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Snobbery....

(70 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by flanative
  • Latest reply from Lawrence
  1. flanative

    flanative

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    I smoke pipes. And cigars. Something Ive noticed of late is a trend towards snobbery in the pipe smoking community not unlike the snobbery which infects the cigar community to such a large extent. Yes, there has always and will always be a degree of snobbishness but it has never, until lately, been so pronounced. This is disturbing.

    Every "clique" with which Ive been involved over the years has suffered from this affliction ... some more so than others, but it has never ended well no matter the enterprise. Lately, it seems that pipe smoking which has for so long been a comparatively harmless pastime of the common man and the "upper crust" alike has increasingly been overtaken by individuals who have made a sport of looking down their collective noses at those less worthy individuals who, for whatever reason, attempt to enjoy pipes not emblazoned with the venerated names so well known to most of us.

    I myself have been guilty of some level of snobbishness. This cannot continue. If if does we will soon see our beloved pastime fade away even faster than it already is!
    As of yesterday I gave my brother the 4 Dunhills and 2 Petersons that I been so proud of for so long. From this point on it will be GOOD pipes, not necessarily expensive one. To be totally honest, My old Grabow Silver Duke smokes just as good as the Dunhill Cumberland that I just gave away! I can admit that now!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. kcvet67

    kcvet67

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    Very well put, flanative.

    Since we're now facing a concerted effort to stamp out tobacco use, I think it's important that ALL smokers, not just pipe smokers or cigar smokers, need to realize that we have to put aside pettiness and fight together to maintain our right to continue to make our own choices instead of letting a "Nanny Government" make them for us. Benjamin Franklin's statement, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately" is just as true today as it was in 1776.

    I think that one of the reasons that we have seen legislation that is targeted at one group at a time rather than the smoking community in general is that the "Smoke Nazis" believe (rightly, to an alarming degree) that many will think "Well, they're only taxing RYO smokers, that doesn't affect me".

    "In Germany they first came for the Communists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

    Then they came for me —
    and by that time no one was left to speak up."
    -Pastor Martin Niemöller

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    Posted 4 years ago #
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    nameshy

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    ....in the eye of the beholder?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. flanative

    flanative

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    Kcvet67 wrote ....." Benjamin Franklin's statement, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately" is just as true today as it was in 1776....."

    This is it in a nut shell!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. dd951

    dd951

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    Very well said flanative

    Born Again Heathern
    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. admin

    Kevin

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    I am very much against snobbery, whether it be pipes, cigars, wine or anything else.

    It seems to me like the first two posts here are talking about two different things though. There is pipe snobbery such as someone with the idea that if you are smoking Prince Albert in a Dr. Grabow, you are a lower class citizen in the pipe world than someone smoking 30-year old Balkan Sobranie in a Dunhill Root Briar.

    That is one thing.

    It is another thing when someone has an attitude like, "screw those nasty cigarette smokers and tax the heck out of them, but don't tax me because I am a pipe smoker".

    The first example, I am completely against and the policy of this website is that we welcome all with one exception - we do not welcome pipe or pipe tobacco snobs.

    If you are smoking any kind of pipe and any kind of pipe tobacco, you are considered part of the pipe community here. Although, I do not plan on giving away any of my Dunhill pipes anytime soon.

    Today I smoked a $9.95 Lucienne Pipe and Sir Walter Raleigh Aromatic. I'm not giving that one away either. LOL.

    On the second one, my right hand man Bob will tell you about the perils of the Self Segregation of Smokers.

    I don't disagree completely, but I do struggle with it sometimes.

    I don't think that any personal lifestyle choice should be attempted to be controlled through legislation and taxation.

    I do have a problem when public perception has "Luxury Tobacco" lumped in with mass-market cigarettes, which are not even close to being the same thing or even consumed for the same purpose.

    That becomes a bigger challenge when we stand shoulder to shoulder with cigarette smokers. So I am torn on the second issue here.

    PipesMagazine.com is devoted to the growth of the pipe smoking and collecting hobby, and there is no room for snobbery in that scenario.

    We want new guys to try it and not be afraid to participate in a community and ask questions, and not be ashamed about what they may be smoking.

    There are no dumb questions and if you are enjoying it, then you are doing it right.

