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Clergy Pipe Smokers.

(109 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by quincy
  • Latest reply from settersbrace
  1. quincy

    quincy

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    Are there any other members of the clergy on here that smoke? I heard an interview on the podcast with a Catholic Priest who does... How do you handle that with your congregations? Do they know you smoke? Do you smoke while sermonizing? I think it would be great to have a thread where we can discuss things related to clergy life and pipes.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. shaintiques

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    Hey I am Pastor at a Presbyterian church, but we see recreational smoking as ok, as Pipe smoking tends to be. It is adiction that is viewed as sin being as how you must depend upon something other than God to meet your needs. Scripture tells us to not be mastered by anything other than God. So in answer to your question I enjoy the pipe recreationally, and not only that but run a pipe club where most of the members go to my church.

    I know what I need, smoke, I can't recall the last time I tasted it....Gandalf in the mines of Moria.

    "we shall have to share pipes, as good friends must at a pinch'....'I keep a treasure or two near my skin, as precious as rings to me. Here's one: my old wooden pipe. And here's another an unused one...He held up a small pipe with a wide flattened bowl, and handed it to Gimli. 'Does that settle the score between us', said Merry. 'Most noble hobbit, it leaves me deep in your debt."
    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. gray4lines

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    My pastor at a Presbyterian back home smoked a pipe! I always thought it was neat, but that was before I got into it. I'm sure the pipe club is lots of fun!

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Interesting.

    So all pastors addicted to cigarettes are going to hell should they continue with this addiction living a life of sin. So much for living the life by example.

    Should be a great incentive for them to quit the nails eh?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. rmbittner

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    I feel compelled to say this:

    I was born and raised an American Baptist (my dad was a minister), but I was also confirmed -- at 22 -- into the Episcopal church. While I do embrace Baptist beliefs, I consider the Anglican communion my spiritual home. The Episcopal priest who counseled me through my confirmation was a chain smoker of cigarettes. And he remains one of the most spiritual and godly men I've ever known -- second only to my father, who was a nonsmoker.

    Smoking was not something considered sinful in the Episcopal churches I've attended. In fact, it was fairly common during the after-service social hours.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Smoking is not sinful. The addiction is sinful.

    So all those chain smokers who are not addicted don't have a problem.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. cynyr

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    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. gray4lines

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    So all pastors addicted to cigarettes are going to hell should they continue with this addiction living a life of sin. So much for living the life by example.

    Should be a great incentive for them to quit the nails eh?

    Lol! that is quite an incentive!

    Not to derail the thread, but everyone has something that is an obstacle for them... it may be smoking, it may not be. The point that Shaintiques makes is that it's a sin IF it (it being anything) comes between you and God. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Again, what is fine for you may cause someone else problems. We are all different!

    More related to the topic. Wasn't C.S. Lewis quite the pipe smoker? I believe him and Tolkein hung out over a bowl or two (at least for some time).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. quincy

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    Phew I'm A Presbyterian pastor too. So sounds like pipe smoking is ok for us. We do have Presbyterian mix after all. I'm not sure, however, that I agree with the understanding of addiction as sin. It's an illness. Alcoholism is considered a disease... That may be another discussion for another thread however...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. zonomo

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    I'm a former Youth Pastor and Elder. Smoking anything does have a stigma with many church goers. A pastor has to determine what's more important between his desire to smoke and the attitude of his particular flock (not my term, biblical term). When i was in the ministry, I decided that I would not drink alcohol. Not because it was sinful but because I didn't want any of my students, some (or parents) of whom were struggling with alcohol abuse, to think of my drinking as an obstacle to God reaching their heart through me. When I left the ministry, I turned this back on and to this day, I am a very light social drinker. ie: The drink or tobacco doesn't control me, I control it.

    One of my favorite dead guys, Charles Spurgeon (the so called Prince of Preachers in England), was a cigar smoker in the 1850's and many thought that was a sin. That could be the background on today's mindset. But pipe, cigarette smoking cigar or drinking alcohol is no more a sin than drinking coffee is. As shaintiques stated above, any addiction is a sin if it takes the rightful place that God occupies in a believers heart.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. quincy

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    Yeah both Lewis and Tolkien enjoyed the briar quite frequently.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. gray4lines

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    Zonomo, that was well put. And I respect you for putting something that you have no problem with on hold for the sake of others. That takes character and true thoughtfulness.

