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Dunhill Pipe Tobacco - A message from STG Lane

(120 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by Leonard Wortzel
  • Latest reply from woodsroad
  1. leonardw

    Leonard Wortzel

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    Hi All:
    As you may have seen in a separate thread, BAT (owner of the Dunhill brand), has announced that it has decided to 'cease trading' with Dunhill pipe tobacco and cigars.

    STG Lane is the importer for the pipe tobacco here in the U.S.

    Here is what we know: BAT plans to cease trading Dunhill Pipe Tobacco in the U.S. in the next 12 - 18 months. The decision was the result of an internal BAT business review.

    That is ALL we know right now. At the point of this writing, anything else you may read or hear regarding the precise business reasons behind the decision, exact timing, etc., should be considered pure speculation.

    As we learn more about the fate of this beloved brand, we will of course keep you informed.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. ssjones

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    Thanks Leonard, we appreciate your communication and participation on the forum. I'll stay tuned for further developments.

    Al

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. crashthegrey

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    Leonard, thank you so much for posting and keeping the speculation in check. I think I speak for many when I say we truly appreciate that.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. philobeddoe

    Philo Beddoe

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    Thank you Leonard, for clarifying the different rumors, much appreciated.

    "So it goes." - K.V.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. theloniousmonkfish

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    It's reassuring to hear something from someone on the inside. Even though it's not exactly positive it's at least not speculative.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. andrew

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    Let the hoarding begin

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. ashdigger

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    I prefer the rumor that the world is ending.

    But, thank you for what you posted.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. cosmicfolklore

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    That there will be no more Duhill pipe tobaccos, and yet they will still sell colognes that I have never even seen in person, much less smell is kind of weird to me.

    Michael
    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. lightmybriar

    lightmybriar

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    Thank you for the information.

    On a pipe adventure
    Steve
    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. theloniousmonkfish

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    "I prefer the rumor that the world is ending."

    Who told you that's a rumor?

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Well, that sucks.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. iamn8

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    This is such HUGE news that I'm shocked it's drawing such little reaction. If Dunhill tobacco isn't worth keeping in their portfolio, what does it say about the health of the industry? I thinks this is just about as serious as tobacco news gets. Luckily, I have enough tobacco to last the rest of my life, but this is still shocking news.

    Nate @ Moody AL
    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. woodsroad

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    The rumor that I heard was that they had run out of the secret ingredient: Alfred's DNA.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. georged

    georged

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    If Dunhill tobacco isn't worth keeping in their portfolio, what does it say about the health of the industry?

    England is PC mad in general, anymore, and anything tobacco related has been getting the official stinkeye for quite a while. This latest is simply the next (predictable) step from a company that lost its heart years ago. "The White Spot", indeed. Dunhill's home page doesn't so much as whisper the "t-word" anywhere.

    https://www.dunhill.com/us

    At this point, no one but a pipe hobbyist or someone older than 40 would know that Dunhill ever had anything to do with tobacco, never mind was founded on it.

    In short, I consider the situation more the result of an ever-decreasing quantity of testosterone in the leadership gene pool of a once glorious and amazing culture than anything else.

    Whether or not England's recent rejection of the "Global Citizen" vision of unicorn bunnies and rainbow farms (a.k.a. the "Brexit" vote) is enough to turn the ship remains to be seen.

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. curl

    curl

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    there go the Dunhill sales promotions.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. theloniousmonkfish

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    Dunhill site has no search results for tobacco and only one for pipe.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. bluegrassbrian

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    Does this affect pipe production or just the tobacco blends?

    Tobacco's a help because it clears the mind
    But like all your friends it is vilified
    They always say, the right amount's fine
    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. p4ttythep3rf3ct

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    @bluegrass Seems likely one would follow the other unless there is a sea-change in public perception to drive sales.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. jefff

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    It seems to me that any pipes or tobacco bought with the hope of a good investment is a shattered dream.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    cally454

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    I guess they have enough people buying $1500.00 briefcases, $350.00 dress shirts etc. to shutter the baccy business. Wonder how big that segment is?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. blendtobac

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    Dunhill pipes, now referred to as White Spot, are a separate entity. You can't tell the players without a scorecard anymore.

    Russ

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. sothron

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    Sad.

    I hope the PC crowd is happy.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. jpmcwjr

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    Thanks, Leonard.

