we will soon see our beloved pastime fade away even faster than it already is!

As of yesterday I gave my brother the 4 Dunhills and 2 Petersons that I been so proud of for so long. From this point on it will be GOOD pipes, not necessarily expensive one. To be totally honest, My old Grabow Silver Duke smokes just as good as the Dunhill Cumberland that I just gave away! I can admit that now!

kcvet67 · Sep 6, 2010

Very well put, flanative.
Since we're now facing a concerted effort to stamp out tobacco use, I think it's important that ALL smokers, not just pipe smokers or cigar smokers, need to realize that we have to put aside pettiness and fight together to maintain our right to continue to make our own choices instead of letting a "Nanny Government" make them for us. Benjamin Franklin's statement, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately" is just as true today as it was in 1776.
I think that one of the reasons that we have seen legislation that is targeted at one group at a time rather than the smoking community in general is that the "Smoke Nazis" believe (rightly, to an alarming degree) that many will think "Well, they're only taxing RYO smokers, that doesn't affect me".
"In Germany they first came for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me —

and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-Pastor Martin Niemöller

nameshy · Sep 6, 2010

....in the eye of the beholder?

flanative · Sep 6, 2010

Kcvet67 wrote ....." Benjamin Franklin's statement, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately" is just as true today as it was in 1776....."
This is it in a nut shell!

dd951 · Sep 6, 2010

Very well said flanative

admin · Sep 6, 2010

I am very much against snobbery, whether it be pipes, cigars, wine or anything else.
It seems to me like the first two posts here are talking about two different things though. There is pipe snobbery such as someone with the idea that if you are smoking Prince Albert in a Dr. Grabow, you are a lower class citizen in the pipe world than someone smoking 30-year old Balkan Sobranie in a Dunhill Root Briar.
That is one thing.
It is another thing when someone has an attitude like, "screw those nasty cigarette smokers and tax the heck out of them, but don't tax me because I am a pipe smoker".
The first example, I am completely against and the policy of this website is that we welcome all with one exception - we do not welcome pipe or pipe tobacco snobs.
If you are smoking any kind of pipe and any kind of pipe tobacco, you are considered part of the pipe community here. Although, I do not plan on giving away any of my Dunhill pipes anytime soon.
Today I smoked a $9.95 Lucienne Pipe and Sir Walter Raleigh Aromatic. I'm not giving that one away either. LOL.
On the second one, my right hand man Bob will tell you about the perils of the Self Segregation of Smokers.
I don't disagree completely, but I do struggle with it sometimes.
I don't think that any personal lifestyle choice should be attempted to be controlled through legislation and taxation.
I do have a problem when public perception has "Luxury Tobacco" lumped in with mass-market cigarettes, which are not even close to being the same thing or even consumed for the same purpose.
That becomes a bigger challenge when we stand shoulder to shoulder with cigarette smokers. So I am torn on the second issue here.
PipesMagazine.com is devoted to the growth of the pipe smoking and collecting hobby, and there is no room for snobbery in that scenario.
We want new guys to try it and not be afraid to participate in a community and ask questions, and not be ashamed about what they may be smoking.
There are no dumb questions and if you are enjoying it, then you are doing it right.

fred · Sep 6, 2010

I have also seen the results of both elitism and antielitism, neither of which

is good. Being what we are, we all tend to promote what we like, being convinced

that others should and will agree. Where the friction and conflict starts is

with denigration of all else that is not one's particular personal preference.

If a group is to prosper and grow, diversity must not only be tolerated, it must

be encouraged. This is the strength and value of any effort that seeks to share

information and experience. The beauty of the Pipe and tobacco experience is that

it's really all about personal choice, so it's to your advantage to know as much

as you can about what the choices are. People do not freely share, if they feel

the constraint of the tyranny of the majority. Let's face it, Pipe smoking is

about personal pleasure. It becomes something else when it serves as a vehicle

for competition. It really doesn't matter if a guy wants to crow about his new

high grade Pipe or budget Pipe. Personal preference and budget constraints guide

us all, which is certainly reflected in the vast array of Pipes and tobaccos in the

marketplace... Personal choice becomes perverted when it serves to signify status

and self worth, whether it's costly or not, whether it's widely available or not,

and whether it's popular or not. The celebration of our culture of the Pipe is

about the pleasures to be found for the individual. It's not about who's got the

most, the biggest, the most expensive or who's the most frugal. The best I can

determine is that's it's supposed to be fun and contagious.

ernest · Sep 6, 2010

I don't have much to add here but thought it to be a very interesting topic and am enjoying it.

collindow · Sep 6, 2010

I try not too be snobbish; which is pretty easy for me, seeing as I have two pipes from ebay, with a third one on the way (all for 21.50 or less, shipped) and a cheap B&M unknown company briar.

