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Classify and Describe the C&D/Pease VAs?

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sparroa

sparroa

Lifer
Dec 8, 2010
1,466
4
Between the Cornell & Diehl and GL Pease brands, there are quite a lot of Virginias.
With a few exceptions, they don't seem to be as celebrated as the European or even the McClelland Virginias.
Why do you think that is? Is it simply because they are too young and green out of the gates or is it their origins or processing?
I am interested in knowing more about the straight VAs, the classical VA/pers consisting primarily of Virginia and Perique, and the Virginia/oriental blends... (Anything with a noticeable amount of burley or dark fired or latakia is beyond the scope of my question)
Can you do your best to describe these C&D/Pease Virginias that you have tried in relation to each other?
For example, among the straight Virginias there is Opening Night and Union Square to name a couple.
Then there are the classical va/pers such as Fillmore, Telegraph Hill, Laurel Heights, Bayou Morning. etc.
Then there are the VA/oriental blends such as Cairo, Embarcadero, Sunday Picnic. etc.
There seems to be a lot of crossover between these blends and I was wondering if anyone who has tried a large variety of these offerings could do their best to highlight the differences between them. Which blends are sweeter in relation to each other - which blends are spicier - which blends are stronger - and so on...
Keep in mind that I have read a wide variety of tobacco reviews on this subject, but they tend to bleed together after a while.
Anyway, this could be a long and rambling topic if anyone is interested to share their experiences, but I don't mind and any clarification would be a great help.
Thanks!

 
gray4lines

gray4lines

Part of the Furniture Now
Nov 6, 2012
679
2
KY
Hey! I just popped a tin of opening night from Nov 2009! It was quite moist, so i havent touched it for a few days. Sweet, fruity, almost plum like smell. Dark red and brown colors, the flakes are mostly broken up.
I will smoke some today and get back with you! Ive never tried any before

 
rmbittner

rmbittner

Lifer
Dec 12, 2012
2,759
1,995
I'm not a C&D fan -- not that I don't like them, just haven't been drawn to try more than 1 or 2 -- so I can't give you a comparison. But I've tried several of the Pease Virginia-dominant blends and can say a couple of things about them.
I will say this: C&D's reputation is largely built on their ability to put high-quality burley center-stage. While McClelland is highly regarded for Virginias and Pease for English/Balkans, C&D is highly regarded for burley. So when anyone moves outside of the categories on which they built their reputation, I think it can be challenging for them to find a strong foothold in the industry right away.
In other words: Greg's reputation was largely gained by producing a variety of amazing English and Balkan blends. Those came first. And I think he's only been producing Virginia-dominant blends since about 2005. So he has a major reputation for a different style, and these haven't really been around long enough to gain the kind of traction that blends from McClelland, Samuel Gawith, and Rattray's have.
That said, Haddo's Delight is praised to the rafters by just about everyone who enjoys a Virginia-perique blend. (I can't smoke perique, so I can't compare it to many others.)
Of the Pease blends you mention, I've only tried Embarcadero. As a lover of orientals, I was looking forward to this. But I was a little disappointed; for me, the orientals were too far in the background. But that's based on a single tin, smoked when the blend was introduced. I can't speak to how it's aged.
I'm a huge Pease fan -- and not much of a C&D smoker -- so it pains me a little when the two brands are lumped together. Yes, C&D packages the Pease blends, but they are absolutely not rebranded C&D tobaccos. To me, C&D is a bulk manufacturer and Pease is an artisan. That's just my opinion. But I think there's a distinct difference between the two brands -- and I think the difference is the man behind the recipes, the tobacco selection, and the purchasing.
Again: Just one person's opinion, here.
Bob