    Well, the Dunhill marque in tobacco is still worth quite a bit, I'd think. Further, that Dunhill itself is exiting the pipe tobacco business doesn't mean —necessarily—that Dunny tobaccos will cease to be produced and sold. So, what I am saying is I wouldn't be surprised if BAT sold all the rights to the name and blends to someone, er, such as Lane.... Now, there's some speculation!!

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. jacks6

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    It's probably not worth it. Paying for the trademark / rights + spending additional money to have each blend go through the FDA ringer and then they may not even be approved to be sold.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. mikestanley

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    It seems pretty clear to me and. it's been mentioned here, that Dunhill has been working rather hard at eliminating the association between Dunhill and tobacco. I suspect, this, more than profit are driving this train. I guess time will tell.

    Mike S.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Mike Stanley

    + 1. Well, really + 1/2. Still going to be in cigarettes. At least according to the releases. Maybe just a matter of time there, too.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. jefff

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    Marty Pulvers has been railing against Dunhill for a while now. If you google his name and Dunhill you can find his rant about The White Spot".

    Its also on Greg Pease, Briar and leaf chronicles

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    I guess they have enough people buying $1500.00 briefcases, $350.00 dress shirts etc. to shutter the baccy business. Wonder how big that segment is?

    Big enough. Dunhill has long been much more about life style and image than a particular line of products. I remember visiting the Beverly Hills store several times in the early '90's and the pipes and tobacco were a distinctly minor part of the space. Most of it was given over to clothing, jewelry, and various other "requisites".

    Dunhill is about "the good life". When pipes fit into that they played a more central role. But that hasn't been the case for decades. I still wear my Dunhill tie clip on occasion.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    If Royal Yacht goes, the world will be a darker and lonelier place.

    "My own experience has been that the tools I need for my trade are paper, tobacco, food, and a little whiskey." -- William Faulkner

    The Metal Mixtures
    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. ashdigger

    ashdigger

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    Deathmetal, unfortunately, it sounds like that ship is sailing.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  31. deathmetal

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    My message to Nigel Farage:


    Dear Mr. Farage,

    Let me underestimate my estimation of you by saying that I appreciate everything you have done and smile each time I see you in my news feed.

    I cannot vote for you, and do not have enough money to send you the amount that you deserve, but I wished to bring up a topic of great concern:

    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/dunhill-pipe-tobacco-a-message-from-stg-lane

    In this message, Lenoard Wortzel, the product manager for STG Lane tobacco group, confirms that the great British tobacco brand 'Dunhill' is likely to be no longer produced.

    Dunhill is a symbol of Britain, in addition to amazing tobaccos. I know you are a cigar aficionado, and so perhaps you will nod along with me when I say it is one of the finest Virginias I have ever encountered. But even more, Dunhill tobaccos are British culture and excellence exported to the world.

    If there is anything you can do... it is too much to hope for, I suppose, but if anyone can do it, you can.

    Sincerely,

    Brett Stevens

    Posted 2 years ago #
  32. weezell

    weezell

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    I suspect, this, more than profit are driving this train.
    I beg to differ. The Engineer of the train is ALWAYS the money trail(One way or another)...

    "the weez"...
    Posted 2 years ago #
  33. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    @ashdigger:

    Hold me...

    @weezell:

    High costs of regulations also can kill otherwise profitable brands.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  34. jefff

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    This means my tin of Royal Yacht will be worth THOUSANDS!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  35. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    I am working on my will. All the light has gone out of life.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  36. jefff

    jefff

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    I'll sell it to YOU for only....400,00

    I am a giver!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  37. edgreen

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    I guess Beverly really is a cow (see closed thread on this subject)

    Tobacco's a musician.And in a pipe delighteth;It descends in a close,Through the organ of the nose, With a relish that inviteth.
    Barten Holiday
    Posted 2 years ago #
  38. beefeater33

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    Sounds to me that Dunhill tobaccos will still be made, just un-available here in the states? Am I reading this correctly?........

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."
    Willy Wonka
    Posted 2 years ago #
  39. ashdigger

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    Jefff, you're doing God's work.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  40. lonefrog615

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    @Beefeater
    That is excatly how I read it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  41. dread

    dread

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    Well.

    Sh!t.

    ". . . I am the master of my fate:
    I am the captain of my soul."
    - INVICTUS
    Posted 2 years ago #
  42. jefff

    jefff

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    So eloquent.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  43. beefeater33

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    At any rate the costs to obtain them will go up. I've heard it for years, and it's worth repeating...... "stock up, cause it ain't getting any cheaper"...........