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    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. fred

    fred

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    I have also seen the results of both elitism and antielitism, neither of which
    is good. Being what we are, we all tend to promote what we like, being convinced
    that others should and will agree. Where the friction and conflict starts is
    with denigration of all else that is not one's particular personal preference.
    If a group is to prosper and grow, diversity must not only be tolerated, it must
    be encouraged. This is the strength and value of any effort that seeks to share
    information and experience. The beauty of the Pipe and tobacco experience is that
    it's really all about personal choice, so it's to your advantage to know as much
    as you can about what the choices are. People do not freely share, if they feel
    the constraint of the tyranny of the majority. Let's face it, Pipe smoking is
    about personal pleasure. It becomes something else when it serves as a vehicle
    for competition. It really doesn't matter if a guy wants to crow about his new
    high grade Pipe or budget Pipe. Personal preference and budget constraints guide
    us all, which is certainly reflected in the vast array of Pipes and tobaccos in the
    marketplace... Personal choice becomes perverted when it serves to signify status
    and self worth, whether it's costly or not, whether it's widely available or not,
    and whether it's popular or not. The celebration of our culture of the Pipe is
    about the pleasures to be found for the individual. It's not about who's got the
    most, the biggest, the most expensive or who's the most frugal. The best I can
    determine is that's it's supposed to be fun and contagious.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. ernest

    ernest

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    I don't have much to add here but thought it to be a very interesting topic and am enjoying it.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. collindow

    Collin Dow

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    I try not too be snobbish; which is pretty easy for me, seeing as I have two pipes from ebay, with a third one on the way (all for 21.50 or less, shipped) and a cheap B&M unknown company briar.
    I have a problem with tobacco snobbery, but so far I can keep that under control. I don't know for how much longer I'll be able to do that lol.
    I don't even look down on cig smokers too much ha ha.

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    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. hauntedmyst

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    What circles are you running in where there are enough pipe smokers to actually single out pipe snobs? I have a hard time enough finding fellow pipe smokers let alone finding snobs among them.

    I smoke primarily Dunhills, Upshalls and Castellos. I love them and make no apology for them. I decided long ago that that for me, life is too short to smoke pipes with putty in them. That being said, I don't look down on anyone smoking a Grabow and I hope someone smoking a Larsen, Chonowitsch or Bo Nordh would not look down on me. We all work hard for our pipe collections no matter what the cost and at the end of the day, we're all just sucking on a stick with a ball of fire in it.

    Npw I have to go off ad mumble about not having a brother who would give me 4 Dunhills and 2 Petersons. Damn family tree.

    A tattoo on a beautiful woman is like graffiti on a Ferrari.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. surfmac211

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    I'm with haunted in the sense that I haven't seen the snobbery due to the fact that I probably only personally know 15 pipe smokers aside from being on this website. I love smoking pipes and I have also become a fan of collecting pipes for my personal taste. One of the reasons I stuck with pipe smoking over cigars is due to the aesthetics of all the different pipes. I have multiple Dr. Grabows and they are great little smokers, but if you were to hold a Grabow up next to a Peterson and ask which would I like to have, you better believe almost anyone would pick the Peterson. When I first went to purchase my first pipe and I asked what I should be looking for I was told pick whatever is appealing to you. That philosophy is still the same one you will get today, and see no problem if you enjoy a $1,000 dollar pipe or a $10 eBay pipe. Only buying pipes that are under $70 in my opinion isn't going to get anymore people joining the pipe community; it's doing what this site does and just encourage everyone to keep buying and trying different pipes and tobaccos, and answer any question(no matter how stupid) that someone asks to make them feel like one of the guys.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. chuckw

    chuckw

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    Well said Flanative. Only one thing wrong with it. I can understand giving away the Dunhill's... But the Peterson's?

    I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. flanative

    flanative

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    After this weekend, I really didnt want the Dunhills and Petersons anymore!

    I was at 2 somewhat local pipe and cigar joints over the holiday and actually paid attention...It was sad.
    Everyone was sitting around, puffing on their favorite high end myself included. In walks a guy and his son. The man was mid 30s the boy was about 10 or so.