    I do like to read Spurgeon sermons every now and then, I did not know that he was a cigar smoker! (that makes me like him even more, haha).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. mikephillips

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    Let he who is without sin....

    I don't believe any activity in moderation that isn't sinful by nature should be frowned upon by the church (ANY church). Dancing, smoking, drinking....again, in moderation, or by compulsion/addiction. We have enough people telling us what to do with our lives, we don't need another.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. shaintiques

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    So addiction would be considered sin, but just because we sin doesn't mean that we are going to hell, we all sin all the time, I sin everyday sometimes without even reallizing it. Your desitnation is based on Jesus. In John 14 Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." Jesus is saying that he is the only means of salvation, he is the only one who can get us to heaven. He frees us from sin so that we can enter into the presence of God. Jesus imputes his rightouesness upon us and makes us acceptable to God through his perfect life, death, and resurrection. Our reality is that none of us can do enough good to get to heaven, only Jessus has done that . That doesn't give us a free ticket to sin all the more, but rather frees us from the bondage of guilt that sin briings. We are all addicted to something, cigs, lust, greed, the idol of sellf, self service, self glorification, etc. and thus all deserve death, but Jesus frees us and gives us life all on his own. Freedom even to enjoy a pipe. So many peiople think that Christianity revolves around what I do to get to heaven, but it isn't about that at all, it is all about what Jesus did to get us to heaven. Everything that we do then revolves around thanksgiving and worship of God who gives salvation. Striving to do good then is an act of worship and thanksgiving. So if a pastor is addicted to cigs, the addiction is sin, and he should try to overcome it as an act of worship to God, as sin deglorifies God and righteousness brings him glory. Everything that we do then, striving in righteousness, brings him the glory and honor that he is due. Every sin that we perpetuatlly commit with no effort for change takes away from his worship and glory and though if you are in Christ, won't send you to hell, will leave you in a state of possible discipline from God. I know I have dwelt in such places before. But Discipline doens't mean hell. God disciplines us to bring us back into a state of righteousness for his own glory. He disciplines us to bring us back to himself.

    So I can enjoy a pipe or a beer or a big steak or whatever, but if the pipe becomes something that I can't live without, it takes the place of God meeting all of my needs, then it needs to go. That is what we mean when talking about being mastered by something. The only thing I can't live without is God.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. gray4lines

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    Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law so we do not have to (because we can't!)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. flyguy

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    @shaintigues +1000
    The Bible does not prohibit smoking tobacco or drinking. It does prohibit getting drunk. That being said we all sin and "fall short of the glory of God". "Christians" over the ages have added to the Bible making certain behaviors sin with no biblical evidence. The Pharisees committed similar sins (adding to the law) enslaving the Jews of Christ's time. Christ said "the truth will set you free". He meant this, however, as pertaining to His plan of salvation but it can be also applied to the man-made laws religion can use to enslave.

    “Apples for walking, and a pipe for sitting.”
    ― Samwise Gamgee
    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. cortezattic

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    I used to be a Moron, then I took up the pipe and joined a Presbyterian church.

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. gray4lines

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    I used to be a Moron, then I took up the pipe and joined a Presbyterian church.

    Lol!!

    I am interested that most of the church-going pipe smokers are presbyterian... why? Is it just a coincidence? Or is there a long tradition of Presbyterian pipe smoking that has somehow carried on (presbyterian mixture?)

    I grew up in a Baptist church, so I didn't see pipes until going to the Preb. Church!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. jjmitchem

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    Non denominational Army Chaplain here. Both pipe and cigar smoker.

    - Chappy
    "I'm not ashamed of anything whatever that I do, and I don't feel that smoking makes me ashamed, and therefore I mean to smoke to the glory of God." - Charles Spurgeon
    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. 4dotsasieni

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    I'm a Buddhist priest, working and teaching primarily at a Catholic university. There's nothing in Buddhist teaching which prohibits pipe smoking, or, for that matter, much about any other "vices" -- we have this neat little concept called "karma," which basically says that you're responsible for your own behavior, but that actions and intentions have consequences. Since my pipe smoking doesn't harm anyone else, I don't worry about its karmic consequences.

    Several of the Catholic priests at the university also enjoy an occasional bowlful.