    Posted 2 years ago #
  44. dread

    dread

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    So eloquent.

    It's a gift.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  45. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Royal Yacht is sunk.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  46. warren

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    Disclaimer: Unless you have an interest in the rather arcane business of business this will be a boring read.

    Dunhill still means quality, very high end and expensive quality. The marque is updated, the labor intensive products gone, and no connection with tobacco products I know of today. The company manufactures nothing and is beholding only to Richemont (see below). It designs, contracts for and oversees the manufacture of, and vends clothing, pens, tie clips, leather cases and other items. But, they realized, sooner than many, pipe tobacco blending is a labor intensive operation with a shrinking market. No reason to play in that sandbox any longer and so rid themselves of the marque and the recipes, thus improving the financial health of their company. If the look of many of their products resembles Mont Blanc it's because Alfred Dunhill owns/owned Mont Blanc. Of course Richemont had a stake in Dunhill and the company which purchased the recipes and marque.

    Richemont, an investment company, is the spider whose web holds interests in Alfred Dunhill and therefore Mont Blanc, British American Tobacco, Cartier as well as many other luxury companies. A superficial study of their purchases and divestitures will boggle the mind and at the same time fill in the blanks in re Alfred Dunhill and Dunhill tobacco products. Be prepared to devote time to your study. It boils down to neither Dunhill nor Alfred Dunhill are in control of their destinies and haven't been in many years.

    As shareholders in Rothmans, BAT and other tobacco interests Richemont creates many of the mergers (sometimes the death of) of the brands they have a controlling interest in. They seem to be very good at growing profits through mergers, acquisitions and divestitures. BAT is really not in control of their destiny, they are simply one of the many pawns in play and Compagnie Financiere Richemont is the major player in the game.

    The desires of our small population of pipes smokers here are only only important as they relate to the bottom line of Richemont with respect to the demise of Dunhill blends. I suspect the principals of Richemont are not interested in profit, they want PROFITS.

    These are the guys Dan and company are up against. A few hundred thousand dollars is pocket change to Richemont should they desire to introduce new tobaccos. There are no PROFITS in pipe blends, and so, no interest in the market. Cigarettes are a different animal entirely. PROFITS are in cigarettes these days with respect to tobacco use. Too many hands involved in blending pipe tobacco for PROFITS. Fewer humans in cigarette manufacturing equals higher profits. Cigars are much the same in spite of the "hand rolled" claims. Machines have replaced the smooth, young thighs pretty much.

    So, if you folks can recruit another 10 or 15 million pipe smokers, most of whom want Dunhill branded blends, you might get your Royal Yacht back.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  47. sothron

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    Just ordered 20 tins. Am I being suckered? :/

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    cally454

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    ^^^spot on^^. They'll probably pay lip service too " it's for the greater good,children, and health". If that segment had the profits and volume they're accustomed too they'd run the pc' police over with their tobacco distribution trucks

    Posted 2 years ago #
  49. ophiuchus

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    @Leonard Wortzel Thank you. The news is appreciated, as well as updates.

    I guess hoarding wasn't so crazy after all. If it all pans out for the worse, it won't be the first time Dunhill disappeared from American shelves.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  50. beefeater33

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    Will they change the name to Done Hill?...........

    Posted 2 years ago #
  51. p4ttythep3rf3ct

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    @Beefeater USA and Netherlands, at least, both mentioned in the same week. I imagine this is it, worldwide, for Dunhill pipe tobacco. Until someone buys it, changes the blend ever so slightly, and reintroduces it for the world to crave.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  52. cosmicfolklore

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    Funny, Dunhill will most likely continue making cologne. I wonder how many people have ever even seen Dunhill cologne in a store, much less knows what it smells like.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    cally454

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    It just dawned on me that Dunhill tobacco was the only product that didn't fit their business model. I might be mistaken but I don't know of any of their other products that they actually competed with the masses in the market place. All of Dunhill's product offerings are marketed as an image brand and had the price tag to go along with that marketing. Many would argue it's the same with the pipes. The tobaccos are some of the best values in the marketplace IMHO. Some of the sales our sponsors put on were unbelievable. They control their retail environment so nobody's getting a deal on anything else. It could be as simple as that, they want to cease brand erosion. The negative connotation with smoking and lower profits would factor in as well. Coach pulled out of Macy's months ago for the same reason. Too steep of discounts made them look cheap.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  54. perdurabo