I have a problem with tobacco snobbery, but so far I can keep that under control. I don't know for how much longer I'll be able to do that lol.

I don't even look down on cig smokers too much ha ha.

hauntedmyst · Sep 7, 2010

What circles are you running in where there are enough pipe smokers to actually single out pipe snobs? I have a hard time enough finding fellow pipe smokers let alone finding snobs among them.
I smoke primarily Dunhills, Upshalls and Castellos. I love them and make no apology for them. I decided long ago that that for me, life is too short to smoke pipes with putty in them. That being said, I don't look down on anyone smoking a Grabow and I hope someone smoking a Larsen, Chonowitsch or Bo Nordh would not look down on me. We all work hard for our pipe collections no matter what the cost and at the end of the day, we're all just sucking on a stick with a ball of fire in it.

Npw I have to go off ad mumble about not having a brother who would give me 4 Dunhills and 2 Petersons. Damn family tree.

surfmac211 · Sep 7, 2010

I'm with haunted in the sense that I haven't seen the snobbery due to the fact that I probably only personally know 15 pipe smokers aside from being on this website. I love smoking pipes and I have also become a fan of collecting pipes for my personal taste. One of the reasons I stuck with pipe smoking over cigars is due to the aesthetics of all the different pipes. I have multiple Dr. Grabows and they are great little smokers, but if you were to hold a Grabow up next to a Peterson and ask which would I like to have, you better believe almost anyone would pick the Peterson. When I first went to purchase my first pipe and I asked what I should be looking for I was told pick whatever is appealing to you. That philosophy is still the same one you will get today, and see no problem if you enjoy a $1,000 dollar pipe or a $10 eBay pipe. Only buying pipes that are under $70 in my opinion isn't going to get anymore people joining the pipe community; it's doing what this site does and just encourage everyone to keep buying and trying different pipes and tobaccos, and answer any question(no matter how stupid) that someone asks to make them feel like one of the guys.

chuckw · Sep 7, 2010

Well said Flanative. Only one thing wrong with it. I can understand giving away the Dunhill's... But the Peterson's?

flanative · Sep 7, 2010

After this weekend, I really didnt want the Dunhills and Petersons anymore!
I was at 2 somewhat local pipe and cigar joints over the holiday and actually paid attention...It was sad.

Everyone was sitting around, puffing on their favorite high end myself included. In walks a guy and his son. The man was mid 30s the boy was about 10 or so.
He starts asking about the various tobaccos and everyone present proceeds to expound upon the virtues of their favorite blends. After about 20 minutes he asks our opinion about Half&Half. Fortunately for one other fellow and myself we enjoy Half&Half, the rest however, began ridicule OTC blends and the people who smoke them in such a fashion as to be quite embarassing, at least to me.

The fellow continued to look around a bit however, I did notice that when he was on the far side of the room he pulled something out of his pocket and tossed it into the trash.
After about 10 minutes of looking around he bought 2 ounces of one of the less expensive house blends. Venturing back our way he proudly pulled out a nice looking pipe and filled it with his new tobacco. Shortly after lighting up someone asked him what kind of pipe it was whereupon he responded with Dr Grabow Duke. Well, it really started then! I will not go into the details but it was very embarrassing! The man and his son left. As did I. I will not return. Oh yeah, the object that he tossed into the trash...a pouch of Half & Half .
If this type of behavior was an isolated incident it could be written off as a bad group but nothing more but this attitude, not necessarily the overt manifestation of it but the general "if its not pipe brand X or tobacco Y then you must certainly be a lesser man" attitude is becoming more and more apparent daily, both locally and on the internet.

