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deathmetal

deathmetal

Lifer
Jul 21, 2015
7,714
32
Someone I work with was complaining loudly about smoking. "But it kills people!" she screeched.
I dredged up a technique from the dark days of 1980s high school debate. "Remember Thomas Malthus? He said that population increasingly infinitely, while our capacities for producing food and shelter and stuff are finite. So eventually, everything we do that succeeds ends up defeating us, because we drown in our own population like a yeast bloom or red tide."
She wailed about something else involving how we should all be afraid of death, and I agree with her. I never want to die. But, reality is what it is, and we can only hope that the Good Lord has pity for those of us who probably deserve none. So I had sympathy for her, but I pressed on.
"The fact is that we need more people to die. The more people that survive, the more doomed we are. So smoking is good. Drinking is good. Riding motorcycles really fast is good. Maybe we should think harder about legalizing the dangerous drugs. Oh, and dueling. Knife-throwing. Russian roulette. Anything to stem the tide before it drowns us."
She really didn't like that, but I lit up a bowl of Prince Albert anyway. She'll deal. I left her with the classic quotation that has been on my mind recently:
War is good, AIDS is good, mass murder is good, gang violence is good, crack cocaine is good. Anything that contributed to depopulating the Earth is good.
Click to expand...
Never found the original source, but it makes sense to me. People worry too much about dying. Just smoke what you like and know you're saving the Earth.

 
A

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
In an ironic dichotomy, those who bemoan overpopulation killing Mother Earth are often against anything that could potentially cause death. At least people like that make death seem much more appealing than putting up with their horseshit.

 
mso489

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
I'm not so concerned about global population that I want to die early to help reduce it. We all die, so that's not the question. Equally to the point, I don't believe that catastrophic casualties are a good idea. The healthier and longer-lived people intend to be, the better they will make things for subsequent generations. In fact, elements of comfort and health over time actually reduce the population. Nations and regions that have higher standards of living have lower birth rates. Whereas areas prone to violence and famine have compensatory extremely high birthrates, and vast misery to go with them. So, boring as it may seem, lower populations and longer lives correspond to stable, routine, fairly comfortable lives. Although that isn't what our romantic imaginations crave, that's what most of us prefer over time. So Malthus certainly had his point, but his insight has to be balanced by the rest of what we know, which is quite a bit.

 
A

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
You're right, MSO. Chicago, for example, has much violence and famine, and that corresponding birthrate you're talking about? Holy shit, have they got that one nailed.

 
buroak

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
MSO nailed it. In any case Thomas Malthus has been wrong for so long now that even if reality someday bears out his prediction he will have achieved something less than the success rate of a broken clock.

 
Chasing Embers

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,450
109,397
Valentine is done

Here but now they're gone

Romeo and Juliet

Are together in eternity, Romeo and Juliet

40, 000 men and women everyday, Like Romeo and Juliet

40, 000 men and women everyday, Redefine happiness

Another 40, 000 coming everyday, We can be like they are
Click to expand...
The leading cause of death is living. The worst part of dying is not knowing when or how it will happen. People living terrified of it really don't get to live at all. Don't fear the reaper, in the end he comes for us all. :puffy:

 
A

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
Nothing wrong with Chicago. I was just using it as a close-to-home example of MSO's point. You have to admit, though, in certain parts of Chicago, you may have a good chance of having a lot fewer of those day-to-day days.

 
brian64

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,636
14,757
MSO nailed it.
Click to expand...
+1
Overpopulation and resource scarcity are malicious myths propagated by the psycho eugenicist "elite". If those control freaks believe in population reduction so much they should prove it by offing themselves first.
The Myth of Overpopulation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9RSfK-PNRE

 
A

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
I watched the video. All it really said was "overpopulation is a myth" with no explanation as to why it is a myth, and that the entire population of the globe could live in Texas, without explaining that statement either. The exhortation to "do the math" is well taken, but I am not sure what math I am supposed to do.

 
brian64

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,636
14,757
@aldecaker: Yeah that's the problem when attempting to break down a complex subject into a sound bite (but imo there was a bit more said in that short video than you are suggesting).
But I wasn't really attempting to convince anyone of anything anyway...just spouting my opinion and providing a morsel in case anyone is actually motivated to look further for themselves. There's a LOT more detailed info out there if anyone really cares.
But I would also point out that the idea that the world is overpopulated is also just stated as if it is a proven fact without anything really backing it up either. It's just a pronouncement from establishment academia that we are supposed to accept as gospel. My primary contention is that the problems we typically associate with overpopulation are actually due to overcrowding...there is a big difference.
There are certainly regions of the world with a much higher population density than others. But especially here in the west, it's not true...it's my understanding that the west is experiencing a general decline in population except for migration.
And lastly I would refer back again to MSO's comments because he made some very important points.

 
A

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
MSO is not often off the mark, that's a fact.
I agree that overpopulation and population density are often conflated, sometimes inadvertently, sometimes deliberately to reinforce an argument one way or the other.
The producers of that short video could easily have used a little more meat to bait the hook in that amount of time, IMO.
In the defense of people who are leery of that misery and strife that goes with overcrowding or overpopulation, whichever you choose, I will posit this:
If Area Y has a massive population and the attendant horrors MSO mentioned, and Area X has a lower population that is "stable, routine, and comfortable", would it not be sensible to desire that Area X does not become like Area Y?

 
brian64

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,636
14,757
The producers of that short video could easily have used a little more meat to bait the hook in that amount of time, IMO.
Click to expand...
As I recall, there are longer videos by that same source, but the reason I posted that is because it specifically addresses Malthus.
Also whenever I post a video on anything, I try to find the shortest version I can that speaks to whatever the point is because I know most people are not going to listen to anything that's very long.
If Area Y has a massive population and the attendant horrors MSO mentioned, and Area X has a lower population that is "stable, routine, and comfortable", would it not be sensible to desire that Area X does not become like Area Y?
Click to expand...
Yes, that is perfectly sensible. That is why the intentional policies directed at destabilizing stable areas are so diabolical. As are the socioeconomic policies directed at herding everyone into mega cities.

 
mawnansmiff

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,426
7,369
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
My personal take on overpopulation is that folks believe they have a right to breed even when they have no means to support themselves let alone any offspring.
Bringing people into the world then expecting others to foot the bill is just plain wrong in my book.
Education and contraception are the only things that will stem the flow.
Just my tuppence worth :puffy:
Regards,
Jay.

 
deathmetal

deathmetal

Lifer
Jul 21, 2015
7,714
32
@mawnansmiff:
Thank you. Unfortunately, it is a voice over, and no one knows the source.
@mso489:
Malthus is not trendy now, but mainly because people are focused on this model instead:
http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html
This does not mean that the observation that a finite planet with infinite (continuously growing) demands is not a formula for disaster, or that encouraging people to live more and die more will not be a help!
@aldecaker:
If Area Y has a massive population and the attendant horrors MSO mentioned, and Area X has a lower population that is "stable, routine, and comfortable", would it not be sensible to desire that Area X does not become like Area Y?
Click to expand...
Meaning, do we allow some to escape the herd? Best to pair that with this:
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded--here and there, now and then--are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as “bad luck.”
http://www.angelfire.com/or/sociologyshop/lazlong.html
Click to expand...

 
A

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
Jay, that is something that has always bothered me as well. Then, to make matters worse, if you don't want to foot the bill for these children's every need, YOU are the cruel one, not the imbecile who doomed their own offspring to a life of poverty.

 
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