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Peterson's

(93 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by excav8tor
  • Latest reply from colcolt
  1. excav8tor

    excav8tor

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    I have noticed that there are quite a few lovers of Peterson pipes, me being one. So I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread that is specifically for Peterson's and information relating to them.

    When I first joined the forum, it was suggested that I offer information, that I have gained from various pipes/pipemakers that I research, to outside agencies or websites. Now, whilst I agree with the freedom of information and sharing what I have learned, why not have that information accumulated here on Smokingpipes.com?

    I recently wrote to Peterson's a request for information on a pipe that had no Country Of Manufacture (COM). After having narrowed it down, by reading all the articles on dating Peterson's I was hoping for some kind of confirmation. To my surprise it confirmed my suspicions that the pipe was at the very least 100 years old.

    In addition, I was given told that these early pipes had a numbering system for the different grades of quality, which was not mentioned in any of the articles I had read so far.

    These were:

    “0” Grade – A grade slightly under first quality, finished in a light Walnut colour and Hallmarked Silver Mount with space for wear of the Vulcanite mouthpiece.

    “2” Grade – A very substantial quality Briar with Hallmarked Silver Mounts and fine quality Vulcanite mouthpiece.

    “3” Grade – Finished in a medium Walnut colour with a Nickel Mount and a good quality Vulcanite mouthpiece.

    These grades can come either on their own or within a circle.

    Peterson don’t have any archives at all so they rely largely on old catalogues and the input from their senior craftsmen.

    I am in the process of renovating a 308 that can be dated to between 1945 and 1947 and it is marked with a 0 on its own, whereas the older pipe is a 3 within a circle.

    Dating a Peterson's to a particular year (without a silver mount) can be very difficult, if not impossible. At best it seems that all that can be found is an age range e.g. between 1945 and 1947 by the identification of the COM (and if there is one) and also, what type of script is used in the 'P' in Peterson. A good article on Dating Peterson's is HERE

    The unusual thing that I did notice about the 1945-47 pipe is that the mortise is the same diameter as the bowl i.e. 18mm.

    By the way, I don't have a stem for the 1945-47 Peterson's and seeing as the mortise is way bigger than the 'normal' system standards we see today, it probably means I am going to get smacked really hard for a replacement.

    "A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis
    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. excav8tor

    excav8tor

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    I have just received an email from Peterson's with reference to a question I asked them.

    'Can I assume therefore that a pipe marked with a 1 within a circle means a 1st grade pipe. If that is so, what would the definition of a 1st Grade pipe be'?

    I don’t know if there are pipes marked with a 1 within a circle – I haven’t seen one mentioned, even in the old catalogues. The best quality you can buy is called a “Straight Grain” and I am pretty sure they were available 100 years ago but they are quite rare.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. robs

    robs

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    I am another confirmed Peterson Nut. I currently have the following.....
    4 of 303 (One being a Golden Princess)
    1 of 314 and a same shaped Mershaum
    1 of 307 (Ebony)
    2 of 305 (1 Ebony)
    1 of Kinsale XL12
    1 of Kinsale XL23
    1 of Kinsale XL11
    1 of Kinsale XL26
    1 of "Special Edition" (Same as POTY 2008)
    1 of POTY 2001

    Hopefully some more to come once the "Special Edition" and a.n.other Pipe have been sold to fund incoming LOL.

    Communicating via this internet malarkey is an ideal way for me to socialise with YOU, the great unwashed and uneducated, whilst keeping you all at a distance. Tones it down you see?
    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. chuckw

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    Excav8or. May I suggest a couple of blogs. The first is The Peterson Pipe Project http://thepetersonpipeproject.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2007-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2008-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=27
    scroll down to Mike Levetette's dating guide.
    The second and more up to date is Jim Lilleys The Peterson Pipe Collector
    http://thepetersoncollector.blogspot.com/
    You can also see some old Peterson catalogues on my Photobucket account:
    http://s740.photobucket.com/albums/xx50/ChuckWright_01/Barry%20Levin/ This is a copy of Barry Levins Patent era work. It loaded backwards so start with page 7.
    This next one is a copy of Peterson's 1896 catalogue:
    http://s740.photobucket.com/albums/xx50/ChuckWright_01/Peterson%201896%20catolgue/

    As for your 308, a current 307 stem will fit but you must re-bend it to the proper shape. here is one of my 308's to give you an idea of the shape:

    I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. chuckw

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    I loaded the previous post pretty heavily. A Peterson with no COM and not being stamped Patent on the shank was made between 1915 and 1921.
    On to your query about grading.
    A System 0 would be the same as todays Supreme grade.
    A 1 would be a Deluxe.
    A 2 would be a Premier.
    A 3 would be a Standard.
    I have a 4 and a 5 grade which I assume were lesser grades and have been discontinued or will simply have re-graded as Standards in todays market.
    You will note the different stem shapes available in the Barry Levin catalogue. These were available on any grade pipe in their line up then.
    To toot my own horn a bit, I am one of the moderators on the Peterson group on another forum.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. excav8tor

    excav8tor

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    Thanks Chuck, I was hoping you'd reply and you didn't disappoint.
    The other strange thing about the '0' 308, is that the mount is definitely NOT silver moreover it is not Nickel either; it looks more like Aluminium. The only thing I can think of is that silver and nickel were in rather short supply at the end of WW2.
    And thanks for the tip on 307 stems fitting.

    PS.... Toot away to your hearts content. I won't complain, I promise.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. skipper

    skipper

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    Being myself another "Pete nut", I'm glad to join this thread. I have never considered myself a true collector, but simply a pipesmoker and Peterson's lover. Over the years I have bought some 100+ Petes, some brand new, some estate ones, some in production at the moment of the purchase, some very ancient ones.
    I'm thrilled at your experience, and you can be sure I shall visit this thread regularly.
    Cheers

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. unclearthur

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    I am going to have to take the time and go through my Peterson rack and list what I have managed to gather up.

    If at first you don't succeed you are running about average.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. thesandpiper

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    Hi Guys, I see Chuck has mentioned me and my blog in the passing.I probably am the ultimate Pete nut.A fine madness it is.

    http://thepetersoncollector.blogspot.com/
    Regards to you all
    Jim

    Custodian of the 'Peterson Pipe Collector Blog' http://thepetersoncollector.blogspot.com/

    'The Pete Blog'- dedicated to the history and collection of Peterson tobacco and pipes.
    Posted 2 years ago #
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    sixdollardave

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    I'm also a Peterson pipe nut. I'm a smoker, not a collector, but I do own two Mark Twains that are amoung the best pipes I've ever smoked.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. seilerjp

    seilerjp

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    While not a big Peterson pipe collector, I do have a small set of the Sherlock Holmes pipes (I collect SH material, a spreadsheet of my collection is on my website). I have had Tim West replace stems on some 1940's pipes and he is very reasonable and does a great job. You can check with him as he may have the logo. He does have the logo stamp for Charatan pipes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. ernest

    ernest

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    All my pipes have been Petersons.My next ones will all be Petersons.When I see a Peterson that I feel I must have,all common sense goes out the window and the cash is dropped on the table no matter the cost.No one or nothing can stop this disease.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. unclearthur

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    Ernest? Are we twins separated at birth? I am a Peterson fanatic as well. Though I do have a lot of other pipes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. thesandpiper

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    Hi Guys,sorry for the duplication of the earlier post,just formally introducing myself, after at last finding my way around your great forum with some degree of competence.
    I am a retired eccentric Scotsman who is obsessed with Peterson pipes.I know,sad person!!
    Dedicated focus, collecting only Peterson pipes(400 approx.).I have mini collections within my main collection,including Patents, pre-Republics, Mark Twain's, Darwin's,Peterson London made pipes,'Star' and 'Red' Standard Systems,Year pipes,Anniversary,Commemorative and modern higher grade pipes.
    Curator of the world famous Sandpiper Vintage Peterson Museum and Custodian of the Peterson Pipe Collector Blog.
    Looking forward to getting involved in your great community.
    Kindest regards from the wilds of Scotland.
    Jim

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. lordnoble

    lordnoble

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    We're glad to have you here, Jim! I browsed your blog, and it looks like I have MANY hours of reading to do not to mention hours of looking through your collection. Thanks!

    -Jason

    The preceding statement is not to be construed as fact, but merely conjecture.

    Proud member of the BlackBlood Society
    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. thesandpiper

    thesandpiper

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    Thank you for the welcome Jason and your kind comments.Glad you had a brief look at the Blog.As you have stated it does require a degree of time and patience to cover all of my ramblings.My aim is that in time it will become a reference tool for all Pete Nuts.Peterson facts and history are difficult to pin down in any systematic form,I hope that this will make it simpler for newbies in particular.
    Regards
    Jim
    http://thepetersoncollector.blogspot.com/

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. fred

    fred

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    OK guys... Having both African Block Peterson Meerschaums and the
    recent high grade Turkish Block Sherlock Holmes Series Meerschaums
    in my modest collection, I believe that this is an area that should
    be checked out. These are good Pipes and smoke well.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. unclearthur

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    Welcome to the party Jim! Great blog !