    He starts asking about the various tobaccos and everyone present proceeds to expound upon the virtues of their favorite blends. After about 20 minutes he asks our opinion about Half&Half. Fortunately for one other fellow and myself we enjoy Half&Half, the rest however, began ridicule OTC blends and the people who smoke them in such a fashion as to be quite embarassing, at least to me.
    The fellow continued to look around a bit however, I did notice that when he was on the far side of the room he pulled something out of his pocket and tossed it into the trash.

    After about 10 minutes of looking around he bought 2 ounces of one of the less expensive house blends. Venturing back our way he proudly pulled out a nice looking pipe and filled it with his new tobacco. Shortly after lighting up someone asked him what kind of pipe it was whereupon he responded with Dr Grabow Duke. Well, it really started then! I will not go into the details but it was very embarrassing! The man and his son left. As did I. I will not return. Oh yeah, the object that he tossed into the trash...a pouch of Half & Half .

    If this type of behavior was an isolated incident it could be written off as a bad group but nothing more but this attitude, not necessarily the overt manifestation of it but the general "if its not pipe brand X or tobacco Y then you must certainly be a lesser man" attitude is becoming more and more apparent daily, both locally and on the internet.
    Im sorry if I ruffled some feathers as this was not my intent. I just dont want to see this pastime go the way of so many others Ive seen.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. admin

    Kevin

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    I don't think anyone's feathers got ruffled here Ed. This is an excellent, excellent topic that you started.

    Your story is quite sad though. It is so, so disappointing.

    If you are ever in such a fowl unfortunate situation like this again, please tell the poor guy to come join this site and hang out with the nice, welcoming, friendly, fun, intelligent pipe smokers ... and avoid the freakin' morons that he ran into in that shop - snobbish, retarded fools with zero self-esteem.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. admin

    Kevin

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    It hadn't occurred to me until you guys mentioned it, but I can understand how many of you wouldn't have experienced pipe snobbery. Most of us don't usually run into a situation where there lots of other pipe smokers around.

    Since I travel to lots of shops and lots of pipe shows, I immediately understood what flanative was talking about as I have run into people like this.

    As a matter of fact, there is a good example on this site in the comments of one of our most popular articles. Look in the comments here - Pipes are for Everyone ... there's a lot of comments, so search that page for Dek.

    Read the comment by Dek, and then read my response below it.

    You can take my response as the policy of this website.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. pstlpkr

    Lawrence

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    I have been sitting on the sidelines and just "listening" to this discussion. I was online when it was first posted, and I thought this is going to be good.
    Excellent thread Flantive!
    By the by.... I keep Half and Half and other OTC's in my stash at all times.

    Kevin, that link, just fits this pistol.
    While a lot of us have a local pipe shop where we can socialize a lot of us do not. Any anti-OTC bias is totally un-cool, pipe brand snobbery again un-cool.

    When I read Brazz's comments a little further down the comments:

    Upon making a comment on not finding much comment on Dr. Grabows And if I was a real pipe smoker even though I didn’t have a Savinelli or Peterson and was promptley set straight that pipe snobbery didn’t exist on this site and a even cob was more than good enough. What did I do ?
    Promptley went out and bought my color “Duke” and I’m going to be the proudest
    flashiest pipe smoker on Matunuck Beach this summer.

    If I remember correctly that "color Duke" was VERY COOL.
    How's it smoke Brazz?


    "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill
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    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. cortezattic

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    Fred for President !

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    .
    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. papipeguy

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    Wow, great discussion. I have not ever experienced pipe snobbery; so I guess I'm lucky. I DO remember the level of snobbery achieved during the cigar boom. Guys would leave the label on just so you know they paid a ridiculous amount of money for a stick.
    The greatest act of anti-snobbery I can cite is there's an older gentleman (in his 80's) who comes into the shop every 2 weeks and buys a dozen or so Montcristo's so he can chew them when he takes his walks. Never lights them; just chews. Other guys watch him do this and they're going out of their minds. I think he's cool. At his age he can do what pleases him.
    I also concur that we all must stick together against the "Pleasure Nazis" (to quote Cigar Dave). Here in Pa the state has been pushing for higher taxes on cigars and pipe tobacco. So far, the tax has been held off. Our state has a fairly large tobacco contingent and thousands of jobs would be affected. Matter of time? Probably.
    How many times have I walked around with an unlit pipe only to have some idiot wrinkle their nose about a smell that isn't there? I just smile and wish them a good day. Nothing pisses these people off more than when I exhibit good manners and a complete lack of interest in their opinions at the same time.

