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Shipping Into Michigan

(34 posts)
  1. cmkiefer

    cmkiefer

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    Does anybody know what the deal is with shipping tobacco into Michigan? I wanted to order some samples from Uhle's in Wisconsin but ended up having to have it shipped to my son in Indiana and retrieving it from there (my wife went down for a visit). There are B&M's in the area that carry this tobacco so I assume it's an issue with shipping to private residences.

    By the way looking forward to my samples arriving Sunday night.
    1-1/2 oz each of:
    B&J's Cavendish
    Bishop's Move
    Black Stoker
    Blend 00
    Blend 232
    Blend 44
    Hunt Club Blend
    Raiders Blend

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. dochudson

    dochudson

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    what did Uhle's in Wisconsin say the reason was? I just got a decent size order from Boswells in PA into OH with no problem also got a few bundles of cigars from Famous in PA.

    this is probably the reason..
    link

    I Enjoy Aromatics
    I Enjoy Peterson Pipes
    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. ocpsdan

    ocpsdan

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    Should be no problem... I've had plenty of things shipped here. Whereabouts are you located?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. judcole

    Jud

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    I get tobacco all the time from PipesandCigars and McCranie's.I have also purchased over the years from Thompson's, JR, 4 Noggins,and probably some others. Don't know why you had an issue.

    Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
    Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
    Rudyard Kipling
    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. cmkiefer

    cmkiefer

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    They DID mention something about taxes which would jibe with dochudson's link to the Michigan PACT Act. But as I said, commercial tobacconists (Book World) in Michigan do carry their tobacco. Their website specifically says they won't ship to Michigan though.

    Hmmm.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. cmkiefer

    cmkiefer

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    To answer your question, ocpsdan, I'm in Ontonagon, MI

    .

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. taerin

    Eric

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    It was illegal to ship any tobacco product to any residence in Maryland for a year (last year), something like that may have occured.

    "The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time."
    Mark Twain
    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. judcole

    Jud

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    It's very easy. They don't ship here - don't buy tobacco from 'em. Lots of good blends to smoke without jumping through hoops 'cause somebody won't ship here.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. philobeddoe

    philobeddoe

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    Stock up your cellars, tobacco is going to get harder to buy and taxed higher until the nanny staters get rid of it. I hate to be pessimistic, but all of this "for our children" bullshit is only going to get worse.

    "So it goes." - K.V.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. keith929

    keith929

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    +1 Philo

    A smart man learns from the mistakes of others.
    A wise man learns from his own.
    ---Anonymous
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    +2 Philo.

    States and some in Congress are working themselves up into a lather now to pass Federal law(s) requiring any merchant (not just tobacco vendors) to charge state and local sales taxes based on the customer's home/billing address, which includes, but is not limited to, any internet sales.

    These politicians are serving whine with their cheese about how many millions/billions of dollars states & cities are losing in sales taxes now -- this new law would require everyone to pay the taxes they owe

    It's interesting to note that some vendors (like the one mentioned here) are not shipping to certain states (such as those that prohibit or require collection of state and local taxes -- they just don't want to deal with it. I see on eBay that some sellers post a clear disclaimer that if your home, billing or shipping address is in California, don't bother to bid in this item or to order from me because I will not be a tax collector for California.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. taerin

    Eric

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    local taxes should be charged according to the state in which the seller resides. That way states have to stay competitive in the market in order to collect taxes. People introducing laws like rothnh pointed out just simply do not understand how to create a stable, functioning economic enviroment. Over-regulation is so rampant it makes me want to cry. Because of this, I actually became an accountant!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. cmkiefer

    cmkiefer

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    In doing some research, it is a tax/licensing issue. It is illegal for a private individual to buy tobacco in the state of Michigan unless the seller is licensed (taxed) by the state of Michigan. Apparently this includes mail order. Thus, the local B&M's can sell it but I can't buy direct and have it shipped into the state.

    I don't blame Uhle's. They shouldn't have to jump through hoops for every state that wants to overregulate.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. ocpsdan

    ocpsdan

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    cmkiefer:

    Darn! Hoping you'd be closer. In just south of Holland; technically a southlander to you all in UP. I do wish I could relocate up there though. It's much quieter..

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. krizzose

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    Ferndale, MI here.

    This is all news to me. I've gotten several orders from Boswell's, smokingpipes.com, pipesandcigars.com, etc. I'm pretty sure I've never been charged MI sales tax on any those orders.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. uberam3rica

    Uberam3rica

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    I've only ever had to pay sales tax.

    As long as I got a pipe full of baccy and a nose full of snuff, I'm a happy camper
    Cigarettes are an addiction, cigars are a hobby, pipes are a religion
    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. rmbittner

    rmbittner

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    It is illegal for a private individual to buy tobacco in the state of Michigan unless the seller is licensed (taxed) by the state of Michigan. Apparently this includes mail order.

    This is 100% wrong. As in "inaccurate."