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. gunner777

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    Chuck thanks for those links there will be some interesting reading there. Petersons at least the high end spigots have sure increased a lot in price over the last several years!
    Make me wish I had kept my gold spigot:-(

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. ernest

    ernest

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    Can never get enough Peterson info.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. excav8tor

    excav8tor

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    A before and after set of my new aquisition a Grade 3, 364 that was made between 1915 and 1921.
    BEFORE:

    AFTER:

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. unclearthur

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    Beautiful!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. skipper

    skipper

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    Gorgeous!
    Well done, excav8tor. Yoy have restyled the Standard 314 grandma!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. bubbadreier

    Bubba

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    Great job excav8tor!! It looks like a completely new pipe!

    Mason jars and bale top jars, mason jars and bale top jars.... that is all!

    "There’s truth in the statement that pipe tobacco will never be any less expensive than it is today, so think of your cellar as a cost averaged investment" - G.L. Pease
    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. thesandpiper

    thesandpiper

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    Superb resurrection Mark.Compliments on a great job.

    I always enjoy seeing the oldies brought back to life.Even although it is a 3 grade,it has to be admired,a quality and age of briar no longer available. I love the patina and colour.It is always a joy to see old briar like that it seems to sparkle.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. chuckw

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    Good job Mark. Bubbadreier is right. It looks like a new pipe.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. skipper

    skipper

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    A question (first of many) for the Pete Nuts:
    Does anyone know when the Dublin-London series was first introduced and when was discontinued?
    Thanks.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. thesandpiper

    thesandpiper

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    Erardo(Skipper),the Peterson history is difficult to refer to with any degree of accuracy.Records are poor.To the best of my knowledge through my own research, I would suggest that the London based Peterson operations were from around 1896 until around 1970.
    Hope that helps,
    Jim

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. ernest

    ernest

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    Nice collection robs.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. skipper

    skipper

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    Jim, thanks for your reply, but the Dublin&London pipes I am puzzled by were still available at the shops back in 1992 when I bought a 264. They had the MADE IN THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND (in three lines)COM and seem to be similar to the Kildares.
    Last year I bought in eBay an unusued one (a 150) with original acryilic mouthpiece in dark amber colour ???
    And I have also a 265 MADE IN IRELAND and a 14 shaped one without COM. All of them have the Peterson's in block letters and the forked P with the closed upper part. I was supposing it was a series name, not a factory identifier.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  31. thesandpiper

    thesandpiper

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    The key word I would use in reference to Peterson stamping is 'idiosyncratic'.It is a mine field of inconsistency.There are many examples of pipes with confusing stamps.Peterson were very guilty of using old stamps,bowls and stems to use up older stock which had been on the shelves.
    In regard to the Dublin and London stamping,such pipes starting with the Dublin before London were deemed to have originated in the Ireland factory.Those stamped with the London before Dublin were made in England.
    I hope that helps.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  32. robs

    robs

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    The stamping will perhaps give us the clues needed when I receive the Shamrock Hungarian I recently won. The Seller assumed that it was Pre Republic, but I am yet to be convinced. Hopefully Jim will be able to tell me more once I can supply some rather more detailed pictures.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  33. thesandpiper

    thesandpiper

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    Either Chuck or I will do our best to assist dating your pipe once it arrives Rob,it would be a pleasure to do so.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  34. chuckw

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    According to Angela, Peterson's closed the London shop in 1982. They may have stopped making pipes there earlier. Pipes with the Dublin and London stamps were made in Dublin until 1992.
    Another thing, if the pipe is stamped London and Dublin, it was made in London. Dublin and London is a Dublin made pipe.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  35. skipper

    skipper

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    Thanks Jim and Chuck for your replies.
    Both make sense, as I know about the inconsistencies in their stampings.
    I already knew about the London&Dublin and Dublin&London issue. My doubts were related to the production timespan and the stamping being referred to a particular series, as the newer DublinSilver ones.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  36. skipper

    skipper

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    I have just discovered the 1997 catalog from Peterson. It shows the DUBLIN & LONDON pipes as a series in the Classic Range, describing them in page 59 as: "Superior quality briar in golden smooth polished finish available with a Peterson lip or fishtail mouthpiece".

