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Do You Think Charatan Made This One?

(26 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by snagstangl
  • Latest reply from jpmcwjr
  1. snagstangl

    snagstangl

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    Picked this up for under 9 bucks. It says made in london engalnd.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. snagstangl

    snagstangl

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    Chamber is 1" by 2 1/8 "

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. owen

    owen

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    I often keep an eye out for Charatan seconds and this would have caught my attention for what that's worth.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. philobeddoe

    Philo Beddoe

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    It certainly has that zaftig Charatan look to it. It is a nice pipe in any event, nice catch.

    "So it goes." - K.V.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. dmcmtk

    dmcmtk

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    It certainly has that zaftig Charatan look to it.

    I like that!

    Dave
    Duke Street Irregular
    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. kenbarnes

    kenbarnes

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    It looks very much like a Charatan second and, although I cannot see the stamping in detail, the size of the stamping looks small which could well make it an earlier example.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. snagstangl

    snagstangl

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    Does this help?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. kenbarnes

    kenbarnes

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    Yes, in my opinion, this large bent is from the late 1950s-early 1960s. Towards the middle 1960s onwards, the stamp font size increased from 1-1.5mm to 2-3mm. Normally this No.42 giant bent would have been 're-worked'/ re-sanded to try and eliminate the flaws to make, for example, a Charatan 'cup and saucer' type shape. Also Reubin Charatan nearly always chose a saddle mouthpiece for a large bent because he said it was easier to warm and bend a saddle mouthpiece than a thick tapered one.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. snagstangl

    snagstangl

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    Thanks again Ken, I will have to see how it smokes. I'm betting pretty well.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. skaukatt

    skaukatt

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    Thanks, Ken for that info, what a great insight into history we have here thanks to you! Much appreciated!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. georged

    georged

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    Thanks, Ken for that info, what a great insight into history we have here thanks to you! Much appreciated!

    Ditto on that.

    A further, related question:

    What percentage of pipes that went out the door (as opposed to becoming firewood) actually received the Charatan stamp? (any grade)

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. kenbarnes

    kenbarnes

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    What percentage of pipes that went out the door (as opposed to becoming firewood) actually received the Charatan stamp? (any grade)

    Relating to the 1950s, this is an interesting question that I will ask Barry Jones the next time we speak - possibly this evening. Barry did tell me the other day that Reubin Charatan did not have a sandblasting machine in the 1950s and Barry or Jonny Mahoney would prepare these pipes/bowls to be sent to a London Glass manufacturer who would use the machine they used for frosting/texturing glass for bathroom windows. Each order would have a note saying 'heavy on the bowls and light on the shanks'. When they came back sandblasted, Barry said that there were always a few that were completely blown away - so these were scrapped

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. fitzy

    fitzy

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    Ken really is a treasure.

    "These are ghosts that are more at home in a girdle-filled drawer than one of my pipes." Quote by Neil Archer Roan on lakeland ghosts
    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. kenbarnes

    kenbarnes

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    What percentage of pipes that went out the door (as opposed to becoming firewood) actually received the Charatan stamp? (any grade)

    I spoke with Barry just now and he told me:
    In the 1950s at the factory in Vine Street, Charatans would machine-turn one gross of one shape per week, say the largest billiard group 4, this would be turned with a small tobacco hole (group 1). These bowls would be inspected and the ones with flaws on the bowl or shank would be re-turned to a size 3. These were inspected and the ones with flaws were once again re-turned to a size 2. The group 4 ones which were clean were then placed in a pre-set chuck and the tobacco holes opened up the extra 2mm and so on. This is called 'solid turning' in order to maximise the yield. If these bowls had some small spots they were sandblasted. The fallings, (some people call them failings)were sold to other pipe companies as C-D bowls (the best being kept for Charatan, namely A-B bowls). So the production of catalogue-shape pipes was 144 per week although some were sold off as C-D bowls. In 1964 The factory took over the old Philip Morris factory in Prescott Street, a few hundred yards away, where they continued this production of 1 gross a week. Then in 1967, the factory moved again to Mansell Street, a few hundred yards from both other factories. When my father joined the company in that year, Barry suggested to my father that they turn half a gross each of 2 shapes so that more shapes would be coming through as the shape chart broadened. After this, production markedly increased as the demand for Charatans grew stronger.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. philobeddoe