    "Thus shall you view these fleeting worlds: As bubbles in the stream;
    A lightning flash, a puff of smoke, a phantom, and a pipe dream."
    - The Diamond Sutra (slightly edited for pipe smokers)
    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. flyguy

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    Non-denominational lay-person here. Long-time pipe/cigar smoker.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. mikephillips

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    I'm very denominational, but it's a religion of one....I believe what I believe and don't think it's my business to try and impress my thinking onto another person without being asked...and vice-verse.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. zonomo

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    Great thread. Thanks for starting it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. quincy

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    It's because us Presbyterians have class and style! Haha!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. brian64

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    The Pharisees committed similar sins (adding to the law) enslaving the Jews of Christ's time.

    The only times Yeshua became truly angry was at the hypocrisy of the Pharisees...and the only time He became both angry and violent was when He kicked the money changers out of the temple. When He crossed that line is when “they” decided they had to get rid of Him...prior to that they just criticized Him for hanging out with sinners.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. sdcowboy

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    My grandfather was an Episcopal bishop. He was also a life-long pipe smoker. Many of his clergy colleagues were also pipe smokers. Many of them picked it up in seminary. I've always thought that priests and pipes were a natural combination.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. zonomo

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    When He crossed that line is when “they” decided they had to get rid of Him...prior to that they just criticized Him for hanging out with sinners.
    Actually, not to start a holy war here but that wasnt the reason they needed Him to die. It was because He claimed to be God. "I and the Father are one" John 10:30 and in John 14:9-11 He said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father".

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. brian64

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    Actually, not to start a holy war here but that wasnt the reason they needed Him to die. It was because He claimed to be God. "I and the Father are one" John 10:30 and in John 14:9-11 He said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father".

    I don’t disagree, but I don’t think the two reasons are mutually exclusive. IMO, He kicked the money changers out precisely because of His divinity, and “they” did not want God muscling in on their business. Also, it seems clear that after that incident things changed rather quickly.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. yadan

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    "The Pharisees committed similar sins (adding to the law) enslaving the Jews of Christ's time."

    Not quite accurate. It was the occupying Romans, and not the P'rushim (Pharisees) who enslaved, executed, imprisoned or banished rebellious Jews. True, the P'rushim collaborated with the Romans, but they could not set policy nor were they in favor of enslavement.
    As for drunkeness, there is a definite implication of it being frowned upon (such as when Hannah was admonished by Eli, the High Priest, when he thought she was drunk), but the only forbiddance concerns the priests serving in the Temple.

    "I'm always easy to please since I'm always satisfied with the very best." - Oscar Wilde
    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. jbbaldwin

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    Oldie but goodie: Msgr. Ronald Knox, who translated the Bible into English. By himself.

    - Write if you get work.

    - Hang by your thumbs.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. peckinpahhombre

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    My view: it's only a sin to smoke sweet aromatics. Or at least, it should be . . .

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. zonomo

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    My view: it's only a sin to smoke sweet aromatics. Or at least, it should be .
    easy.... easy does it brother.....

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. zonomo

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    I don’t disagree, but I don’t think the two reasons are mutually exclusive. IMO, He kicked the money changers out precisely because of His divinity, and “they” did not want God muscling in on their business. Also, it seems clear that after that incident things changed rather quickly.
    Very true. A lot of people misunderstand what happened here. The Temple only accepted "Hebrew money" because the currency at the time had the image of Roman emperor, who set himself as a god. Therefore, the worshipers could not title or send offerings in the normal business currency so exchange of currency was something necessary by Levitical law. No problem there at all. But... the money changers were ripping off the sojourners and worshipers there by charging them exorbitant fees (like most of today's banks ) inside the temple and "making money off God". So the Messiah had to take out a good ol fashion can of Whoop-A.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. cleidophoros

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    My view: it's only a sin to smoke sweet aromatics. Or at least, it should be . . .

    I present you "Towards a Theology of Pipesmoking"
    http://flyingfarther.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/toward-a-theology-of-pipesmoking/
    Chapter III-2

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. shaintiques

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    Actually the reason that Jesus turned the tables over and kicked them out of the temple is two fold, one they were using the temple as a place of business rather than worship, I don't doubt the exorbitant fees idea, but it had more to do with using the temple for personal gain rather than worship, secondly the space they were occupying was the outer court where the gentiles were allowed to worship. By setting up shop there, the gentiles had no space within the temple to worship.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. yadan

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    "IMO, He kicked the money changers out precisely because of His divinity, and “they” did not want God muscling in on their business."

