Help Identify: MLC / Imperial Oom Paul ?

olderthandirt · Dec 18, 2011

Simple block letters, MLC, inside an oval on the shank and on the Sterling band.

Somewhat ornate crown on the other side of the shank with the word Imperial under it in simple block letters in a slight arc.

Hallmarks appear to be Birmingham, either 1917 or 1992 as best I can tell when compared against the charts found here:

http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilverhallmarksBIR.html

I'm thinking 1992 based on the overall shape.

So, is MLC the manufacturer or is it Imperial? I've looked at pipephil, found nothing.
Anyone familiar with this, have any ideas?

markw4mms · Dec 18, 2011

Sorry, I couldn't find any info on this one.

nate · Dec 18, 2011

MLC were the initials for M. Linkman & Co. Could it be an Imperial pipe banded by MLC? The MLC stamps/bands I have seen have had either just the block letters or, as in your case, the letters inside and oval. Any pipes carrying the MLC stamp date back very early in the company (to my recollection) such as your noted date of 1916. I will try and find some more info for you.

nate · Dec 18, 2011

Ahh, I remembered one of the places I learned about it. Here are two links for the MLC branding:
http://www.drgrabow-pipe-info.com/grabowtimeline09.html

http://www.drgrabow-pipe-info.com/historydrb09aa.html
I will try to remember where else I have seen info about MLC.

olderthandirt · Dec 18, 2011

Killer Nate, thanks!

The links you provided along with some further searches they sparked make me think that's a real possibility.

Do you think I've sussed out the hallmarks correctly? While the Linkmans' factory was located in Chicago Illinois the hallmark appears to me to show the city symbol of Birmingham, the date symbol of an S and Lion passant guardant, all indicating British silversmithing.
Ah, lovin' the hunt! (-:

nate · Dec 18, 2011

Boy, I'm not so great at silversmithing. I used to try and figure it out, but different sites said different things. The marks were close to what each site had, but the results varied a great deal. I kinda gave up on hallmarking in most cases, except Petes!

I'd say the timeframe sounds logical, you'd likely have a pipe banded before use (esp. if you could afford it) and I'm sure some were banded after being cracked, e.g. a repair band. Is the shank cracked? If not, I am thinking it would be the earlier of the dates you noted. Thoughts?

olderthandirt · Dec 18, 2011

While it could certainly be a repair band I can see no evidence of defect looking inside the shank.
Most every reference to Linkman's I've been able to find so far has to do with the genesis of the Dr. Grabow line. Anything other than that, such as the lines pipephil has listed, all have the name "Linkmans" prominently stamped on the pipe. Nothing actually showing the MLC logo on the pipe I have.
FWIW here is a better shot of the hallmarks.

ejames · Dec 19, 2011

OTD,you might ask over at the Dr. Grabow Collectors forum about this pipe. There's a couple of gents there who have done a lot of research on MLC.

pentangle · Dec 19, 2011

Looking at the shape of the birmingham anchor whould say 1892.Looking at the S shape whould say 1892 even if the embossed letter is lightly different probably because worn.The Lion passant is also worn and probably correct too even the tail seems to have no curve and legs appears to be joined and the right facade one seems in a different position.The most strange thing to me are the words "sterling silver" That i never seen in a 1892 silver piece as the Lion passant just say that.Anyway i guess it's a 1892 silver work.The question is : Is that pipe so old?According to Nate link,yes could be a very early grabow

Maurizio

withnail · Dec 19, 2011

Looking at the Hallmark I would say it is 1917 - Birmingham - England. Especially as it has the Lion Passant and Sterling.
I would say that it isn't a repair band. If it had been added afterwards the silversmith mark "MLC" wouldn't have been stamped on the pipe.
The only other connection to "Imperial" I can think of is Imperial Tobacco which was incorporated in 1901.
Hope you find some more details and share them here

olderthandirt · Dec 19, 2011

I was starting to wonder if it might be 1892 based on the symbols background shapes.

Background shape, is there a proper term for the shield, the area that surrounds the symbols in the hallmark? That the shape of this aspect of a hallmark is part of determining dates I'd think it would.
I have read several older threads on the Dr.G forum regarding Linkmans, none that I found mentioned the earlier Linkman lines with much detail.

Anyway. Seeing as how M. Linkman & Co. made the 1st Dr. Grabow pipe I should indeed post over to that forum.

withnail · Dec 19, 2011

I am not an expert on hallmarks, but I would say the letter font for the 1862 mark is more Gothic than the one on the silver band.
Didn't Dr. Grabow Pipes start in the USA? With the Birmingham and Lion marks, along with the Imperial Crown, I would say everything points to it being of British origin.
Love the mystery though and hope that you find the final answer soon.
EDIT - Just looked up the Imperial Pipe logo and I must say it looks nothing like what you have stamped on your pipe! http://www.pipephil.eu/logos/en/logo-i.html

olderthandirt · Dec 19, 2011

Agree completely with both points withnail.

While the font for the date letter in the 1892 set doesn't seem the same, as pentangle notes the shape of the symbol field/cartouche for 1892 set seems to be the closest match.

1892 is also the year I find given for the start of the M. Linkman company....
And yes, why would a manufacturer in Chicago have silverwork from England?
So, I've just posted on the Dr. Grabow forum, perhaps a Linkman history buff will see it and have some info!

withnail · Dec 19, 2011

You're right -- the 1917 cartouche has, what I would describe, as a "shield" style at the bottom which is not present on the hallmark.
I'm just doing a couple more searches on Google UK to see if I can find anything else - I'll let you know if I find anything

olderthandirt · Dec 19, 2011

Any clues will be appreciated withnail, thanks!

withnail · Dec 19, 2011

Can't find anything on "MLC" as a silversmiths makers mark, but looking at another Birmingham Date Letter chart, it does seem that 1867 is the most likely. Have a look at http://www.925-1000.com/dlc_birmingham.html According to this chart that date letter wasn't gothic!
Going to go and have a pipe now!

olderthandirt · Dec 19, 2011

Enjoy that pipe withnail!
The field around the 1867 date is much more round than what I have on mine. Also,(according to silvercollection.it)

A further mark was used in the period 1784 - 1890:

Sovereign head ('duty mark'), certifying the payment of the duty
That additional sovereign head is not on mine.
I gotta go get the bowl on this one mudded up so I can smoke the thing darn it!

withnail · Dec 19, 2011

Looking again at the background, it has what could be described as a "clipped" bottom. Compare that to the design on both http://www.925-1000.com/dlc_birmingham.html and

http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilverhallmarksBIR.html

with the mark for 1816 and they look similar. But that would be before Briar became common in the construction of pipes! According to legend, the pipe maker who broke his pipe and got a local craftsman to make him a new one (and so kick starting the use of Briar for the construction of pipes) was on a trip to Napoleons birthplace sometime after Napoleon had died (1821). On the other hand, the hallmark does not look like any of the more recent marks!! A mystery indeed!!!
The lack of Sovereigns head could be due to the size of the piece and the fact that it wasn't for sale in its own right but as a decoration on another item.

ejames · Dec 19, 2011

Couldn't it be possible that Sterling silver bands were imported from England to be added to pipes made here?

withnail · Dec 19, 2011

Couldn't it be possible that Sterling silver bands were imported from England to be added to pipes made here?

I thought that - but in that case, why do the letters MLC appear on both the band as part of the hallmarks and the pipe? Unless the addition of the band made by MLC made the pipe become "model MLC"? I do love a good mystery!

Help Identify: MLC / Imperial Oom Paul ?

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