    Philo Beddoe

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    Thank you Ken, your knowledge is appreciated very much.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. georged

    georged

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    I spoke with Barry just now and he told me:

    In the 1950s at the factory in Vine Street, Charatans would machine-turn one gross of one shape per week, say the largest billiard group 4, this would be turned with a small tobacco hole (group 1). These bowls would be inspected and the ones with flaws on the bowl or shank would be re-turned to a size 3. These were inspected and the ones with flaws were once again re-turned to a size 2. The group 4 ones which were clean were then placed in a pre-set chuck and the tobacco holes opened up the extra 2mm and so on. This is called 'solid turning' in order to maximise the yield. If these bowls had some small spots they were sandblasted. The fallings, (some people call them failings)were sold to other pipe companies as C-D bowls (the best being kept for Charatan, namely A-B bowls). So the production of catalogue-shape pipes was 144 per week although some were sold off as C-D bowls. In 1964 The factory took over the old Philip Morris factory in Prescott Street, a few hundred yards away, where they continued this production of 1 gross a week. Then in 1967, the factory moved again to Mansell Street, a few hundred yards from both other factories. When my father joined the company in that year, Barry suggested to my father that they turn half a gross each of 2 shapes so that more shapes would be coming through as the shape chart broadened. After this, production markedly increased as the demand for Charatans grew stronger.

    As BS-clogged as the Internet is, sometimes it shines like a nova.

    This is one of those moments.

    Many thanks, Ken, for tracking that info down and taking the time to write it out. BritWood collectors everywhere are smiling.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast

    mothernature

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    This is a section of text from the Ben Wade Pipedia page.

    Lane had the pipe making machines brought from Leeds to London and used the well esteemed name Ben Wade to start the fabrication of entirely machine-made pipes at Charatan's Prescott Street factory. (Some sources say "not earlier than 1973" but proven by cataloges this isn't true.) Alas the "new" Ben Wades were quite usual series pipes, copies of well known standard shapes. The pipes often showed hardly masqued fillings and were processed quite coarsely with hardly polished pre-moulded Ebonite stems. Therewith Ben Wade degenerated definitively to a second brand. The stamping now read "Made in London England" or just "London". Nothing was left from the quality of the pipes once made in Leeds!

    I've always felt these 'Made In London England' stamped pipes were decent smokers. I've owned 4 or 5 of them over the years as travel/work pipes because they smoke good and can be had for around $20 or less.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. ssjones

    ssjones

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    And,I now know that 1 gross equals 144 pieces (a dozen/dozen), that's not a term often used today.

    Al

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. snagstangl

    snagstangl

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    Same question as I started the thread with. No stamping on this one of any kind. I got away with it for under $50 and I thought that was a steal wit this grain.

    And the thing that made it get pitched.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  20. pepesdad1

    pepesdad1

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    Too bad...looks like a sand pit.

    Posted 6 days ago #
  21. weezell

    weezell

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    I bet that made someone say "Aww,Bloddy hell" when they saw that!...

    "the weez"...
    Posted 5 days ago #
  22. snagstangl

    snagstangl

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    I was surprised there was no stamping of any kind. Usually there is a "MADE IN LONDON ENGLAND" on the shank.

    Posted 2 days ago #
  23. snagstangl

    snagstangl

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    So no opinions...

    Posted 20 hours ago #
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    paulfg

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    My opinion (which is not worth much) is quite likely,the shape looks Charatan and the double comfort stem.I too am surprised there is no made in london stamp at least though.
    charatan seconds didnt usually have the DC stem I thought so maybe it was "liberated" after the flaw was discovered before going to be stamped

    Posted 15 hours ago #
  25. ssjones

    ssjones

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    I'm with Paulfg, the shape and stem scream Charatan.

    Posted 13 hours ago #
  26. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Yes, and the chamfered mortise and stepped tenon do also. One of mine is identical internally, and with the comfort saddle as well.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 11 hours ago #

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