    Y'hoshua Ben-Yosef, aka, Jesus, did not kick out the money changers; he overturned their tables.

    Getting back to the thread topic, I have discussed the issue of smoking with several rabbis, including Othodox and Reform. There is a biblical commandment forbidding one to do bodily harm to oneself, so I asked them why they refuse to make rulings against cigarette smoking. I have never received a straight answer, but I have seen several rabbis smoking cigarettes!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. zonomo

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    I present you "Towards a Theology of Pipesmoking"
    http://flyingfarther.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/toward-a-theology-of-pipesmoking/
    Chapter III-2
    This is fantastic!!!! I hope everyone here reads this!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. peckinpahhombre

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    I knew I was on to something with my anti-aromatic rant.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. zonomo

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    There is a biblical commandment forbidding one to do bodily harm to oneself, so I asked them why they refuse to make rulings against cigarette smoking. I have never received a straight answer, but I have seen several rabbis smoking cigarettes!
    I think just about everything in our world today can and will harm you. Starbucks, processed carbs, tranfat, the air we breathe, McDonald's, butter, salt, the TV we watch, etc. I guess moderation and an ample helping of Grace should be in order. That's why I've never understood the militant church goers waging their pudgy finger from their rotund mid-section at a person smoking. In fact, gluttony is actually called out in the bible.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. rlunderhill

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    I don't know any Clergy that smoke pipes that I know of. Hard to tell what they do in their private time.

    When I have my pipe in my mouth, it attract's others to approach me. It appears to be a sign of kindness to them.

    Women smile when they walk by and say hello. I always have a pipe with me for private times but it seems to bring people closer.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  41. brian64

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    +1 @ both shaintiques and zonomo re: money changers.

    Y'hoshua Ben-Yosef, aka, Jesus, did not kick out the money changers; he overturned their tables.

    The account in Luke states that Yeshua "drove them out". Whether one believes that is historically accurate or not is a separate question.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  42. winton

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    My church, welcomes everyone. But leadership has a higher standard. These men voluntarily give up things that they might personally accept. They also work long hours for no pay, doing things that most would not do.

    Winton

    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. flyguy

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    "The Pharisees committed similar sins (adding to the law) enslaving the Jews of Christ's time."

    Not quite accurate. It was the occupying Romans, and not the P'rushim (Pharisees) who enslaved, executed, imprisoned or banished rebellious Jews. True, the P'rushim collaborated with the Romans, but they could not set policy nor were they in favor of enslavement.
    As for drunkeness, there is a definite implication of it being frowned upon (such as when Hannah was admonished by Eli, the High Priest, when he thought she was drunk), but the only forbiddance concerns the priests serving in the Temple.


    You are quite correct in that the occupying Romans (Greeks earlier and Babylonians/Medes/Persians yet earlier)enslaved the Jews. I was speaking with regard to the adding of laws and traditions to the Mosaic Law by religious leaders which increased their burden (enslaved them spiritually). This same practice seems to be prevalent in every religion, which is the jest of the original debate; some "Christians" put an extra-biblical stigma on smokers and drinkers.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. judcole

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    There were,at one time,a number of active clergymen on Yahoo Pipesmokers2, where I have been a member for many years.
    I know my minister emeritus enjoyed an occasional cigar and,in the photo gallery of the ministers who served our church,one has a bulldog clamped firmly in his teeth. He left long before my time, however.

    Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
    Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
    Rudyard Kipling
    Posted 1 year ago #
  45. frtimmyd

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    Guess I should wave my hand in the air for this one. I'm an Anglican priest and have been a pipe smoker for about 5 years. My Briar Mentor is also a pipe smoker and I've been very grateful for his advice over the years (his best advice, "Don't be afraid of Latakia. It's kindof like Greek. Real scary to look at but loads of fun once you get used to it.")

    I actually have been known to recommend pipes to other pastors I meet just because it's such a contemplative activity. Great sermons are constructed amidst wafts of great smelling smoke.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. yadan

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    "You are quite correct in that the occupying Romans (Greeks earlier and Babylonians/Medes/Persians yet earlier)enslaved the Jews. I was speaking with regard to the adding of laws and traditions to the Mosaic Law by religious leaders which increased their burden (enslaved them spiritually)."