    Blowin' smoke since 1970.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. fred

    fred

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    I agree that the topic is not only relevant but necessary. These things don't
    just pop up overnight. This kind of trash talk and self-serving attitude is an
    insidious process that takes time to develop. It is wise to be aware of it and
    to guard against it. What it does to a group is devastating and starts a process
    of steady decline in membership and diversity. Yes, this topic should be
    revisited more than once!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. excav8tor

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    A very interesting reflection on people's perceptions of 'snobbishment'. The key to it is not as one might suspect 'snobbishment' but rather 'perception' since it is one's perception of pipes and pipe smoking that will potentially put each and everyone of us into that category of people.

    A snob is someone who is of the opinion that some people are inherently inferior to him (or her) for any one of a multitude of reasons, including real or supposed wealth, intellect, education, ancestry, taste, beauty, etc. etc. and is merely a defensive expression of social insecurity.

    I remember years ago that one of my Sergeant Majors in the Army (also an avid pipe smoker) once commented on opinions saying, "Opinions are like backside's lad. Everyone has one, but they should never be brought out in public".

    As has been pointed out before, smoking (in general) is already under enough pressure from those who feel that it is their God given right to lead our lives for us, without having to deal with a pomposity of elitists as well.

    I am new to this forum, but as an educated man I revel and bow down in reverence to the wealth of information, advice and comradeship that exists here. How could I ever be so vain to think that I might become snobbish about a hobby/pastime/indulgence that gives me, more than anything else, great pleasure?

    I believe that a snob inside the man will disappear if they but sat back and contemplated our common bond, preferably with a full bowl.

    I hope everyone here will agree with me when I say, what a great leveller pipe tobacco is amongst its users. It allows our thoughts to fly amongst the clouds whilst keeping our feet firmly on the ground.

    "A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis
    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. flanative

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    It has taken me quite awhile to find this site and Im glad I did! Its gratifying to know that most folks in the pipe community are still like those here.
    Of course, Im still out of a few nice pipes! LOL!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. fred

    fred

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    Yes, it's a nice place to visit. Don't worry about the Pipes.
    The way the PAD runs wild around here, you're bound to find more...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. rlrideoutjr

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    This has been one of the most interesting topics I have read...I have really enjoyed everyone's comments....I am so glad to be a part of this group and look forward to seeing the discussions everyday!!

    A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way you look forward to the trip.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. dudleydipstick

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    Flanative...what a great thread you've began! Also, my condolences to both you and the gentleman in the smoke shop. (Particularly that Assholes couldn't refrain from being Assholes in front of him and his boy.)

    As far as pipe forums go, this is my favorite for several reasons. The main one is that the spirit here is to encourage others to enjoy their smoke with whatever means they have to do it and to give pointers on how they might go about getting there.

    There are some great members here that smoke different brands of tobaccos than I care for or a brand of pipe that I'd rather not buy (or even a different platform of computer), but the fact remains that I don't have their tastebuds, their taste in pipes, or their taste in how they want to go about running applications. That's all perfectly acceptable. That seems to be the thing that bonds us here and it's a great thing.

    Pipe smoking is sort of like reading a good book. You can read a great novel on yellowed pulp paper with ink that smudges. You can also read the same words from a book that has a cover that smells like calf skin, lays flat, has a built in ribbon bookmark, and has acid free pages that are a delight to touch. Either way, the same amount of enjoyment can be had.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. strongirish

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    There are some forums that take the snobbery thing to a whole new level. I have pipes that cost a pretty penney and pipes all the way down to Yeloow Bowls. If it smokes good, I smoke it. I do appreciate the artistry and wonderful grain patterns of nice pipes, and I have some because of this, but when it comes down to it, how it smokes is my number one factor.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. igloo

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    The idea is to smoke your pipe and enjoy what you smoke . Often the most expensive things in life are not the ones that are the best . I can be just as happy with a Cuban Trinidad or Swisher Sweet , A Dunhill or a Amphora , Some PA or Holger Danske .Life has little meaning unless it can be shared . On a trip to Napa Valley while at the Beringer winery the host said it best 'The best kind of wine to drink is the kind you like , so drink up we do not spit it back in the glass here ' how refreshing after a day with the snobs . Here is to life and sharing .

