Esoterica's Stonehaven and Germain's RDF - A Side-by-Side Comparison

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flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
This is not a formal tobacco review and there has been so much general commentary, particularly around ‘Stonehaven’, that I thought this topic might best be posted here. Apologies for the delay in reporting these impressions but I had two pages of notes that needed condensing. For clarity, I will again present this comparison in the form of an ‘experimental protocol’.
BACKGROUND: Made in Jersey by J.F.Germain&Son for Esoterica, Stonehaven is not available in the UK and even in the US it seems very difficult to source. As a result it seems to have become a ‘cult’ pipe tobacco. When I tasted the samples sent to me by Pat and Troy I understood why it is so popular. I have been smoking flakes for 12 years, having cut my teeth on FVF, BBF, Irish Slices and Bulwark. IMO Stonehaven is an exquisite flake; the rubbed-out aroma has a rum/brandy/port note but also a ‘chocolatey’ element and a slightly minty component which is reminiscent of the smell of an ‘After Eight’ chocolate mint; on smoking the flavours are very rich and deep, still with the hint of chocolate and mint essence; it burns reliably, with NO tongue bite. I won’t go into the history of Germain’s but suffice it to say that it is an ancient tobacco company in Britain’s Channel Isles which still blends tobacco in the traditional way, as it has for at least the last two centuries. It has a small and ‘rate-limited’ production and as a result their ‘flagship’ blend is snapped up and seems to be ‘hoarded’ by afficionados as soon as each shipment arrives, such that the ‘average’ pipe smoker finds it almost impossible to source, thus amplifying its cult status.
Germain’s Rich Dark Flake (RDF) is sold in the UK and seems reasonably easy to source, in my case on-line from “mysmokingshop”. Of potential significance to my comparison RDF is the ONLY Germain’s tobacco sold solely in bulk rather than in their archetypal tins and it is NOT sold in the US, unlike their tins (which can be bought at GLP’s etc). The other significant point relates to comments that have already been made about the remarkable similarities between RDF and Stonehaven, ranging from “very similar to the popular Stonehaven” on mysmokingshop.co.uk to reviews of RDF on “tobaccoreviews.com” including one from a certain “jiminks” who asserts “you won’t get anything closer to Stonehaven”. So, are they just similar or are they actually the same tobacco in different guises?
HYPOTHESIS: Stonehaven and RDF are in reality the same tobacco blend.
MATERIALS and METHODS:

2 flakes each of Stonehaven from Pat’s stash and RDF from my own.

2 new high grade ‘neutral’ clay pipes for the ‘high notes’ (see my previous experiments)

2 Chris Askwith ‘neutral’ Mortas (for the ‘base notes’ – wider bowls)

The tobaccos were compared in two flights, one in the evening with the clays and the other the next morning with the Mortas. In each flight I smoked the relevant pipes side-by-side, swapping over to the other after each third of the smoke.
RESULTS:

1. The flakes seemed identical in appearance. They were both quite thin and dry with the same rectangular dimensions. The ‘patterns’ of the pressed tobaccos, whilst not constituting a ‘finger print’, were indistinguishable; there were dark patches of hard-pressed Burley with longer threads of light Va interspersed in a fashion which seemed characteristic of these tobaccos rather than my other flakes.

2. The aromas after rubbing out the two flakes were IMO identical; there was an intoxicating smell of brandy/rum/port and that slight minty note on top of the plummy, chocolatey background.

3. Even smoking in in the clays there was an immediate deep plummy, but also chocolatey, taste which persisted through all three stages. At each changeover I felt I didn’t want to put down the pipe and at no stage was there even a hint of tongue burn (something I have not previously experienced with any other tobacco through the ‘pinhole’ bore of the clays’ bit). At all stages the tobaccos tasted identical.