    I can wholeheartedly agree with that. The P'rushim, and their spiritual descendents - the rabbis - have put forth 'rulings' - and set traditions - which are often gross misinterpretations of the commandments and are even in violation of them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  47. ssjones

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    I grew up in the Church of God (non Pentecostal), my grandfather was the minister. He was of the old "Fire & brimstone" preacher. We weren't allowed to drink, dance, smoke but apparently over-eating was somehow overlooked. Marrying someone who wasn't a born again Christian was seen as a sin, but I married a Catholic girl anyway. My Grandfather was at our wedding, but never really spoke to me again. After our first child, I converted and now I'm a hybrid. I remember the first time I saw a Priest drink or light a cigarette and never got comfortable with that until about 5 years in. Our priest smokes cigars, but I can't sway him to the pipe.

    Al

    Posted 1 year ago #
  48. zonomo

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    But leadership has a higher standard. These men voluntarily give up things that they might personally accept. They also work long hours for no pay, doing things that most would not do.
    Amen to that, its as it should be, not to mention thats its biblical mandate. (James 3:1)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  49. zonomo

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    now I'm a hybrid

    Posted 1 year ago #
  50. kanaia

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    I know many priests that indulge. Mostly Jesuits where I live.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  51. juvat270

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    I remember the first time I saw a Priest drink or light a cigarette and never got comfortable with that until about 5 years in. Our priest smokes cigars, but I can't sway him to the pipe.

    Gene Simmons of the band KISS once said that, one of the things he remembers most from his childhood was when he first moved to America (he was born in Israel) he saw a billboard of Santa Claus smoking a cigarette (advertising Kent brand cigarettes). He thought to himself, "Why is that Rabbi smoking?" (He had no idea at the time who Santa Claus was).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  52. jbbaldwin

    jbbaldwin

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    We weren't allowed to drink, dance, smoke but apparently over-eating was somehow overlooked. Marrying someone who wasn't a born again Christian was seen as a sin, but I married a Catholic girl anyway.

    Al, we should get together and share a bowl and some stories. I was raised Baptist and had the same proscriptions against drinking and dancing as you mention, and we had some hair-raising sermons, always followed by more food than anybody could eat. I also converted and married a Catholic girl (and have turned into a Latin-rite Gregorian-chant-singing fool) - still causes some discomfort at family gatherings, as you probably could guess.

    We lived in tobacco country - lots of folks grew burley, and practically everybody consumed it in some way.

    Thanks for recalling that to my mind.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  53. rondyr

    rondyr

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    I'm not a minister, but I am a pretty strict Baptist, and I echo what some others have rightly said - it is not a sin to smoke, be it cigarettes, cigars, or a pipe. It is not a sin to drink wine or beer. It IS a sin if it controls your life. It IS a sin if it is more important to you than God is. Yes, we are told that the Spirit of God dwells within us, and many believe that means not to pollute our bodies (they say that as they chomp down on a $1.00 McDouble cheeseburger, I might add), but I do not believe that He would have put it on earth if He did not want us to enjoy these things. The key to enjoying anything in life is moderation.

    I'm so awesome, I make myself jealous of myself.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  54. zonomo

    zonomo

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    sooooooo, as long as we're talking about this, what about Pot? I have never tried it and would have never considered it before since it was an illegal drug. In WA state, it's now legal. The law is muddy because you can't buy it or sell it but you can use it in your home in small dosages. Not sure where one is supposed to acquire it. I also know that from a Federal standpoint (for the time being), its considered illegal. What's one to do here? Not exactly black and white so I'd have to apply principals. Thoughts?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  55. rondyr

    rondyr

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    Zonomo, "Potheads" will often use the argument that I used, that God put these things on the earth for our use and enjoyment. That being said, I can't really disagree with my own argument, but I do not care for weed and do not smoke it. I smoked it a few times back when I was a teenager and I just didn't care for it - I hated the way that it made me feel, and it would kill my entire sense of taste for days after smoking it.

    The problem with weed is that smoking it, just like drinking alcohol, and then driving a vehicle or a forklift or an airplane is a disaster waiting to happen. Just like I don't want to be on the road driving near someone who is drunk, I don't want to be on the road with someone who is high. What an adult man or woman does in the privacy of his or her own home, as long as it does no harm to anyone, is their business.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  56. mikephillips

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    sooooooo, as long as we're talking about this, what about Pot? I have never tried it and would have never considered it before since it was an illegal drug. In WA state, it's now legal.

