Peterson's Irish Made - New Find and Curiosity Abounds

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osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Good morning/afternoon all,
Cap in hand again, I hear you cry? Alas, tis true. I have pulled this pipe out of a box of estates I have just got, and I'm curious. Unless I'm mistaken, it's a Peterson's Irish Made Army Mount. The only nomenclature it has is an 'Irish Made' shank stamp and the K&P faux marks on the ferrule. No 'Peterson's', K&P, no shape number, no stem stamp. Nothing.
As no doubt you have guessed, I'm trying to work out the dating. Problem is I can find next to no history of these pipes. I know they have been around for eons, but other than that, I have found nothing. I am rather hoping someone here can help fill in some blanks for me.
I don't understand the departure from the stamping convention. Why doesn't this pipe follow the usual eras and stamping standards? Were they originally seconds or made cheaply and knocked out for buttons? I'm also trying to work out how old it is. It does not look like a modern pipe, yet it is in really good condition. The modern ones I've seen are stamped more conventionally, but just Irish Made offers me no clues, yet I suspect it may be significant, as is the lack of shape number. The shape of the ferrule looks like it belongs on an older Peterson's - the curve to the stem is not as round as the modern pipes, but to my amateur eye, it could be 20 yrs old or it could be considerably older. I'm not sure if the stem is original. Reborn Pipes has an piece on a early era army mount and the stem looks the same, but I couldn't really get a good look at it, but the taper from the saddle, which is less prominent than the modern pipes, seems consistent.
So, I was wondering if anyone could cure me of my ignorance of the Irish Made pipes - there must be a story there, but I'm buggered if I can find it. As ever, many thanks.
Geoff
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osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Thanks Chasingembers. That is the article that made me look into the ferrule shape a bit more. However, the 'acorn-shape' and the 'larger radius' I find somewhat obscure (limitation of my brain, rather than the explanation). However, it did make me look into the ferrule shape more and I'm guessing that it means that the older ferrules have a flatter curve whereas the modern shape curves to almost 90 degrees. The pipe I have does seem to have the earlier-type ferrule, and I have compared army mounts throughout the eras and it does seem that mine is closer to the patent era than to the modern era. The ferrule is nickel so the hallmark section doesn't apply.
But it seems that the Irish Made pipes have their own conventions which I can't find explained anywhere and, whilst it would be nice to say this is a patent era pipe, it doesn't have the conventional COM etc. that would nail it down. I'm rather hoping that someone on here knows what those conventions are because I've looked and can't find anything on the Irish Made pipes.
Thanks again.
Geoff

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,426
7,369
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
Not all pipes made in Ireland were made by Peterson. There were several other makers back in the day.
Also, some Peterson rejects were stamped similar to the above with no mention of Peterson being the maker. I have a few myself.
Regards,
Jay.

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
True. Unlikely they stamped their ferrules with the Peterson logo though (unless they were being very naughty).
I do try to answer my own questions first but unfortunately my research has dried up. Unless this is a fake, it is a Peterson's Irish Made Army Mount. Of this I'm 99% sure. These pipes don't follow the same conventions as other Peterson's (I believe the new ones are still stamped 'Irish Made') and I can't find anywhere that details what those conventions are. I'm not even sure whether the various eras apply to these pipes or whether they fell under the patents. I suspect, but don't know, that these were produced and sold quite cheaply (although new, they are fairly pricey these days)and used as an out-and-about type pipe that could be broken and pocketed whilst hot.
At the moment, all I have to go on is the shape of the ferrule which, it seems, slowly changed shape over 60 odd years. I am hoping that some kind soul who knows how these pipes changed over the years will be able to fill me in with the conventions they used.

 

jensen

Can't Leave
Apr 10, 2016
440
144
I have one, bought new in Galway in 1992. You can still buy them in the UK today, around £ 66

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Hi Jensen,
Yes, I have been tempted many times. By all accounts, they sound like good smokers. As I understand it, they have been made since the early/mid 1900s. But I don't think this is a modern one. From what I can see on the new ones, the ferrule is shorter and more rounded and the stamping conventions are different. The ferrule stamps are K&P Peterson and I think K&P, Irish Made, and shape number are stamped on the stummel. My question relates to the stamping conventions with a view to using them as indicators of date. If it's 10 years old, I'll strip it down and make it pretty; if it's 100 yrs old, I won't.
I know I'm sounding like a stuck record, but the stamping conventions on the Peterson's 'normal' ranges indicate which era the pipe was made (COM stamp for example). But the Irish Made pipes I suspect are different because, as far as I know, they don't follow the COM stamping (as far as I know, they have always been stamped 'Irish Made'). I just can't find any information to either support this or contradict it.
Cheers,
Geoff

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,426
7,369
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
"The ferrule stamps are K&P Peterson and I think K&P..."
I apologize, I never realized your ferrule was stamped K&P as you never showed it thus, all I saw were the three faux stamps. These of course mean actually nothing on a nickel ferrule and could be adopted by any manufacturer.
Regards,
Jay.

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Hi Jay,
No, you were right the first time. The above quote was referring to the new Irish Made pipes which are stamped K&P on both the stummel and the ferrule. Mine just has the faux marks. It could be a reject - that is a possibility (I have seen several but most have been marked as Reject, but those that are not do not have the branded ferrule, but it is still a real possibility). But I think there is more going on with the Irish Made army mount pipes. As far as I know, Irish Made appears only on the army mount pipe which is contrary to their normal COM conventions. The lack of nomenclature in general on my pipe is unusual. Yes, it could be a reject, but since the conventions are particular to the army mount pipe, it could simply be that the army mount pipes from this particular era didn't have any additional stamping. It is this piece of information that has eluded me and is starting to drive me a bit mad. I know next to nothing about the army mount pipes and I've spent the best part of 2 days looking (just let it go, Geoff, let it go).
Anyway, the following image shows a 1929 pipe from Reborn Pipes. It is a different pipe with a silver ferrule and standard nomenclature, but the ferrule is very similar to mine in shape. Once you get to the 40s, the ferrule becomes rounder at the bend, and at some point in the republic era, changed to how they look now. It just drives me mad knowing the information is out there somewhere, but I can't find it.
I'll take a Valium and go to bed.
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