FDA Deeming Rules: Updates and What Next?

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pryhosm

Lurker
Sep 22, 2017
3
2
With the implementation of the Deeming rules on hold and a glimmer of hope that the current administration may amend the ruling, what happens now? Some question I have for the experts out there are as follows (I am no expert and I am looking for some answers so if something looks stupid, correct it):

-With the law put off until 2020ish can the industry do any or all of the following:

Continue to put out "holiday blends"? If I were McClelland I would have a Christmas Cheer all the way up until the implementation date even if I would have to cut it after that date

- Can pipe shows continue to sample new products at shows up until the implementation date? I could see some blow out "sunset" parties as we move closer

- Does anyone provide updates on lobbyist activities. The idea of managing pipe tobacco blending with this rule is beyond silly. As a person with a background in health care and pharmaceuticals the idea that different blends of leaf from varietals of Latakia, Cavendish, Turkish, Orientals, Virginia's, Perique, etc. is plain old dumb. I can see if additives or other new chemical entities or engineered tobacco's are added being regulated. But the combination of Latakia, VA and Burley is not something that will have a substantial change on PK/PD in the body.

-I'd like to see a manufacturers advocacy group come together and advance the companies positons and at least for the short term take advantage of the delay. I am sure we have not seen the best from McClelland, Hearth and Home, and others. 2 years can produce great things even if fleeting.

-Most importantly if I misunderstand any opportunity the delay may provide, shut this down now. I do realize that nothing changes with the delay and the cost of keeping anything new may be prohibitive, but why not go out in a blaze of glory? Is it not better to burn out than to fade away?

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,775
45,378
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Continue to put out "holiday blends"? If I were McClelland I would have a Christmas Cheer all the way up until the implementation date even if I would have to cut it after that date
Theoretically any blender could put out new blends that enter the market after the August 8th 2016 cutoff date, but they would be required to go through the expensive SE process PRIOR to being allowed to offer it for sale to the public. While the period for registering blends with the FDA has been lengthened to August 8th 2021, the other parts of the Deeming Rule haven't changed. For a blend to avoid this requirement it has to have "existed" prior to the cutoff date.

The effect of this change is that blends introduced to the market after February 15th 2007 and before August 8th 2016 can continue to be sold without passing the FDA's Deeming process until August 8th 2021. Otherwise they would have been toast by August of next year.
As for ridiculous, under the FDA rules a pipe is a tobacco product and could conceivably be required to undergo the Deeming process prior to being available for sale. Let's all line up for $33,000 pipes, shall we?

 

blendtobac

Lifer
Oct 16, 2009
1,237
213
As far as advocacy for pipes and pipe tobacco, it will be minimal at best. Premium cigars dwarf pipe tobacco in total dollars, so the focus has been on cigars, and pipes and pipe tobacco are a footnote in the discussion. It would be wonderful if FDA oversight were to be repealed, but that could only be done by an act of Congress (which is the opposite of progress).
Russ

 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,575
I don't know Rus, This type of regulation is called progress. Although it's progressively destroying somebodies job market.

 

deathmetal

Lifer
Jul 21, 2015
7,714
32
Updates: more parasitism.
What next: armed revolution.
Maybe this time we'll learn the wisdom of Athens, which is that democracy is a parasite.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
This is going to be hard on the business, to say the least. I think pipe smokers themselves will wangle and accommodate in various ways, mixing the blends left on the market for variety, growing their own, probably slowing down their consumption somewhat. So it isn't going to reduce pipe smoking much if at all, but will cause job loss as pipe shop owners, blenders, and others migrate to other work. I have tobacco for years to come, not a huge amount, but plenty for me. Individuals and small communities of people (like pipe smokers) don't get much say. But to squawk effectively is a good skill, and sometimes if you hit the right legislator or sympathetic interest group, you can get unexpected results. If you're moved to do so, write or phone. Writing may be better since it can be passed around or online forwarded.

 

irishearl

Lifer
Aug 2, 2016
2,158
3,808
Kansas
mso489. this always gets me a bit bummed when the topic comes up, particularly those folks who can respond by saying they have enough tobacco to "last them years." I've never cellared due principally to $. If I wanted to cellar enough tobacco to last me only 2 years at my present rate of consumption, that would mean I'd have to have around 24 pounds of it laying around. That would run me over a thousand $. Then if you're talking enough to theoretically last a life-time, am assuming I've got around 20 years left in me...so, yowsa. 8O

 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,575
In the end it's about business. So Progs and Cons let's get together and get rid of Lobbyist.

 

pryhosm

Lurker
Sep 22, 2017
3
2
Thanks for the replies. I didn't have a good understanding of the August '16 cut off. That is a shame. Some great blenders have been doing great things of late. I am relatively new to the pipe (not the cigar) and I was looking forward to my first big pipe show in the Chicago area next year. It seems that this is going to kill the introduction of new blends and any competitions I read about from previous years.

It would almost seem like a tool legislators could use to look like they are giving a concession. Since Pipes and pipe tobacco seem to be a victim of an unintended consequence, the legislators could remove pipe tobacco and pipes from the legislation, look like they "conceded" a bit while really still impacting heavily the rest of the market (not that I want to see cigar sales and quality cigars regulated). Normally an effective negotiation tool to give away what you really don't care about in the first place. We would just need some kind of lobby to make that happen.

I plan to attend the show anyway but it seems that a lot of the fun may be removed.

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,101
By putting businesses out of business FDA makes it impossible for smokers to buy pipes and tobacco. In the end this stops smoking.

 

papipeguy

Lifer
Jul 31, 2010
15,778
35
Bethlehem, Pa.
Folks, remember that there are many grandfathered blends that were sold before the 2006 date. I would guess that there are some blending houses looking to comply with the new deeming rules. To date I have not read what the costs to comply are per blend. Guestimates have ranged all over the place. A lot may be lost but not all.

 
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