    My opinion on it is, to each his own and religion doesn't enter into my opinion. Every adult on this planet should be free to do as they please, so long as they bring no harm to another, physically or otherwise. Whether it's bad for the temple isn't really open for debate. It's not good for you, and even if the habitual users don't want to admit it, long-term use will affect brain function.

    And you're not missing anything by not trying it. My own experiences with it were terrible, as it basically reduced me to a paranoid moron with the attention span of a goldfish, and left me with a headache and a barely above average I.Q. the entire next day or so. Maybe it doesn't do this to everybody, but if you're pretty smart....why toss that down the shitter, even temporarily? I've known a lot of old hippie potheads in my life, most of them pretty good people, but none were overly ambitious or driven. Whether the personality came before the pot, or the pot and then the personality....who can say?

    Anyway, I doubt any mainstream church would condone it, but I'm sure some would look the other way if it meant keeping the sheep within the flock.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  57. zonomo

    zonomo

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    reduced me to a paranoid moron with the attention span of a goldfish, and left me with a headache and a barely above average I.Q. the entire next day or so
    that's pretty funny. For the record, I am not interested in it per se but I have thought about my moral choices given that its not somewhat legal. I'm more pondering for pondering sake. I personally don't care what people do but know I will answer to God someday for the choices I've made. I go to A LOT of concerts and it seems to be passed around quite often. I expect that to increase.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  58. 4dotsasieni

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    "My own experiences with it were terrible, as it basically ... left me with a headache...."

    Interesting -- I tried it many years ago on two separate occasions, and all I got out of it was a terrible headache that lasted all day. No high, no munchies, only the headache. I suppose this is good, as I'm obviously not a candidate to become an addict. As for moral considerations, to quote the old pagan/wiccan admonition, "an' ye do no harm, do what ye will."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  59. zonomo

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    This is interesting. I've always been told that it's God's gift to mankind. But on the other hand, it was mostly the potheads that told me that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  60. gmwolford

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    I mostly keep my pipesmoking to myself; I am a youth minister and Sunday school teacher so I feel it prudent to not "advertise" my choice to use tobacco (I use moist snuff as well). Being a Baptist all my life, Freewill and now United, I have seen many preachers and teachers openly use tobacco in most all forms with no stigma attached. As I said, working with kids (7-20) I choose to not openly use tobacco around them but I do not deny it if asked or seen.

    My thoughts in pot and alcohol are simple: I don't want anything that clouds my thinking or imparez my judgement which could allow me to fall into sin I would otherwise avoid. And yes, I have not used prescription pain medicine for that reason, opting for alternate treatment and/or toughing it out. Secondly, I don't believe it would be prudent as a youth leader to use or advocate the use of these things.

    Greg
    Posted 1 year ago #
  61. gray4lines

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    Well, from the legal standpoint... we are commanded to obey authorities (except when they lead us into sin). If God is who He says He is, then He certainly has control over who is in power in gov't and sets the laws.

    Is it possible to smoke weed and not have it control you? I'm not saying you're a doped out wacko after one hit, but who smokes weed for the taste? I see it as drinking to get, drunk. You smoke pot to get high.

    Some would argue that mind-altering drugs are akin to "sorcery" mentioned in the bible, which is frowned upon.

    Also, God is a God of order. Worshippers of God never ran around like psychos cutting themselves or indulged in psychadelics in order to "get into the spirit." They did sing amd dance and worship, without regard to what it looked like to others, but it was never "chaos."
    So, does smoking pot more closely resemble worshippers of God or "others" ? Again, Im not saying pot makes you totally tweak out, but it doesnt have a place in worshipping God. That's what Christians live for.

    All my opinions and thoughts, take em or leave em.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  62. bigboi

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    Great thread. I used to be a youth minister and now a deacon in my local non-denominational church. We hold to pipes like most of you have posted already.