 
sparroa

sparroa

Lifer
Dec 8, 2010
1,466
4
Bob,
I didn't mean to pain you in anyway and I see your POV but I think there is probably considerable overlap from a raw materials standpoint. Pease probably has "finer" ingredients but at approximately the same prices I dare say there is a lot of crossover in the quality of leaf used. I don't have much experience with these so I don't have a big authoritative opinion on the matter. I did lump them in together, however, because I figured there must be an overarching "house style" that peeks through the Pease blends and since they are both uncharted waters for me I do not want to buy similar blends from both brands only to find that their resemblances are striking...
I was aware of the existing reputations of both brands and that is exactly why I am seeking further clarification. I do not want any C&D burley or Pease latakia blends despite the fact that they are well reviewed; I have a fairly limited appreciation for burley (with a preference for the European flakes out there) and though I have enjoyed Pease English blends I have lost my desire for latakia. So as I'm sure you can understand I'm just trying to branch out. Their respective VA blends still seem to get a fairly good reception and they have been on the market long enough to have some degree of popularity.
Haddo's sounds very promising but since it seems to be its own animal (with a hearty dose of burley and cavendish and rum) I don't think of it in relation to the others in the same way...
It is too bad that you were disappointed with Embarcadero. I'm not sure what to think of that one. The description appeals to me but I am afraid that it won't strike a chord with me, either... For your information, I have heard that the oriental only melds and mellows with time so it is up in the air if you'd enjoy an older tin.
Again Bob, thanks for your feedback. I understand where you are coming from and I admit you raise some good points but I hope you can see the reasons why I would consider lumping them together for the sake of these questions. (I do not want needless duplication of between the brands if the blends are too close in character OR if one is superior to the other. If they are both genuinely unique and worthy then that is a different matter)
Gray, please do let me know how your Opening Night goes. I am always in the market for straight VA. The reviews on TR are overwhelmingly positive for Opening Night BUT it doesn't get much praise in the scheme of things. I'd appreciate it if you could ocmpare it to some other tobaccos in your point of reference when you finally get around to trying it...

 
Perique

Perique

Lifer
Sep 20, 2011
4,098
3,884
www.tobaccoreviews.com
While I have not sampled all of the blends you mentioned, Cairo and Fillmore are among my regular smokes. Telegraph Hill was good, but not as good as Fillmore IMO. I enjoy the broken flakes and find Fillmore has a creamier, fuller flavor with more Perique. Like Haddo's, Cairo is a tough one to classify. VaPer/Oriental with very light casing. Like Haddo's, an excellent tin note of the fig/raisin/date variety. In fact I'm smoking it now. Plenty of on-line reviews by those more articulate in their descriptions than I, but I think Cairo is a world class tobacco in the same league as Haddo's I find the flavors of Cairo change dramatically throughout the smoke, ranging from sweet VA, to spicy VaPer, to ashy oriental. Not sure how this is accomplished. I prefer this tobacco in a large billiard to experience all the phases of the smoke.
To answer your question above, in sweetness and strength I would rank them 1) Haddo's, 2) Cairo, 3) Fillmore, 4) Telegraph Hill. Since the first two are hybrids, it's tough to compare. For pure VaPers, both 3 & 4 are excellent with my nod going to 3 based on perique-forwardness, texture, and richness of the smoke. Another GLP hybrid you may want to try is Barbary Coast. Yes, it's burley based but there's a lot going on there, including Perique. Worth a try alongside GLPs other most popular hybrids Haddo's and Cairo. In sweetness I would rank it one among those listed above, in strength 5. It is also the least Perique-forward of the five, but the spice is still detectable.

 
rmbittner

rmbittner

Lifer
Dec 12, 2012
2,759
1,995
simenon:
No worries! And I know from reading the posts that there are a lot of C&D fans here.
One more point before I stop hogging the thread: It wouldn't surprise me if one of the reasons you don't see the Pease and C&D Virginias "celebrated" so much is simply blend fatigue. I occasionally scroll through the many blends available from these (and most other) blenders, and I'm sometimes baffled why new blends continue to be added to lists that are already well-filled by their current offerings. So much is out there already that I'm sure many good new blends get overlooked.
I do sometimes find myself wondering why, in a world where there are already so many great examples of a particular style, some blenders still feel the need to make sure they have a similar take on it in their own line-ups. I don't see anything wrong with specializing. I don't think every blender has to offer something for every smoker. (Even the great Dunhill, in its prime, probably didn't offer more than 12-15 tinned blends at any given time.)
Sometimes, I just want them all to pause for a moment so we have a chance to catch up! ;)
Bob

 
gray4lines

gray4lines

Part of the Furniture Now
Nov 6, 2012
679
2
KY
This is my first bowl of opening night, so what I say may be sort of preliminary.
Overall this was a very mild smoke, even for a Va. Lately I have been smokig only Va's, such as Orlik Golden slices and Erik Stokkebye's 1855, and I found the flavor and sweetness present in Opening Night underwhelimng.
Perhaps age mellowed this blend out, as I found a tin on sale last month marked November 2009.
The dark, sweet, fruity tin notes were not as predominant in the flavor as I thought they may be. I acually thought of GL Pease Navigator, except minus the Kentucky dark fired leaf. There is that same dark, earthy sweetness, but none of the smokey flavor or spice from the KY fired leaf.
I will smoke another bowl soon, as maybe my pallet just wasnt up to it this morning. Opening Night is not bad at all, but I expected more flavor from it.
Edit: forgot to menion. I rubbed it out into fluffy ribbons. Burnt down all the way, easily. I will try folding the flakes next time (even though most of the flakes are broken up).

 
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