    “There was an awful suspicion in my mind that I'd finally gone over the hump, and the worst thing about it was that I didn't feel tragic at all, but only weary, and sort of comfortably detached.”
    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. juni

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    I don't see enough pipe smokers either to notice anyone being excluded. Our local BM is also nice to everyone - the owner will find just the right pipe for you. The first time I went there price wasn't discussed, instead he focused on what kind of pipe I need. (sadly I got it into my head that I had to get Squadron Leader although I never had tried latakia before. I still hate the taste of latakia because of that. Luckily he recommended some other tobaccos to try too or I would have quit pipes forever.)

    I do like well made pipes with a nice grain pattern and shape, because they are nice to look at and to hold.

    Posted 4 years ago #
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    nameshy

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    "There is no disputing about tastes."

    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. abecox

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    I always thought the rule was that you smoke what you like and like what you smoke?

    I mean in my direct circle of friends, I have a friend who smokes RYO Cigarettes, a Cigar smoker, one who smokes those little 'Clove Cigars' and I'm the token pipesmoker. There is always the quip or two on each other, but they're always in jest and in the name of good fun...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. storm

    storm

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    I've not met many in person, but the pipe smokers I have known have been true gentlemen. Somewhat eccentric, many of them, but always gentlemen and always interesting.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  31. flanative

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    You only get to be called "eccentric" if you make over 2 million a year...the rest of us are just weird! LOL!
    Ill be here all week1

    Posted 4 years ago #
  32. duncan

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    Man, I love this site. This topic has made me feel great about what I own. One day My wife will let me spend on a big dollar pipe, until then I will smoke what I have with pide and never leave them out in the cold. (except the dang Puff's with rhinestones)

    Why does it seem that todays youth has added lead paintchips to their daily diet!?!
    Posted 4 years ago #
  33. spacecowboy57

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    I don't own a single top brand pipe. I know if i did i would be quite proud of it and surely show it off. Either way, i own many pipes i do like and really don't care what the msrp was. one of my favorite pipes is a uniquely shaped dr grabow viscount i bought for 6 bucks an an antique shop.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  34. unclearthur

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    I own quite a few so called "expensive " pipes. Not one cost me over fifty dollars. I buy estates and some of the cheapest ones are the best smokers (he says while stuffing a yellow bole). My best pipe smoking buddy lives better than five hours away but when we get together we raise a real fog!

    If at first you don't succeed you are running about average.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  35. superdan

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    so far i have experienced no snobbery, especially not here! all i have so far is one 12 dollar no name briar, and a pack of captain black white, but i'm loving the fellowship and friendship of this pipe smoking community. you guys are great!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  36. menckenite

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    This happens with just about anything that gets popular: Coffee, wine, bands (well their earlier stuff was far supriour to ... blah, blah blah). I saw the same thing happen with beer. Substitue "Half/Half" of this story with Budweiser. I bet this last statement will stiffen a few necks.

    Pics of my pipes & stuff: http://photobucket.com/menckenite
    Posted 3 years ago #
  37. spacecowboy57

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    superdan, thats basically what i started with, i had a dr grabow and a pouch of cbw

    Posted 3 years ago #
  38. classicgeek

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    All pipes look the same in the dark.

    Simon

    Posted 3 years ago #
  39. bytor

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    LMAO Simon!

    Uh...err...what exactly are you doing to your pipes in the dark?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  40. hobie1dog

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    Most people on this planet suffer from the "Illusion of Superiority" which causes 90% of our problems. When we learn that we are all "One" and are equal, then we can have hope. We spend 900 BILLION on warfare, each YEAR, which is more than enough to provide food, clothing, and very nice shelter for everyone on the planet, but we are all consumed with competition which has evolved from a complete brainwashing. We put everything into social groups, all competing with each other, and are constantly told that we have to be "winners" with no concern over anyone in a lower group. Religions are the worst, claiming the title of having killed more people over God than all other reasons. Like Rodney King once said, " Why can't we all just get along?"

    Ok, off my soapbox....LOL...that was fun.