    “I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgement in all human affairs.”
    -Albert Einstein, 1950
    Posted 1 year ago #
  63. hunter185

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    I grew up in a small town of about 60 people. The minister of our church was a pipe smoker and he must have had a fairly extensive collection, because it seemed like he had a different pipe after every service. The sweet smell of old pipe smoke was a permanent fixture of the church. This was back in the day when locking your door was considered offensive to the community so of course the church was never locked. I was well underage at the time but used to sneak in there to check out his pipes and linger in that aroma. Definitely an inspiration.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  64. zonomo

    zonomo

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    I see it as drinking to get, drunk. You smoke pot to get high.
    Thanks Gray - this is these best argument I've heard yet.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    vince

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    Hello to everyone. I'm an Anglican Vicar who has just found your site. I've smoked a pipe on and off for around 40 or so years with lots to learn. I've already found some interesting threads, so I shall be back.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  66. guhrillastile

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    What a good read. Certainly a nice slice of the population with regards to the opinions voiced.

    Clergyman: smoke or not. Doesn't change my mind pro or con towards them.

    Drinking- Same. Nice to have a beer with a pastor just to keep them human.

    Smoking pot- Same thoughts. I personally don't smoke out, but giving it some honest thought. I don't think it would change or erode any opinion I have of anyone finding out they do.

    Swearing on the otherhand...this is a stickler. I don't trust any adult that says awe fudge, of sassafrass. No f bombs in the wrong audience, but were talking about stigmas attached to behaviors in the clergy and it was what popped in my head as actually relevant to when I unconsciously form an opinion of a person.

    Just my unsolicited rantings..

    Posted 1 year ago #
  67. rogermugs

    rogermugs

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    Just noticed this myself.... As a missionary... Well.. Happy to see all of you folk.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  68. phred

    phred

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    Interesting that the Buddhist was the first one to mention the Pagans...

    As for moral considerations, to quote the old pagan/wiccan admonition, "an' ye do no harm, do what ye will."

    I grew up in a relatively liberal Christian denomination and eventually left Christianity after experiencing my own "dark night of the soul", for reasons both philosophical and metaphysical. I currently identify myself as a Heathen, as the Scandinavian myths and the underlying theology behind them appeal to me most strongly (my maternal great-grandparents were Swedish immigrants, though they assimilated quite thoroughly once they emigrated), but I spent a fair amount of time reading modern neo-pagan books while I was in my "seeker" phase, and I remember clearly one article specifically on smoking and the Wiccan Rede (as quoted above, or sometimes phrased "an' it harm none, do what you will."). The author of that particular article found himself unable to reconcile the harm done by smoking (both to himself and to his family - indoor cigarette smoker, as I recall) with the Rede, and as a result decided to quit.

    While I don't necessarily follow the Rede myself (since I'm not Wiccan, and since ethically I believe it sometimes necessary to cause harm in order to prevent greater harm, specifically to oneself...), it does provide an interesting framework for deciding whether to engage in certain activities. Smoking can cause harm, both to oneself and to others - but the question is how much harm, and how much responsibility one accepts for that harm. Several people on this forum, for example, have mentioned taking measures to mitigate any possible harm to others (air purifiers, separate rooms, only smoking outdoors, etc.), and others have mentioned switching to pipes to mitigate harm to themselves - which is right in line with the Heathen ethic of taking responsibility for one's own actions.

    Nice to know that whatever else we may believe or believe in, there are some strong ethical similarities among us.



    "De gustibus non est disputandum."
    Posted 1 year ago #
  69. tarak

    tarak

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    I'm a little late to the game here- and I almost didn't post on this since we've had a couple of "hot topics" lately, so y all play nice.

    Anyway, grew up Catholic, but now work for a Baptist Church. I'm technically not a pastor, as I don't have the title- haven't wanted to mess with the weirdness that will ensue with taxes- but I'm responsible for leading worhsip, finding creative ways to communicate the week's message, and pastoring/discipling volunteers on my team, and various people that just need someone to talk to.

    Anyway, I smoke pipe, about 2-3/week, unless I'm busy, which feels like always, then it turns into 1x/week.

    While I don't believe recreational smoking goes against anything in the Bible, it does carry a bit of a stigma, and as I'm at a large church where its not possible to have a conversation with every single person to clarify questions, I'm somewhat quiet about it.

    But, all the staff knows- in fact the missions pastor and I keep meaning to get together for a beer and cigars.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  70. bryanf

    bryanf

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    Boy am I glad to be Jewish. God promised he would never abandon nor forsake his chosen people, and since God never breaks his promises, I'm certain I'm just fine to smoke all I want. Yippee!

    Posted 1 year ago #

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