    Posted 2 years ago #
  37. chuckw

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    So much for 1992. Just when I think I've got it right too.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  38. skipper

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    And so much too for my believing at the Kildare as an evolution from the Dublin & London: they are both depicted in the same catalog. The ways of Pete are impenetrable...

    Another question: Three days ago you pointed un to a Laxiom Pete. I bought one myself a couple years ago, a straight smooth Apple with an ebonyte mount and the Great Britain stamping in the mouthpiece.
    Do you have some info about this series? I never heard about it previously, till your tip last week. Clearly it's a middle-lower end one, but I'll love to know about it.
    This is my Laxiom

    Posted 2 years ago #
  39. skipper

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    You can see also in this one the "bevelled" (it's really curved) mouthpiece's end joining the vulcanite mount.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  40. unclearthur

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    I have a question for one of our Peterson gurus . I have been smoking a pipe for over 40 years but just recently became serious about collecting Petersons. My favorite of those I have grabbed up for my collection is a 1312. I have never seen a four digit number on a system standard. What have I got here ? Slightly smaller than a System Standard 312 with a nice long graceful P lip stem.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  41. rxman

    rxman

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    Here is a good one. I have two Mark Twains. Both were purchased at the same store and very close to each other in the late 80's. The COM on both read MADE IN IRELAND but the silver dating indicatesb1984 and 1986. I wonder if the bowls were made pre-republiclic and ignored for awhile and assembled later with the silver dating? I emailed Peterson and they were confused to say the least, and kind of went with my explanation, but really didn't know either way. Can anyone shed light on this? Thanks.

    "Doc" aka Bill
    Member of the Old Codger Society
    ENJOYING LIFE WITH A SMOKE AND GOOD COMPANY-SLAINTE!
    Posted 2 years ago #
  42. thesandpiper

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    Unclearthur does you pipe look similar to the 312 at bottom of catalogue page? Bearing in mind your description of the stem.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  43. thesandpiper

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    Sorry,I am having an off day today!!The image is not loading,please try this link.

    http://sandpiper.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Useful-Things/12331346_CQSAE#1052869556_wDA2W-L-LB

    Posted 2 years ago #
  44. thesandpiper

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    rxman - re the Mark Twain question.The earliest examples of MTs were produced in 1979/80.
    The Pre-Republic era was prior to 1950.It is unlikely that these bowls were from that earlier period.
    Unfortunately examples of Peterson making use of older stamping is quite common,however in this case because it was deemed to be a replica of old Samuels pipe, it may have been stamped accordingly.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  45. skipper

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    I agree with Jim: I have stumbled myself on a couple Mark Twain Petes with the Ireland COM stamping. The first one puzzled me, but on discovering the second one then I also thought at a small jest from the Pete people to reinforce the replica issue.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  46. chuckw

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    Regarding the Laxiom series, I don't know anything about them and except they were made in England. The three contacts I have in Ireland, Angela Fortune, Tony Whelan, both of whom work for Peterson and Paddy Larrigan, a retired master carver with more that 50 years experience with Peterson's, don't recall them either. Yours is only the third one I've seen Skipper. The other two are/were on E-Bay. The vulcanite to vulcanite mount is somewhat unusual and was done only in England. I have a shape 17 Deluxe from the 1920's and an Aboriginal briar from the 1970's with that mount.

    I never thought to check the COM stamps on my Mark Twains until it was mentioned here. Two are stamped Made In The Republic Of Ireland, one is stamped Made In Ireland and the one from the new set has no COM.

    Arthur, your 1312 is a slightly smaller version of the 312 but not a small as the 317. As far as the already mentioned contacts remember, they were made in the 1950's.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  47. rxman

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    Thanks to the both of you, the sandpiper and skipper, I finally figured it was just a jest by someone at Petersons to see if anyone would notice and do what we are doing right here. LOL Take care.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  48. chuckw

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    Here is a link to Peterson's new 2010 catalogue.

    http://www.peterson.ie/pipes/CatalogueCOMP.pdf

    Enjoy the PAD.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  49. thesandpiper

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    Thanks for the catalogue download Chuck.I take it that is for the retailers and not for general public.
    Good to see Peterson getting their act together and producing quality literature.
    Well done.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  50. unclearthur

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    Thanks To everyone who replied! Yes it is a late 40's early 50's pipe according to the circular made in Ireland stamping.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  51. chuckw

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    Made in Ireland in a circle = 1939 through 1947

    Posted 2 years ago #
  52. unclearthur

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    Thanks Chuck! Also thanks for the catalog link. The page on hallmarks is a huge help.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  53. skipper

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    Thanks Chuck!
    Here you have a series, the Military, in a 1957 catalog, showing the vulcanite-to vulcanite mount. This one is howewer a push bit one.

