Pipes with Shellac/Varnish Finishes

python · Jan 6, 2010

This discussion started in this thread, Meet an old friend, Nørding. I think it would be good for it to have its own thread. I am interested in hearing others experiences, thoughts, and opinions on the subject.
Here is the start of the discussion:

Cortezattic Said: The conventional wisdom is that pipes with finishes such as shellac, paint, etc., should be avoided because they don't allow the briar to "breathe." But I have five such pipes and I don't notice any difference from the naturally finished pipes. Perhaps my rotation is large enough to rest them sufficiently. It is also possible that, thru the miracle of modern chemistry, pipemakers have found a coating that allows the pipe to breathe. The alternative conjecture is that such pipes are condemned to a relatively short life (whatever that may be.)
Does anyone have experiences or opinions regarding pipes with non-natural finishes?

Would such a finish deter you from buying a pipe that appealed to you in all other respects?

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Kevin Said: Keep in mind there is a difference between shellac and stain. Shellac will block the pores in the wood and not allow it to breathe. Stain, on the other hand, will add a color, whether it be green or brown (which will look like a natural wood color) and allow the pipe to still breathe.
The green Nording pipe above is stained green. I think green stained pipes were most popular in the '70s.

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Cortezattic Said: Right. The pipe pictured above has only stain and carnauba wax.
The other pipes to which I subsequently referred were shellac'd (or varnished, whatever,) and a couple of them were "clear," not blasted. I really don't think I would have purchased them if I had known that, but they were online purchases. I tried them, they seemed to be OK, and they're smoking as sweetly as any other pipe I own.

I was wondering if others had similar reservations and experiences with, shall we say, "coated" pipes.

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python · Jan 6, 2010

I have two pipes that have shellac/varnish finishes. I bought both of them when I started to seriously get into and buying quite a few pipes. It was about 4 years ago or so.
The first one is a Wessex pipe. I bought this pipe online because I liked the way that it looked and I got it for a really good price. It was new and un-smoked.
The second one is a Chacom Crystal pipe. I bought this one from a B&M because I liked the way that it looked. It was new and un-smoked.
The Wessex pipe smokes pretty well, but there is something about it that just doesn’t click. I can’t really explain what it is, but it just doesn’t smoke the same as the rest of my pipes. Every once in awhile, I will have a pretty good smoke from this pipe, but I don’t recall ever having a great smoke from it.
The Chacom pipe is very temperamental. Sometimes it smokes OK and sometimes it doesn’t. It can turn a blend that I really like in other pipes into something that I don’t really care for. It is a very strange pipe. I have not had a great smoke from it yet. Heck, I don’t even recall having a pretty good smoke from it. I have had some decent and OK smokes, but no blends that I have smoked in it have shined.
I would say that the Wessex smokes better than the Chacom. I am not sure if the finishes on the pipes are different or not. I am not even sure if the finishes are to blame. All that I can say is; that in my experiences with these two pipes, they do not smoke as good as my other pipes. All of the rest of my pipes have stain finishes.
I have heard from quite a few people that Chacom pipes are so-so. I have the same problems with my Chacom as Sinistertopiary does with his. It looks really nice, but I have a problem getting it to smoke good. But unlike ST, I have not found the blend that matches my pipe.
I smoke the Wessex more often than I smoke the Chacom. I hardly ever smoke the Chacom.
Here are photos of the pipes that I am talking about (because we are talking about the finish, I have included close-up shots of the bowls):
Wessex Pipe

Chacom Pipe

admin · Jan 6, 2010

Those pipes look nice, but they are saying, "Help! I can't breathe!"
The clear stem is pretty cool looking on the Chacom.

maxpeters · Jan 18, 2010

I have also heard that a pipe with a shellac finish would smoke hot and wet, but I have a Hilson Bolero that has a shellac finish, or a finish that has never dulled anyway. Not sure if it is shellac or not, but it smokes great. Always has. I recently almost ordered two more just like it, but in different shapes. I still may.

python · Jan 18, 2010

Phil Said: So what is the common finish that is used on a bowl…

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Wood Stain would be the common finish.

cortezattic · Jan 18, 2010

... shined-up with carnauba wax or, these days, Halcyon II or Paragon waxes. I think the permanently shiny finishes are a polyurethane-like coating. Like maxpeters, I find that they smoke great. But come to think of it, I've only see those finishes on low and mid-grade pipes. Has anyone seen a hi-grade pipe with varnish?

