Okay - I admit it, I can't tell the difference in smoking a $50 pipe from a $350 pipe. I have been smoking for almost four decades. I have been buying pipes for that entire time. When I can, I prefer to buy pipes in the $100-$200 range. I have convinced myself that at that price, it must be a good pipe. However, I have bought "name" pipes in that range that do not smoke as well as a $20 corn cob. So, I guess it is time to reach out for help. Putting aside the B&M $20 pipes with walls so thin they will cut your hand, what distinguishes the smoking characteristics in pipes in this general price range (read under $200) and is there any direct relationship between price and quality of smoke among these pipes? I am not talking about aesthetics --just smoking enjoyment. Thanks for the help.
Pipe Costs - What's In a Name
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Of the few pipes that I have, I appreciate my cheaper Dr. Grabows as much as my Peterson. All are good smokers. Anyone else's mileage/preference may vary.
From my most expensive pipe down to my least expensive, it's not the price that makes a great smoker that I've noticed. I have a churchwarden I received for Christmas last year, no name, only marking "Italy," from the grain I'm sure it's pear wood, and I'm certain it was very low dollar.... however it is one of my best smokers. It doesn't get hot, and it stays lit with very little work on my part. I just finished smoking a Molto Dolce/Bagpiper's Dream mix in that pipe and as usual it was a great smoke. I think it depends on the pipe more than the make and brand, or even the artisan.
If you take the esthetics out of the question probably not a lot of difference in smoking characteristics, pipe for pipe. I find more expensive pipes to generally weigh less, most likely due to the higher quality briar, than less expensive pipes of the same general size and shape. Just my experience though.
I guess it's that time, again... Funny how topics will constantly come back around. I think on this go around, I'm going to take the stance that we should all just grind the nomenclature off of our pipes, and let each individual pipe fend for itself outside of brand names and artists. :
: ...gimme a minute, I'm still working on the argument.
: ...gimme a minute, I'm still working on the argument.
Michael: Interesting idea. I'm still trying to get my brain around the idea of rejecting "eye" appeal. Esthetic appeal is what initially draws me to a pipe on the wall or in the case. I mean, I would not even fondle a pipe in the store if it didn't catch my eye first. And, I'm not sure I could enjoy smoking a pipe I didn't enjoy looking at and holding in my fist. It all has to fit for me to really enjoy my pipe. I'm not talking about my "work" pipes only about the those I enjoy after work, with a good read and glass of something.
You never know how a pipe will smoke until you smoke it. Cheap or highend. I have cheapies that smoke great and name brands that are not so good.
A pipe made from quality materials may or may not smoke better than a cheap pipe, but it will generally last a lot longer, take more abuse. and have a more comfortable bit. Much of what one is paying for is style, grain, finish, uniqueness, and to a lesser extent, bragging rights. In the case of some very exacting artisan makers, you're paying for the cost of perfection, which can include all of the costs and time associated with the pipes they deemed unfit for release.
Maybe I can pose the question this way. If one were to close his/her eyes, have a bit placed in one's mouth without seeing or holding the pipe, is there a direct relationship in smoking quality between a more expensive pipe and a less expensive pipe, assuming one could keep all other factors equal. If you were blindfolded and placed in a Bentley and a Yugo, you could tell which has a better ride. That's all I'm asking.
The more you spend the better it smokes, anything under $2000 is total garbage.
:wink:
:wink:
Too many variables for anyone to answer this honestly on a whole. I think if you buy a Cavicchi you are more likely to get a great smoker than buying a Savinelli... BUT... there is likely a Savinelli out there that smokes as well as that Cavicchi. This is based on my experience and is only my opinion. I have had Savs, Petes and Chacoms that weren't the best smokers and I've had others that were. In contrast every one of my 7 Ligne Britagnes is a terrific smoker but I don't think you can simply project that on to any two pipe brand honestly. Buy what you like and don't worry about price unless you need to for financial reasons and know that above a certain price you are paying for name/aesthetics/amazing grain.
I suspect I would not particularly enjoy the experience with either pipe. If you remove the visual part of the experience, wafting smoke, glowing tobacco, etc. you have indeed simplified the question. It is still an unanswerable question in my opinion. If all the remaining factors were indeed equal, same quality briar, same fit and execution of build, the pipes should smoke the same, as there would be no difference between the pipes.
I'm not sure your theoretical question can not be answered definitively. We haven't even addressed the internal dissimilarities existing between two blocks of briar, cut from the same root, adjacent to each other, dried and aged the same way, identical in all appearances. Yours is a seemingly a very simple question. It's not though.
I'm not sure your theoretical question can not be answered definitively. We haven't even addressed the internal dissimilarities existing between two blocks of briar, cut from the same root, adjacent to each other, dried and aged the same way, identical in all appearances. Yours is a seemingly a very simple question. It's not though.