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    LOL, thank god we got some news from someone who knows wtf their talking about. Looks like BAT was looking for any reason to Dump the Pipe and Pipe tobacco. Their business and their decision. Royal Yacht (the new incarnation) is by far the only tobacco that's worth crying about IMHO, but that'll only last for about a second( there we go, tissue anyone?) I'd rather spend the money elsewhere, than to give it to another PC(In this instance Government Worshipping) Company that supports flat out tyranny. Now the company may not want to be involved in the pipe tobacco business and that's fair, at least they can sell the blends to Someone, make some capital and everybodies happy. If not, their PC Scumbags. Smoke Cornell and Diehl instead.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 2 years ago #
  55. perdurabo

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    On the serious note, I'll step out of the way and allow those who love these blends to have one less horder to deal with. "In Royal Yacht We Trust"

    Time to sail another ship, Black Frigate, anyone.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    cally454

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    If they're doing it for PC reasons, I can't see them selling the rights. The bean counters are going to ask the CEO if he wants to be dragged into a lawsuit in 10 years ala Cigarettes because their names on the tin. Just the formula makes no sense to me.

    It's alarming to me. They may not make your favorites but when they come to take your brand down...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  57. pappymac

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    Read the original post carefully.
    "Here is what we know: BAT plans to cease trading Dunhill Pipe Tobacco in the U.S. in the next 12 - 18 months. The decision was the result of an internal BAT business review."

    According to that one line, BAT is planning to stop selling pipe tobacco in the U.S. It doesn't address whether they are stopping all production or stopping selling pipe tobacco in the UK or Europe.

    I am glad we have a good admin and responsible moderators.

    Heave to you dark colored ship under sail! Prepare to be boarded!
    Posted 2 years ago #
  58. cosmicfolklore

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    According to that one line, BAT is planning to stop selling pipe tobacco in the U.S. It doesn't address whether they are stopping all production or stopping selling pipe tobacco in the UK or Europe.

    This thread started in another thread with Arnie saying that Dunhill was no longer going to be selling pipe tobacco in Holland. So... between the two posts, we can deduce that this is not just an American thing.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  59. daveinlax

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    Funny, Dunhill will most likely continue making cologne.

    It just dawned on me that Dunhill tobacco was the only product that didn't fit their business model. I might be mistaken but I don't know of any of their other products that they actually competed with the masses in the market place. All of Dunhill's product offerings are marketed as an image brand and had the price tag to go along with that marketing. Many would argue it's the same with the pipes.

    Keep in mind this is not Alfred Dunhill ltd. this is about British American Tobacco.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  60. warren

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    In many fewer words this time: It's not about the wants/needs/desires of a few pipe smokers! I also doubt BAT made the decision, the "Mother Ship" most likely was the final arbiter. Perhaps they also originated the idea after evaluating BAT and finding doing away with "Dunhill" branded pipe tobacco blends would improve the "bottom line." The luxury cigarettes are being continued. That alone speaks volumes.

    So, it's not a so-called "PC" issue as the Dunhill name will still face packages of luxury cigarettes.

    Perhaps the situation will change in the future. They still own the name and recipes; so they can revive the brand should it become economically sound to do so. Again, convince a few millions of people to take up the pipe, make the recipes valuable again.

    After reviving "Dunhill" pipe blends perhaps we can do the same for Pontiac, Bovril (in America), the Mountain Bar, and other departed brands we grew up with. Puffed Rice? Saab? Stinson? The list of revered, long departed brands is nearly endless.

    Dan? Any thought to reviving Saab? You guys are doing a decent job with your tobaccos. Perhaps you are ready for a new challenge?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  61. mso489

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    Maybe the blends and brand should be sold to Lane, Cornell & Diehl or McClellands at a price within their reach, and the proceeds could be used to remodel the lobby at corporate headquarters at BAT, rather than just sacking the brand, which doesn't seem like a brilliant business decision. Thank you for this post confirming the indeterminate future of the Dunhill pipe tobaccos. I thought there might be a decisive kernel under all that corporate flapdoodle in their memo, but I should know better.

    Hmmm, maybe remodeling the whole lobby would be a bit high -- maybe a piece of sculpture to adorn the lobby, supporting the arts while they're at it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  62. toobfreak

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    I consider the situation more the result of an ever-decreasing quantity of testosterone in the leadership gene pool

    Welcome to the feminization of the modern male. As to Dunhill tobaccos, chances are good that they will turn up again somewhere, perhaps under a different label and name, but still the same tobaccos.