python · Jan 18, 2010

I have not seen a high grade with varnish. I would think that the reason for that is; grain is part of the reason that a high grade is a high grade. They don't want to cover it with varnish and stuff.
Also, and I may be mistaken, artisan pipe makers do not like using varnish/shellac/paint because it would allegedly hinder the breathing of the briar. That reasoning does make sense to me.

cortezattic · Jan 18, 2010

My question would be: what's being "breathed"? I never detect any of the pipe's "exhalations" on my hands, or on the inside of my gloved meers.

python · Jan 18, 2010

From my understanding, all wood breathes because wood is a porous material. By putting a varnish/shellac/paint on the wood, it is blocking up all of the pours and doesn't allow it to breathe.
You can see this on pipes that have been smoked a lot from the patina that is on the bowl. Some of the patina comes from the inside of the bowl to the outside because the wood is absorbing some of the moisture from the smoke.
You can really tell this from pipes with natural finishes; no stain just bare wood. It will start coloring (getting darker) pretty quickly from the moisture caused from the burning tobacco and the briar absorbing some of said moisture.

jcosmoasp · Jan 18, 2010

All this pipe finishing discussion leads me to ponder if there's been any research done at the university level or in the wood products industry regarding the actual porosity and "breathability" of wood by species. It seems that the denser the species (especially considering the compaction and twisting of stump grain due to gravity and tree weight-the very thing we prize in briar) would affect porosity as much as any surface treatment. I'd bet that finishes throughout history have been mainly formulated based on the (1)availability (2)cost (3) visual appeal of final finish and (4) durablity, not necessarily in that order. The only pipe I ever owned that eventually leaked tar was a huge, straight-grained bent with a thin meerschaum lining. It was relatively inexpensive, and gave a cool, long-lasting (2 hrs, 45 mins as I recall) smoke. I used to sit in my ratty, overstuffed chair in my attic apartment, doing the thousands of pages of required reading for college courses, and was dismayed to find it leaking one day. I guess that's "breathing". Seems like a topic for investigation, especially in light of my plans to make a faux Ropp.
Bruce.

cortezattic · Jan 18, 2010

Bob said

Some of the patina comes from the inside of the bowl to the outside because the wood is absorbing some of the moisture from the smoke.

Okay, I think I get it. I'll just have to wait and see how my varnished pipes work out with time.

One is a mid-grade Butz-Choquin,

the other a Rattray's.

(I think I read somewhere that they are both made in the same factory.)

cortezattic · Jan 19, 2010

phil, you're not far off the mark!

Bob has me pretty well convinced that pipes do breathe; but there's a thought that keeps nagging at me: Is breathing necessary, or is it just an irrelevant characteristic?

So... as I was looking for something unrelated, I found the following discussion concerning some of the myths that have been argued over for a long time.

Now admittedly, Jean-Paul Berrod, president of Berrod-Regad, the manufacturer of Butz-Choquin lacquered pipes might just be a little biased or dismissive; but here's what he says:

I see absolutely no difference when I smoke a lacquered or non-lacquered pipe. In the old days, when a pipe was lacquered to make it shiny, the pipe was dipped so that the lacquer was both inside and outside the bowl. What gave the pipe a bad and hot taste was the lacquer inside the bowl. Today we spray lacquer on the outside of some of our pipe models. He dismisses the notion that briar has to breathe and must therefore be lacquer-free.

So I'm beginning to think that pipes will breathe if left un-lacquered, but to the smoker it doesn't matter whether they breathe or not.

ejames · Feb 6, 2010

Probably 90% of the cheaper American factory made pipes(I can't say about European pipes etc) have some sort of finish on top of the stain. Lacquer I believe is the most common. There have been millions of pipes made by Grabow,Medico,Kaywoodie,Bradberry,Brewster and scores of other manufacturers that are lacquered or even painted. They are finished like this because it is the cheapest,fastest way to make the pipes shine,and hide fills.A high grade pipe will be hand sanded to 600-1000 grit and then buffed with buffing compound to make them shine and they will shine nicely even before waxing!! A Grabow etc. is sanded to 360-400 grit and then lacquered. Strip the lacquer off of a Grabow and you will see sanding scratches!! Sand that same Grabow to 800 and buff and watch it shine!! Of course stripping the lacquer exposes the fills!!