It's a block of wood with a big hole and little hole. If you just want a little smoke in your mouth, you can use a tin can with a few holes punched in it. But pipe smoking is so much more than just getting the smoke in your mouth. For some maybe not. Some just want a classical looks. But, then some want to admire the workmanship that went into the pipe and the whole eye appeal. I'm with Warren on that. When out hunting or working the field or the yard, I use a beater bulldog, but when I get home I want something that is a pure pleasure to hold. When out with friends or doing stuff in public, I want something that draws conversations.
Some have tighter draws, some are wide open, some gurgle when pushed uphill, some take the corners a little rough, and some will stay lit even if I set it down to go get me a drink. All of them drive differently, and unless the maker was a completely moron or the machine malfunctioned, they should at least burn the leaves. Skill is what smokes the pipe. Cost is just cost.
But on the other hand, I like what daimyo says, if your paying less than $2000, your probably getting junk, ha ha.
If you just want smoke in your mouth, buy a cob or a Garbow. They'll get the job done.
I've got the nomenclature filed off of half my pipes now. By the end of this conversation, they should all be standing on their own. ::
Some have tighter draws, some are wide open, some gurgle when pushed uphill, some take the corners a little rough, and some will stay lit even if I set it down to go get me a drink. All of them drive differently, and unless the maker was a completely moron or the machine malfunctioned, they should at least burn the leaves. Skill is what smokes the pipe. Cost is just cost.
But on the other hand, I like what daimyo says, if your paying less than $2000, your probably getting junk, ha ha.
If you just want smoke in your mouth, buy a cob or a Garbow. They'll get the job done.
I've got the nomenclature filed off of half my pipes now. By the end of this conversation, they should all be standing on their own. :
:
If you are strictly talking about the taste of the smoke, and nothing to do with the enjoyment (feel of the pipe, look of the grain, etc.), then it comes down to the quality of the briar and engineering. Determining the quality of briar without smoking a finished pipe is next to impossible. So is it possible to get a cheap pipe made of quality briar and an expensive pipe made of crap briar...? Yes. But I feel your chances of getting quality briar in an expensive pipe are much better then in a cheap pipe. And when it comes to engineering, again I feel that you have a better chance of quality the more you spend.
All that being said, we are discussing taste, which is very subjective. What one person thinks tastes amazing, another might think tastes horrible.
All that being said, we are discussing taste, which is very subjective. What one person thinks tastes amazing, another might think tastes horrible.
+1 northernneil
I'll also add that this is all just theoretical. In the study of philosophy or aesthetics, the first thing you learn is that the definition is never ever within the object, but the person. What is good? What is beauty? What is excellence? To answer these questions, you have to define the variable, not the static object.
Someone will love a $50 steak, and someone will hate it. No one food appeals to the masses universally. No one object will appeal to every smoker. The finest Eltang (or any well known maker of the finest pipes) is replicated exactly for every single smoker will bring about reports of variable qualities, because we all want different things out of our pipes, and we have all developed different styles of smoking that may or may not work any given pipe.
If only $50 pipes appeal to you, then you're a lucky person. If only $2000 masterpieces appeal to you, then get a good job, ha ha. Enjoy what you smoke, and smoke what you enjoy ::
I'll also add that this is all just theoretical. In the study of philosophy or aesthetics, the first thing you learn is that the definition is never ever within the object, but the person. What is good? What is beauty? What is excellence? To answer these questions, you have to define the variable, not the static object.
Someone will love a $50 steak, and someone will hate it. No one food appeals to the masses universally. No one object will appeal to every smoker. The finest Eltang (or any well known maker of the finest pipes) is replicated exactly for every single smoker will bring about reports of variable qualities, because we all want different things out of our pipes, and we have all developed different styles of smoking that may or may not work any given pipe.
If only $50 pipes appeal to you, then you're a lucky person. If only $2000 masterpieces appeal to you, then get a good job, ha ha. Enjoy what you smoke, and smoke what you enjoy :
:
I've got a couple pipes under 50 dollars that are light and comfortable in the clench, also feel good in the hand, are quite nice to look at, and smoke like a dream. I certainly wouldn't call them garbage.
Well crap... It was eating at me so much I tossed my pipes in the trash can. I will now fish them out and clean the Chef Boyardee sauce off of them.
I just might do that. But I should at least wipe them down a bit. That sauce might take the stain right off.
No, because there's no way to keep all other factors equal. Briar is an organic product and like all organic products, its properties vary. Even blocks cut from the same burl can perform differently. There are so many steps in making pipes that many variables are inevitable. There is no guaranteed consistency anywhere.
We purchase certain brands with the hope that their quality control will result in a greater consistency, but the quality of pipes varies within any maker's output, whether that of a factory or a lone artisan.
I'm not saying that there's no performance difference in different grades of briar. Strength and heat dispersion tend to be better in the higher grades, and those grades are more expensive to buy as raw material. What I am saying is that there is no GUARANTEE. So there is no DIRECT relationship between price and smoking quality. There is an indirect one due to the quality of the materials used and the handling and processing of those materials. It's more like percentages than absolutes.
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