4. The same was also true on day 2 with the Mortas; at no stage did the tobaccos taste different and at each stage the pipe felt ITPD (impossible to put down!) and I did not wish to interrupt the smoking to make the changeover. Again I could taste no difference between the RDF and Stonehaven.
CONCLUSIONS: Based on their appearance and their smoking qualities in clay and Morta pipes, the samples of RDF and Stonehaven flakes I compared were identical. Of course these are my subjective ‘non-blinded’ observations but I was trying to be as analytical and objective as possible, something I have been trained to do in my ‘day job’.
SPECULATIONS: It is possible that Germain’s blenders (God bless them!!) make minor alterations/additions to RDF and Stonehaven for the respective UK and US markets, possibly to comply with contractual agreements with Esoterica, but in these samples I could not detect them. It may also be telling that RDF is the only Germain’s tobacco sold in bulk in the UK, the rest are tinned.
FUTURE WORK: A senior colleague in our Chemistry department has already agreed to perform state-of-the-art mass spectroscopy on these samples to give me a ‘chemical fingerprint’ of each. However this type of analysis is so sensitive that it may be influenced by minor chemical changes associated with batching/ageing so as a ‘control’ I would be grateful if Pat, Roth, Peck or anyone else who is familiar with Stonehaven could suggest a VaBur flake which is as similar as possible, ideally available in the UK.
ADDENDUM: Since the above comparison I have purchased two further 500g packets of RDF. Before jarring, the flakes in the latest example were moist, ‘looser’ in appearance and the aroma was definitely ‘fruitier’ and with more brandy/port notes than the earlier drier examples. So even with a single named blend there may be batch differences, perhaps not surprising in a relatively small output organisation like Germain.
SIGNIFICANCE: IMO pipers in the UK need no longer be concerned about sourcing US ‘Stonehaven’. Similarly NA pipe smokers, desperate for a ‘taste’ of Stonehaven, could source it as ‘RDF’ from the UK, but at a price!

 
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Reactions: mumbles

fitzy

Lifer
Nov 13, 2012
2,937
27
NY
In the US Germain sells something called Brown Flake. I've been wondering for a long time if it's the same.
Also I have a feeling that their Special Latakia Flake is the same as Penzance.

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
flakey, that was a most impressive comparison, thanks for taking the time to do it. I had always wondered whether I should take the time and expense to go after RDf, now I know I don't need to bother. I completed my cellar for Stonehaven months ago and have no desire to chase another hard to find.

 

flyguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2012
1,018
4
Thanks for the review, flakey. I suspected as much. I have attempted to order RDF from the UK but am told they will not ship to the US. Is there a source that will ship to the US?

 

northernneil

Lifer
Jun 1, 2013
1,390
1
Fitzy, I have tried Penzance and Special Latakia Flake, they are nothing alike. The SLF is a very spicy latakia blend where the Penzance is a much creamier smoke. I have also tried Germains Brown Flake, but not Stonehaven, so cannot speak to that comparison.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@fitzy, as a result of the above I am starting to have the same kind of thoughts. But they need to be tested.
@Harris, lucky you!! I love Stonehaven/RDF. A very sensible response, Sir!! LOL

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@roth, thanks. That's very helpful; I'll go with the ODF since I already have some - it only needs a broad comparator.

 

thedudeabides

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 6, 2013
108
1
This is a really terrific comparison with the level of detail that truly lends credibility to the analysis. While taste is subjective, I'm convinced by your "work" (is pipe-smoking work???) that these two are similar enough to smoke whichever one you can get your hands on in today's crazy tobacco marketplace! Thank you flakyjakey for a well-written post.