    I live in Michigan. And I have purchased tobacco -- a lot of tobacco -- from SmokingPipes.com and lesser amounts from McCranie's, Iwan Ries, Just For Him, Cup o' Joes, and a small out-of-state B&M that had something I was looking for. I'm talking easily 200 pounds of tobacco over the last decade. And UPS just dropped off my latest order from SmokingPipes.com twenty minutes ago.

    I don't know what Uhle's issue really was here -- and I see this thread was started four months ago -- but all you have to do is take your business somewhere else.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    Actually it appears to be illegal for a resident of Michigan to purchase tobacco from a vendor who is not licensed in Michigan (which license requires the collection of sales taxes). See http://www.michigan.gov/documents/TobaccoTaxPoster_132302_7.pdf

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. peckinpahhombre

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  20. rmbittner

    rmbittner

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    If that is indeed the law, then something's wrong somewhere.

    I am happy to pay sales tax on my out-of-state purchases; I couldn't care less about that. But I can tell you that not one of the tobacco vendors with whom I do business is collecting these taxes from me.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. peckinpahhombre

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    There is nothing I could find that discusses penalties for the sellers - at first blush, it looks like it is up to Michigan residents who purchase the tobacco to self-assess and pay their taxes. There are several articles about Michigan demanding, by subpoena, out of state retailers to disclose their list of sales to Michigan residents, presumably so the state can verify that those persons have indeed self-assessed and paid their taxes. It may be that the particular seller referred to above didn't want to have to disclose their personal records to the state of Michigan if they were the subject of a subpoena. I am not a US attorney, so I don't know whether such a subpoena could be enforced in a different state, but it is clear that vendors in other states have complied with subpoenas in the context of cigarette sales - in fact, one news report indicates Michigan went after 9000 residents who had purchased cigarettes from out of state sellers and levied taxes and penalties on those persons.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. rmbittner

    rmbittner

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    To me, this all just boils down to this: If you live outside of Wisconsin, there are better options than Uhle's for your tobacco needs.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    Looks like the tax on pipe tobacco you are required to pay and self-assess in Michigan is 32% of what you pay. So if you purchase $100 of pipe tobacco from an online vendor, you are required by Michigan law to file the form in the link above and remit $32.00 to the state of Michigan for your taxes.

    I hope this helps.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. rmbittner

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    I leave the details to our tax accountant.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    Actually, it looks like my example above is not quite correct. the 32% tax is only on the wholesale price, which the form indicates is treated as 50% of the retail price you pay. So in that example, you would be on the hook for $16. If you don't comply you would have to pay the $16, plus another $80 in penalties, plus interest. The notice also refers to the potential for criminal penalties potentially applying.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    To complete the discussion, here is an interesting article - looks like Michigan has been fairly active in enforcing their tobacco taxes: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=110&dat=20060228&id=YD1KAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yCUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5382,4816264

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. krizzose

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    Yikes. Here's the return you're supposed to file: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/taxes/4096A_391419_7.pdf.

    I read the return to require payment of 10% of the full retail price (wholesale price is assumed to be 50% of retail, and the tax is computed as wholesale price x .2).

    Thus, Michigan residents have to (1) report their on-line purchases and pay sales tax on the MI-1040, and (2) file the tobacco tax return.

    I'm gonna think happy thoughts.

    Edit: Edited final sentence for content. Please read: Does This Sound Familiar?, L.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    I am happy to pay sales tax on my out-of-state purchases; I couldn't care less about that. But I can tell you that not one of the tobacco vendors with whom I do business is collecting these taxes from me.

    In most, if not all receipts of the orders I get delivered, there's a disclaimer to the effect that, the vendor charges all taxes as required by law applicable for their place of business. They then state something like, "the customer is responsible for all local, county, state and other applicable taxes due at place of delivery."

    In my state, (where it's been the law for quite a while), we are required to pay a "use tax," the amount is the same as the state's sales tax of 5%, on all taxable purchases, as defined by law, that we have not paid. This yet-untaxed amount is entered in the applicable section of the annual income tax forms and payable; we must file these state income tax forms each year.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. peckinpahhombre

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    krizzose - that is the wrong return - see the top of the form you linked to - it is for pre-2004. The right return is on my link above and the computation is as I set out above. The tax rate was raised from 20% to 32%.

    Isn't that unusual? A tax rate going up?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. krizzose

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    peckinpahhombre,

    Word.

    After being properly scolded, I just want to be clear that trying to avoid paying taxes is wrong, and I would never, ever do it. Seriously.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. oldman

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    Bummer, & as I live Downriver, & am new to pipes, my searching, learning & wants stem from on-line goodness. I don't mind paying the taxes, but hate the hassle. And with the local B&M being bland in their tins, it makes on-line shopping so much more alluring.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. uberam3rica

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    @oldman
    Buy from pipesandcigars.com. It's where I get my tobacco, and there isn't any added price. Tins range from around 8-15 dollars.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. judcole

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    Oldman, if you are downriver, you might want to consider popping over to A2 to check out Maison Edwards. I haven't been there in a number of years, but they do have a strong line of their own house blends, as well as some tins.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. oldman

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    Uberam3rica & Jud thanks much. A2 is on my list for sure.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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