    Earth: The Insane Asylum of the Universe. Nowhere else could things be more messed up.

    Does a culture based on separation and competition, of scientific sophistication and mideval religion, offer happiness even as it ravishes the Earth that sustains it?
    Posted 3 years ago #
  41. explodingpenguin

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    I have already given this group of pipe smokers the highest honor I can. I made my fiance, who has just began to get into our hobby, join to meet all of you. I can not think of a better group of people to help her find her own way of enjoying pipes. I know the people on here are wonderful and truly just want to help as many others as possible enjoy our little slice of heaven. No matter the method they find most enjoyable.

    Thanks to all of you for being so awesome. I wish I could fill the local B&Ms with all of you. We are looking to join our local pipe club and I will be overjoyed if they are even half as welcoming as you all have been

    Posted 3 years ago #
  42. hauntedmyst

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    Most people on this planet suffer from the "Illusion of Superiority" which causes 90% of our problems.

    Hobie, this is why I think you are a genius! Now if the other 8 people in the room with me would just realize I am better than them in every way and just give up trying to one up me, most of our problems would cease.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  43. searock

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    S.N.O.B. I believe it came from the French for "sons of the nobility".

    I don't exactly know how to approach this. I don't want to name names of give away who I'm talking about... Here goes. I've seen one "extreme" example of this in my almost 50 years of pipe smoking. There is a pipe maker, a one man operation, very well known and very talented. When he started out he was modest, friendly and a generally nice guy, but as time went on and more and more people told him how great his pipes were and how wonderful his work was, he changed. To make a long story short he turned into an arrogant, self centered ass. I guess you could call it a snob. He no longer has friend but "deciples", who worship him for his pipe making ability. Some afternoons he sits in a local pipe shop and holds "court". His deciples hang on his every word, be it about pipes or anything else. It's discusting.

    I was a friend of his once, but no more. Many years ago he had the nerve to ask (demand?) that I get rid of all my pipes and only smoke ones he made. I gracefully declined. After that he became cold, then down right hostile toward me. We no longer associate. Too bad.

    This is an extreme example of letting your ego run wild. Being proud of your ability or pipe collection is one thing, being an arrogant snob about it is something else.

    "All of my heroes are dead."

    Posted 3 years ago #
  44. pstlpkr

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    From the newbie with his first No Name or Cob, to the old farts that have a wall of beautifully sculptured briar and meerschaum and that special place of honor for his first No Name or Cob; I'm glad we all have this special place to share our little slice of Heaven and that we have no snobbery to check at the door.

    I have no point to make with the above. However; I appreciate and am grateful for that place and friends with which I can express no point at all.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  45. colonelmcmuf

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    Being a man who enjoys it when someone compliments me on my pipes I make it a point to compliment others when I see them smoking. regardless of 'what' they're smoking.

    "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. Gotta kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight!"
    Posted 3 years ago #
  46. ernest

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    searock------I know a shoe maker (and repairer) who has taken on that exact attitude over time with all his customers.It really leaves your mind in a state of wonderment for awhile.It makes me wonder if there was an unwritten rule that when you started doing business with someone back in the older days,they relied on you dealing with them only.I wonder if they are unable to adjust to such a competitive market that might be taking business away from them.I'm sure Al Capone would have had someone shot. Just guessing.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  47. flanative

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    "....they relied on you dealing with them only...."

    Yep! There use to be a thing known as customer service, THAT is how you gained and kept customers. Treat a man right and he will come back....tomorrow, next week , next year... not anymore!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  48. gunner777

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    This is just the type of subject that made me want to join up a few days ago. Back in the mid to late 90's I worked in the pipe business for a now defunct company called R&E pipes. I can remember sitting there doing updates to the website and listening to phone calls from people saying they wanted nothing under a certain price range so tell me what's around $500. Ah S Bang$900 I'll take it. Yep my friends will be jealous. This just one example of many.
    It drove me crazy then and still does. Do I have Dunhills? Yes I do but I also collect old Kaywoodies that have some wonderful old wood. Mastercraft pipes you betcha. If you can afford the high dollar pipes and enjoy them for what they are and don't consider yourself better than the next guy because you smoke high ends great. Just don't wave that high dollar in my face and think your better, smarter etc.
    There are a ton of great pipes out there that don't say Dunhill, S Bang etc. Thanks for having a forum where snobbery is not allowed:-)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  49. bubbadreier

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    Well welcome gunner! It just goes to show you that there are different classes of people as well as pipes!