    Maybe the blends and brand should be sold to Lane, Cornell & Diehl or McClellands at a price within their reach

    I doubt any such thing will happen until this tobacco war madness levels off and companies can assess the risks.

    To Master Po: Is it not being able to see that makes you tire of life?
    Master Po: No! It is being able to hear!
    Posted 2 years ago #
  63. dread

    dread

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    I do wonder if the recent massive increase in different types of blends that are available, at least for now, has anything to do with reducing the profitability of the brand. maybe the bottom line really isn't worth it from a business perspective.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    casinoroyale

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    Thanks Leonard. Hopefully someone picks up the Dunhill brands. In the meantime, looks like I picked the wrong six months to start smoking a pipe.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  65. mso489

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    toobfreak, yeah, maybe buying a brand and blends right now would be too far a reach for anyone. Even the six or eight longest standing Dunhill blends would be vulnerable if sold to someone else. 965 and Nightcap just going away sounds crazy, but I guess I would get used to it. This could generate quite a black market, and lots of phony products.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  66. toobfreak

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    looks like I picked the wrong six months to start smoking a pipe

    Or maybe the BEST time. The industry needs more people out there buying pipes and tobacco, not fewer, and there is unprecedented selection and maybe good deals. Stock up.

    mso, isn't that a thought of a black market on Dunhill blends? Or fake ones repackaged in used tins? I suppose anything is possible and I won't be buying any deals off of eBay or from the guy in the alley wearing a trench coat (Pssst! Buddy! Royal Yacht $5/tin?), but I think market pressures are such that with so much political weight times the number of new blends out there people are divesting their tobacco dollars on, this might just be the edge of a necessary contraction back down to what the present market can really bear.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    jitterbugdude

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    And strangely enough Dunhill tobacco is not selling like hotcakes. I've checked Smoking Pipes a few times and their Dunhill blends seem to be moving rather slow.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  68. warren

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    The "brand" is obviously valuable... for cigarettes, not pipe blends. So, they'll keep the brand. If the price is right I'd bet the investors would sell in a minute. The right price will be predicated on the cigarettes, not the blends. Luxury cigarettes return on investment (Nat Sherman sale is a case in point). There simply are not enough of us, pipe smokers, toinduce investors to keep making the blends. The moneys are in cigarettes, a growing market, lots of demand worldwide.

    Investors invest only when there is an expectation of a reasonable return on such. If Dunhill had been a small company, only making blends for pipes, showing only sufficient profit to put a car in the garage and food on the table for the owners, there would have been little interest from serious investors and the brand would have been safe, unattractive as an investment. The pipe tobacco blending business simply has too little profit to be attractive to serious (read big money) investors.

    If there were good profits to be reaped... we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Not sure why a "black market" would develop simply to provide product for a relative handful of consumers. Even black marketeers consider profit to be made from illegal operations. Again, it's profit motive which drives the business, not the desires of a tiny market. Now making ersatz tins and loading them up with some Lane blend, to be sold at a premium? Might be some profit there. New smokers wouldn't know the difference, some of us would decry the fraud and few would care.

    The owners of the Dunhill name will guard the name. The very idea of creating yet another Dunhill brand, which would create even more confusion than we see on this thread, would not be in the best interests of the owners. Dunhill, as a marque, has value. The blends? Not so much.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  69. cosmicfolklore

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    I am always amazed at how delusional we get when we think of pipe tobacco businesses. Do you really think anyone gets rich in this market? Ha ha. We are a demographic about the same size as crossdressers and transvestites. You could actually make about the same money making men's size 10-14 high heel pumps.

    Any of you pipe tobacco moguls out there own a private jet? Go to Louisiana and look at the barn with the world's entire supply of perique. It could fit in my garage if stacked just right.

    To put it in perspective... The cigarette industry, comparatively, could be called the mall, with huge sprawling parking lots, stores, multi levels, etc... The cigar industry would be the shed the tractors that mow the mall's grass is stored, and the pipe industry would be the glove compartment on one of the tractors.

    Ain't no one getting rich off of pipe smokers these days. Sure, a company can make mortgage payments based on sales, but rich? profits margins? etc... You might make more money selling monkey costumes for pugs.

    A company wants to wrap it up and stop making pipe tobacco? Well... they probably just got tired of beating their heads against the wall.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  70. woodsroad

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    Warren is the clear thinker here.

    Dan? Any thought to reviving Saab?

    Or...maybe not!

    Posted 2 years ago #

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