 

rebornbriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 21, 2013
250
1
United Kingdom
Excellent comparison and with your delicate palate for wines, I would trust that this transmits to your tobacco tasting as well.
Just a few interesting pointers - apparently RDF has only become available on the market again in the last couple of years. I have no clues to its original history. Was it available before Stonehaven or after. Chicken or egg?
I have just received a sample of 8 year old RDF, so this pre-dates the hiatus in UK supply. The person who gifted it to me said it was in plain gold vacuum sealed bags with an inner plastic tray. The tin note of the older tobacco is definitely much more chocolatey, and the fruity alcoholic notes are more in the background - the opposite of the newer tobacco. The older tobacco is also more moist than its modern counterpart and when rubbing it out it falls into small chunks almost like a cube cut, whereas the newer tobacco rubbed out still maintains an element of tobacco strands.
So I wonder is all this due to the process of ageing, or as Flaky intimated, just a difference in batch production?

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
456
What a fantastic review Flakey. You have seemingly answered a question that I have always wondered about. Many thanks for this. I chase both Stonehaven and Penzance, and I think they are both worth the chase.

 

nachman

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 27, 2013
228
3
ADDENDUM: Since the above comparison I have purchased two further 500g packets of RDF. Before jarring, the flakes in the latest example were moist, ‘looser’ in appearance and the aroma was definitely ‘fruitier’ and with more brandy/port notes than the earlier drier examples. So even with a single named blend there may be batch differences, perhaps not surprising in a relatively small output organisation like Germain.

I have compared the Stonehaven and RDF, although not in as controlled an experiment, and could not tell any difference. The difference in the two samples you mention is, most likely, due to aging. Stonehaven changes quite a bit with age in just the way you describe. I prefer it young, but it is always good.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@scarborian, that is an excellent point. I have not yet noticed this with their Brown Flake (which I love) but yesterday for the first time I tried the Special Latakia Flake because I love GH&Co's Balkan Flake. The appearance of the SLF was EXACTLY as you describe! (I loved that too).
Of further interest in relation to your point, but not mentioned in the above comparison, my first 500g batch of RDF from 'mysmokingshop' was dry and rubbed/crumbled easily - like a flake that had been 'aged'. I liked it so much and because it was 'in stock' ordered on-line another 500g. However there was a delivery delay (most unlike that outlet) and when I enquired they told me "they were waiting for it to come in from Jersey". When it did arrive this batch was more moist in texture and had a stronger aroma of fruit and strong spirits than the first batch - ?more fresh/less aged. So, I think you are right!

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@reborn, I think misterlowercse might be able to give us the lowdown on your history question. It's interesting that the first batch of RDF I received was exactly as you describe for your older flake, so possibly it relates to batch variations? My three batches arrived as you describe - gold foil packs, each with two plastic trays containing the beautifully arranged flakes.
@peck, you may be relieved to know that you don't need to chase RDF as well as Stonehaven lol

 

pruss

Lifer
Feb 6, 2013
3,558
370
Mytown
What a detailed process, and fantastic write-up, Flaky! Kudos to you, sir.
I have enjoyed the new iteration of Three Nuns, but would suggest that it is a different animal than Stonehaven, entirely different. The new Three Nuns is pressed into coins, they are golden blonde and honey coloured with some darker brown in each twist. Whereas the Stonehaven I've smoked has all been much darker. I found the flavours in Three Nuns range from citrus into honey and caramelized sugars versus the deeper dried fruit and spice notes of the Stonehaven.
I like both tobaccos, but wouldn't recommend Three Nuns as a match to Stonehaven.
-- Ppat

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
flakey, last December I traded for a couple of ounces of Stonehaven and fell in love with it. I then proceeded to make it my mission in life to get enough for the next 25 years. Through a couple of trades and buying all I could find, I ended up with 14 pounds only 5 months later. One guy sold me 3 pounds of 2007 stock which is really tasty and now I am comfortable with what I have in the cellar. It did take a lot of phone calls and some luck, but it was definitely worth the chase.
To my tastes the closest blend to Stonehaven I have tried is the Old Dark Fired, to me they could be brother and sister. Another blend that is also in the same ball park is Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky, however that one has not been made for years. I have one 100 gram tin from 1997 left of that one and will probably crack it at the 20 year mark. I smoked my second to last one of those in the summer of 2012 and it was incredible. If you ever see that one for sale, do not hesitate as I am sure you would enjoy it.
I also have about 13 pounds of Solani Silver Flake in the cellar as I really enjoy that as well, but it is very different to my tastes than Stonehaven or ODF.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
...I think misterlowercse might be able to give us the lowdown on your history question.
I can't help much here, info is scarce...
...but I do know that they've made something called Hampton Rich Dark Flake that was tinned, but in a 1987 book I have by Jakob Groth reviews the RR'd version and says it's a kraftig periquesmag, strong perique smoke, so I dunno...