Im sorry if I ruffled some feathers as this was not my intent. I just dont want to see this pastime go the way of so many others Ive seen.

admin · Sep 7, 2010

I don't think anyone's feathers got ruffled here Ed. This is an excellent, excellent topic that you started.
Your story is quite sad though. It is so, so disappointing.
If you are ever in such a fowl unfortunate situation like this again, please tell the poor guy to come join this site and hang out with the nice, welcoming, friendly, fun, intelligent pipe smokers ... and avoid the freakin' morons that he ran into in that shop - snobbish, retarded fools with zero self-esteem.

admin · Sep 7, 2010

It hadn't occurred to me until you guys mentioned it, but I can understand how many of you wouldn't have experienced pipe snobbery. Most of us don't usually run into a situation where there lots of other pipe smokers around.
Since I travel to lots of shops and lots of pipe shows, I immediately understood what flanative was talking about as I have run into people like this.
As a matter of fact, there is a good example on this site in the comments of one of our most popular articles. Look in the comments here - Pipes are for Everyone ... there's a lot of comments, so search that page for Dek.
Read the comment by Dek, and then read my response below it.
You can take my response as the policy of this website.

pstlpkr · Sep 7, 2010

I have been sitting on the sidelines and just "listening" to this discussion. I was online when it was first posted, and I thought this is going to be good.

Excellent thread Flantive!

By the by.... I keep Half and Half and other OTC's in my stash at all times.
Kevin, that link, just fits this pistol.

While a lot of us have a local pipe shop where we can socialize a lot of us do not. Any anti-OTC bias is totally un-cool, pipe brand snobbery again un-cool.
When I read Brazz's comments a little further down the comments:

Upon making a comment on not finding much comment on Dr. Grabows And if I was a real pipe smoker even though I didn’t have a Savinelli or Peterson and was promptley set straight that pipe snobbery didn’t exist on this site and a even cob was more than good enough. What did I do ?

Promptley went out and bought my color “Duke” and I’m going to be the proudest

flashiest pipe smoker on Matunuck Beach this summer.

If I remember correctly that "color Duke" was VERY COOL.

How's it smoke Brazz?

cortezattic · Sep 7, 2010

Fred for President !

papipeguy · Sep 7, 2010

Wow, great discussion. I have not ever experienced pipe snobbery; so I guess I'm lucky. I DO remember the level of snobbery achieved during the cigar boom. Guys would leave the label on just so you know they paid a ridiculous amount of money for a stick.

The greatest act of anti-snobbery I can cite is there's an older gentleman (in his 80's) who comes into the shop every 2 weeks and buys a dozen or so Montcristo's so he can chew them when he takes his walks. Never lights them; just chews. Other guys watch him do this and they're going out of their minds. I think he's cool. At his age he can do what pleases him.

I also concur that we all must stick together against the "Pleasure Nazis" (to quote Cigar Dave). Here in Pa the state has been pushing for higher taxes on cigars and pipe tobacco. So far, the tax has been held off. Our state has a fairly large tobacco contingent and thousands of jobs would be affected. Matter of time? Probably.

How many times have I walked around with an unlit pipe only to have some idiot wrinkle their nose about a smell that isn't there? I just smile and wish them a good day. Nothing pisses these people off more than when I exhibit good manners and a complete lack of interest in their opinions at the same time.

fred · Sep 7, 2010

I agree that the topic is not only relevant but necessary. These things don't

just pop up overnight. This kind of trash talk and self-serving attitude is an

insidious process that takes time to develop. It is wise to be aware of it and

to guard against it. What it does to a group is devastating and starts a process

of steady decline in membership and diversity. Yes, this topic should be

revisited more than once!

excav8tor · Sep 7, 2010

A very interesting reflection on people's perceptions of 'snobbishment'. The key to it is not as one might suspect 'snobbishment' but rather 'perception' since it is one's perception of pipes and pipe smoking that will potentially put each and everyone of us into that category of people.
A snob is someone who is of the opinion that some people are inherently inferior to him (or her) for any one of a multitude of reasons, including real or supposed wealth, intellect, education, ancestry, taste, beauty, etc. etc. and is merely a defensive expression of social insecurity.
I remember years ago that one of my Sergeant Majors in the Army (also an avid pipe smoker) once commented on opinions saying, "Opinions are like backside's lad. Everyone has one, but they should never be brought out in public".
As has been pointed out before, smoking (in general) is already under enough pressure from those who feel that it is their God given right to lead our lives for us, without having to deal with a pomposity of elitists as well.
I am new to this forum, but as an educated man I revel and bow down in reverence to the wealth of information, advice and comradeship that exists here. How could I ever be so vain to think that I might become snobbish about a hobby/pastime/indulgence that gives me, more than anything else, great pleasure?
I believe that a snob inside the man will disappear if they but sat back and contemplated our common bond, preferably with a full bowl.
I hope everyone here will agree with me when I say, what a great leveller pipe tobacco is amongst its users. It allows our thoughts to fly amongst the clouds whilst keeping our feet firmly on the ground.

Snobbery....

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