I smoke cheap pipes. Can't afford the high grades. My rotation (about 30 pipes at present)mostly Grabows and Medico filter pipes bought mostly on ebay. When I get a pipe in,usually the first thing I look at is the condition of the lacquer.If it is worn or peeling etc. I refinish that pipe,strip the lacquer sand to 800,buff. Sometimes I stain,sometimes not.If the lacquer is nice I don't touch it other than to clean and wax. I have never noticed any difference in the way my pipes smoke. The lacquer as far as I can tell makes no difference!My painted Grabows(and the Kaywoodie White Briars I used to have) smoked fine!! Personally,I don't believe pipes need to "breathe".Rest and dry out sure,breathe ,no.

igloo · Feb 7, 2010

Shellac incesct sh..t from India , Varnish tree sap think pine tar . Most newer stains are from Dow chemical . It just does not matter the pores are so small and get clogged up so fast with the tars from the tobacco you could coat the outside of the bowl with JB Weld and it just would not matter . If she does not smoke right she has to be opened up . The problem lies in the draft hole or the stem . Get your self a extra long drill bit from a tool supply co and overbore her like a small block Chevy .A wood stove can not be exhausted to one inch copper tubing and a smoking pipe is the same way the breathing ratio has to be right . Now excuse me while I clean my bowl with my pocket knife . It will be ok Iam allowed to play with sharp objects .And by the way a machine is just a faster way to remove wood to make a pipe [My pipe is better than yours because it was carved with a piece of flint in Europe in a really old building ]. Arrgh now where is my pipe .

ejames · Feb 7, 2010

I agree with what igloo says about opening up a pipe to make it smoke better.When I go to clean a nasty old estate pipe the first step is running a 5/32"(4MM works too)through the shank.Not only removes a bunch of gunk but opens it up for better air flow.An extra long drill bit is not needed for most pipes.I will also open the stem if possible.I have found that doing this and also making sure my tobacco is not to damp cuts down on gurgle.
Not sure what kind of stains the factories use but most artisan pipe makers use aniline(alcohol based) stains.

chuckw · Feb 7, 2010

I guess I'll chime in on this one. I have two Peterson's that were coated with clear acrylic. Acetone wouldn't cut it. The pipes smoked hot and became nasty in the heel. I sanded the pipes with 600 grit wet and dry, re-stained them then waxed and buffed them with carnuba. Both became better than average smokers immediatly because they could now "breath". That is heat could now escape thru the walls rather than be reflected back into the bowl.

As for opening up a pipe, if it smokes well, I don't mess with it. One must realize that to do the job properly, the stem must be re-worked also. Straightening a bent stem to re-drill it or, better yet, taper drill it, is problematical at best.

cortezattic · Feb 8, 2010

I have several lacquered pipes that smoke just fine, so I think I'll leave them alone. If and when they go bad, I'll go the sanding route to see if I can rescue them.

dudleydipstick · Feb 8, 2010

I have a Butz Choquin Mars dress pipe that smokes extremely hot, no matter how gentle I am with it. I think if I puffed very fast it'd be about the same as having a fistful of tobacco and a stem stuck between my fingers.

It's the dog of my collection and I'm planning to do what ChuckW recommends and sand and restain it. I may not even bother with a finish, I really just want to remove the varnish that is trapping all the heat. The draught hole is open enough, so this may be the only worthwhile solution. As it is, I'm tempted to chuck it.
The site the image is from is asking 105 Euros for it. I didn't pay much more than $40 and feel really bad for the poor sucker that gets fleeced for that many Euros.
Edit: The image upload didn't seem to work, so here's the link...
http://www.lemaire-pipes.com/pipes-butz-choquin-mars-p-68.html

dudleydipstick · Feb 19, 2010

I've since learned how to post pics, here's the BC:

sapo59 · Feb 19, 2010

Nice pipe dudley. I know conventional methods say to sand to the finest grit of sand paper obtainable then wax the pipe with carnauba wax till it shines. This is the way it's been done for along time. Why change something that is known to work???

Pipes with Shellac/Varnish Finishes

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