...this may be hard-to-see fine print, but it does list the Hampton Rich Dark Flake circa 1983,

http://www.legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=qwc09a00&page=3
...and an old trademark, filed in 1973

http://trade.mar.cx/DE936384
Here, you can see a reprint of an old P&T article about JFG and a visit to the factory, from an old Tobacconist magazine...it's a good read

http://www.legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=bjp09b00&page=63
The oldest JFG tin I've ever come across is this old cutter-top, very cool and rarely seen:

3yAEGd0.jpg


eWpSqhj.jpg

I've always kinda thot of StoneHaven as a classic UK dark flake, in my mind being a close relative to St. Bruno, but there were many different ones on the market, like what would Warlock had tasted like?
I'm still in the dark, but this range of Wills's dark flakes suggest they had a broad brush of different sauces and flavor profiles, and I still contend that much of the deepdowndark intense goodness was/is a result of the steam-jacketed presses, a British innovation for sure, but looking at this spread, which has your beloved Bulwark y'see, it makes ya wonder how each of 'em tasted!!!

9ILrkvw.jpg


ou5D8db.jpg

FUTURE WORK: A senior colleague in our Chemistry department has already agreed to perform state-of-the-art mass spectroscopy on these samples to give me a ‘chemical fingerprint’ of each.
Now, that's something I can't wait to see!

You've already done great work here, to supplement it with technical chemical analysis blows my mind, good stuff fersure and interestin' giddiness...
Flakyjakey is hereby awarded the Sherlock Holmes Award of Astute Tobacco Analysis!

DUPNXhU.jpg

...of interest may be this old document from the Imperial scientific control laboratories, one of my faves, got it printed out 'n everything, really dig how the N & sugars are listed etc, fun stuff!

http://www.legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/fij43a99

:

:

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@Harris, you are indeed a lucky man, not only because of your Stonehaven stash but also in your deep on-line friendship with Peck!! LOL. Speaking of "deep" I have a tin of the Old Dark Fired from friend mlc and I will use that as the VaBur 'control' in the NMR spectroscopic analysis of Stonehaven vs RDF.
@Troy, I knew you would come through - you always do! I hereby name you 'PS Forum Tobacco Historian' but don't have a funny cartoon in your honour, and even if I did I wouldn't know how to post it!! LOL. I will devour and digest the info above - I am growing to love many of Germain's tobaccos, and stimulated by your pics of that ancient tin 'King Charles' Mixture' is next up, although I NEVER smoke mixtures (except for 'Maltese Falcon', 'Odyssey'.........!! LOL)

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
flakey, that analysis you are going to have done is going to be very interesting, I am really looking forward to hearing the results.
peck and me friends? I freaking hate the guy. :mrgreen:

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Yep,

Germain's definitely has a signature house style, when ya smoke one ya know zactly where it's from.
Poor man's SH can be Blackpool + burley of some sort, I've experimented with BP+Solani ABF with good effect.
I fell in love with Hastings, a nice shaggy semi-aro, I need to try Woodbridge!
Tilbury in tins is super good, now I think about it, today I'm gonna mix Tilbury with Blackpool and see how it is!

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Bonus points
In that Sherlock panel, the detailed cartoonist took the time to use an actual existing brand for the tin art.
Can you, dear clever reader, use your powers of deduction to name that tin?
A hint:

GPGC

 
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