    Mason jars and bale top jars, mason jars and bale top jars.... that is all!

    "There’s truth in the statement that pipe tobacco will never be any less expensive than it is today, so think of your cellar as a cost averaged investment" - G.L. Pease
    Posted 3 years ago #
  50. gunner777

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    Thank you sir I'm very glad to be here!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  51. unclearthur

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    Good to have you here Gunner. I enjoy the mellow folks here a lot.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  52. juozapas

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    What...?? Who said that..??

    "If light travels faster than sound, is this why some people appear bright until you hear them speak?"
    Posted 3 years ago #
  53. ps27

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    This thread made me decide to go ahead and sign up rather than just keep passing though. Good to hear you're taking this stand.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  54. dudleydipstick

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    ps27,

    Nice to have you here. Welcome to the forums!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  55. ps27

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    Thank you.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  56. flanative

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    Norman Rockwell!!
    Why didnt I think of him over in the "Guess this pipe smoker" thread!!!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  57. docgarr

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    I would hate to be accused of being a pipe snob. My wife accuses me of being one. I think that the "pipe world" has many dimensions to it. I would like all pipe smokers to explore the different dimensions of it. If you go to a pipe show, you will experience snobbery. I just came back from the CORPS show. On Sunday morning a guy who makes pipes on the side was talking to me about snobbery--how difficult it was for him to get the ear of certain people at the show. I've experienced myself as I see all the big names at the show. I'm pretty much ignored by them. But to witness their work first hand is an experience open to anyone. I would like to see people explore the varieties of pipes and tobacco out there. The pipe world is too small to have this snobbery. I do own some very nice pipes, but I would never look down on pipers who are not as fortunate as I am to own those pipes. Working in a tobacco shop, I encourage everyone who seems interested to buy a pipe and some tobacco. I usually suggest a corn cob to start with. I hope they will grow in the hobby. I hope they will join a pipe club, go to a show, participate in a smoking contest, try making their own pipe (something I could never do), and explore. I still respect them if they fail in their quest. If they find the smoke too burning or too harsh or just don't like trying to keep their pipe lit. The goal, I think, is to find out what the pipe world is all about in all of its dimensions.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  58. dudleydipstick

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    Doc Garr,

    Those were some poignant words. Many of us should be so lucky as to have someone like you at their B&M.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  59. admin

    Kevin

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    At least Bob and I didn't ignore you Doc.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  60. excav8tor

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    ernest, strange that you talk about a shoemaker because according to The Oxford English Dictionary:
    Snob...

    People often claim that this word originated as an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase sine nobilitate, meaning 'without nobility' (i.e. 'of a humble social background'). Various accounts of the circumstances in which this abbreviation was supposedly used have been put forward: on lists of names of Oxford or Cambridge students; on lists of ships' passengers (to make sure that only the best people dined at the captain's table); on lists of guests to indicate that no title was required when they were announced.

    The theory is ingenious but highly unlikely. The word snob is first recorded in the late 18th century as a term for a shoemaker or his apprentice. At about this time it was indeed adopted by Cambridge students, but they didn't use it to refer to students who lacked a title or were of humble origins; they used it generally of anyone who was not a student.

    By the early 19th century snob was being used to mean a person with no 'breeding', both the honest labourers who knew their place, and the vulgar social climbers who copied the manners of the upper classes. In time the word came to describe someone with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.

    It's quite possible that the phrase sine nobilitate may have appeared in one context or another, but it is difficult to see why it would have given rise to a word for a shoemaker.

    So ernest, you could quite easily call your shoemaker associate a snob!!!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  61. python

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    +1 Doc, very well said.

    I am glad that Doc didn't ignore me when he turned the wrong way down that road! LMAO!

    "When the Government Fears the People, There is Liberty;
    When the People Fear the Government, There is Tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
    Posted 3 years ago #
  62. glpease

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    I read Searock's comment with interest. Unfortunately, I can think of several makers who would fit his description, not all of them recently grown. It's a shame, really. In the end, those of us who are in the public eye, whether pipe makers or tobacco blenders or retailers or pipe journalists, are just people doing something we love, and hoping that others might enjoy it, too. We put passion into our work, but for any of us to separate ourselves because of a tiny little bit of celebrity is folly.