    Also the Belgique and Calabash were provided with vulcanite push mounts before the change to the conventional ones. Mine have the Repiblic of Ireland COM
    I have also a little DeLuxe straight apple with vulcanite push mount.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  54. excav8tor

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    Thanks for the link Chuck...... my bank manager hates you. He reckons you are taking advantage of the afflicted.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  55. excav8tor

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    Does anyone have any info on Peterson's GOLDBLOCK pipes?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  56. thesandpiper

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    From my recollections the 'Goldblock' series of pipes,were the result of a business/publicity partnership by Peterson in the 70's and 80's for Ogdens Goldblock tobacco.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  57. excav8tor

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    Many thanks Sandpiper. I saw one on a popular auction site and was a little curious.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  58. chuckw

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    Thank you Jim. The Goldblock question came up a couple of years ago and no-one had an answer.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  59. skipper

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    I bought a 314 Goldblock one in Madrid in the '70s. It was a bit more expensive as the Standard ones, but it was really a 2nd grade Standard.
    Didn't know the link betwen Peterson and Ogden...

    BTW, Jim, what's really the Star series? At that time in Madrid you could find the System Star, but not the System Premier. I have ever wondered...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  60. thesandpiper

    thesandpiper

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    Hi Erardo,I think you have solved part of the usual Peterson mystery!.I have previously tried to find out more information on the origins of the'Star' series of systems.I have a couple of the ones from the late sixties/seventies.The ones I have, are what I would consider of 'premier' quality,with sterling silver ferrule and a matt red finish and colour.Having said that, I spotted a recent e-bay offering that was a walnut colour? So in answer to your question,I think they were 'Premiums' that were enhanced for selling as a separate series,probably to attract Hippies and flower children!!
    I have still to find out the origin of the series and why it is called 'Star'.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  61. skipper

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    In Spain there were both finishes, red and a light walnut as the "natural" finish of that era. I also believe to have seen (not sure of it, at that time this finish not appealed to me) a couple ebonies.
    I have a wild theory about the name change, relating that to different markets.
    In fact I'm sure the Star IS definitely the Premier: same quality, same finish on the natural ones, same shapes.
    But I don´t know for sure when this name was first introduced, and when it ceased to be used.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  62. thesandpiper

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    Erardo, they have been resurrected and are being sold again.

    http://store.pipesandcigars.com/pestsypi.html

    Posted 2 years ago #
  63. skipper

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    I found then two days ago, and this was the reason for my reawakened interest...
    Can we be sure they are modern ones?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  64. thesandpiper

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    Yes,Petersons started production earlier this year without very much publicity.I spotted some earlier in the year and bought them,the only difference I would comment on is the modern version has a much glossier finish than the older matt finish.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  65. skipper

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    Pity! I loved the matt finish.

    Jim, I have to point you to two series missing in your pipedia article.
    They are the Sports (10 shapes numbered 1 to 10) from the sixties-seventies, little nosewarmers, and it's sucessor, the Outdoor series still found in some shops.
    I loved the Sports pipes. The Sports 3 was my favorite and still it's in my regular rotation.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  66. thesandpiper

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    The Pipedia article is a work in progress Erardo,I have several outstanding additions to that list including the two that you mention.I thank you for taking an interest,I rely on enthusiasts like yourself to keep me right!!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  67. excav8tor

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    My latest aquisition. From a Charity Shop a couple of miles down the road from me. They wanted £2 for it, so I paid them £5 and legged it really quickly.

    A 1980 Premier 314

    Posted 2 years ago #
  68. skipper

    skipper

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    Wow!
    A pretty one indeed. It seems well cared for.
    Congratulations!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  69. thesandpiper

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    Mark,(excav8tor)you should be wearing a black mask and bandanna.That pretty 1980 Premier 314 was a steal!!
    Well done and good health to enjoy it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  70. chuckw

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    It looks as though it cleaned up very nicely.
    Well done Mark

    Posted 2 years ago #

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