    I know quite a few of the world's pipe makers, and, fortunately, I can say that the phenomenon Searock describes is far from universal. I could rattle off a list of names of truly exceptional makers who are just delightful, wonderful, kind, generous people, who know full well that they put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us.

    Celebrity can be seductive, and some will fall into its trap. Hopefully, they'll grow out of it...

    On the subject of snobbishness, and perhaps more importantly, exclusionary behaviour, I've seen it on both sides of the railway tracks. Most of us in the pipe world are welcoming, enthusiastic folks who will gladly help a newcomer make good choices, build a collection, cultivate an understanding of what he's smoking. Sadly, some are less egalitarian. But, for every high-end guy who insists that if you're not smoking a $1k+ pipe, you cannot possibly be getting the full experience of pipe smoking, there's a guy who says that only an idiot would pay that kind of money for a pipe, and that his cheap pipe du jour is the equal of any. Neither attitude serves to engender good will in our hobby.

    Some see the enthusiasm of the high-grade collectors as snobbishness, but that's not always the case. For the most part, the uber-collectors are just excited about their pipes. They have the ability to buy them, and love to share their latest finds. We all do! Most of the guys I know get just as excited about someone's old GBD or Comoy as they do about the latest straight grain Framussenellotomison. For the most part, pipe guys are really a great bunch.

    I've known a few collectors who come off as pretentious, but really aren't, and just suffer from some social awkwardness. Fortunately, the real snobs are uncommon. They exist, for sure, but not in the numbers they may appear to at first glance. It's often just misunderstanding that leads to false conclusions, so let's be careful not to let our own prejudices and intolerances create any additional divisiveness. We need to band together as pipe smokers and enthusiasts, no matter the pipes we smoke, or the tobaccos we smoke in them.

    (And, just for the record, a lot of the snobs at the shows snub me, too. Don't take it personally. ;))

    Read my columns in Pipes Magazine: Out of the Ashes & Ask G.L. Pease
    Posted 3 years ago #
  63. glpease

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    Gunner777, I remember R&E Pipes well! Nice to "see" you again.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  64. admin

    Kevin

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    Quite astute observations and good points Greg. I may have been guilty of misjudging someone as a snob, but I'm not sure. I am sure that I will try to not come to false conclusions though.

    Not to brag, but I just got a Framussenellotomison, unsmoked.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  65. searock

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    Not to brag, but I just got a Framussenellotomison, unsmoked.

    Ok, I'll bite. What the he-- is that?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  66. glpease

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    Searock, it's just a name I made up.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  67. bubbadreier

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    Well Kevin I just got Framussenellotomison Extra so you aren't so special anymore!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  68. cortezattic

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    Bubba, LMAO.
    Nice post Mr. Pease. I think a lot of pipe smokers mistake me for a snob because I don't smoke aromatics; but it's just a communications problem. I enjoy the racy taste of natural tobaccos too much to confound my senses with other flavorings. (Truth be known I enjoy an occasional bowl of 1-Q in, of all things, a cob! And I would never criticize someone for enjoying Middleton's Cherry Blend.)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  69. seakayak

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    I first started smoking a pipe nearly 40 years ago while in college. I stopped about 15 years later as the world began moving away from tobacco. Several months ago I decided to fire up some Captain Black in one of my old pipes. It was a tentative decision as I thought, if people are seriously offended, I'll just put the pipe back in the rack and avoid the noise. To my surprise, the smiling responses of non-smokers was uniformly positive. Comments like, "my dad used to smoke a pipe" and "that brings me back to my childhood" were common.
    I happened to be outside my office door when a cigarette smoker approached me. He began asking me about pipe smoking and how he could get started. He wanted to move from cigarettes to a pipe. We ended up talking for more than half an hour about everything from tobaccos to politics. The fraternity of pipe smokers continues to grow as more people are gently exposed to the wonderful peace to be found in a well made briar. We are in this together, friends. That is very good.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  70. pstlpkr

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    Welcome back to the fraternity.
    Excellent post.
    I look forward to reading more from you.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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