I just got back home and catching up from being offline.
This morning I was in the process of responding to a thread titled Why British? which raised a legitimate point about terminology usage and it sparked an interesting conversation. However, the thread was closed - perhaps due to uncivil discourse? I don't know, but having prepared a response, and it being a good topic, has lead me to renew it so maybe we can continue to examine what it all means.
There were many great responses to the question, but I can't reproduce them all here, so I'll just quote the original premise and how it was framed by C&D -
:
:
Anyway,
this was my response:
Oi!
A luverly anorak argle-bargle here!
Right nice proper champion,
this thread!
Seriously, good topic.
A discussion about the correct orthonym to be used is the jammiest of jams for me, I enjoy very much talking about the differing functions of syntactic constructions, so this is right up my alley.
Although I myself disprefer the premodifier English, I do concede that it is actually the most precisely accurate ontology simply because the nomenclature of Made In England should be correctly denoted as English-made.
I personally think that British would cause less confusion because it is generally understood what the meaning is, unlike English which has a wider variety of meanings and has been somewhat diluted.
For example, if I say "This is an English pipe.", it could be interpreted as both "a pipe made in England" and "a pipe dedicated to Latakia mixtures", and both interpretations could be correct.
The main rub, however, would be popular usage - and that linguistic variation is inevitable and natural.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_description
The perfect example of the prescriptionist/descriptionist dichotomy relevant to our conversation would be the aforementioned BBB - Blumfeld Blumfeld Blumfeld was the original intention of the creator, but it ended up being superseded by popular usage into something else entirely. As early as 1935, Wally Frank was describing BBB as Best British Brand, and many other people had come to refer to BBB variously as either Best British Briar or Britain's Best Briar --- so much so that the company itself took to using the phrase:
Note that the box uses both terms, English and British, and it seems, in my mind, that the two terms are interchangeable and convey the same general meaning.
This interchangeability is on most prominent display in an article written by Maxim Engel,
the term in the title English Pipes & History, quickly transforms within the main body of text as British Pipes. Part 1: !!!
http://www.pipes2smoke.com/British_pipes_article.htm
:
And, other "thought leaders" seem to use the term without reservation,
Neill Archer Roan says:
Jeff Gracik says:
Samuel Goldberger says:
Russ Ouellette says:
Michael Linder says:
Smokers Haven says:
Pipedia says:
Black Swan Shoppe, who they themselves are in the UK, say:
These are but a few examples, I'm sure many more could be found, and it does seem that the term has been widely accepted and in popular use.
A large majority of Britbriar nomenclature is stamped Made In England or London Made, or a variation thereof, but there do exist a few exceptions, like Hardcastle for instance:
And this on an old Sasieni box:
I've yet to see a pipe stamped Made In Gt. Britain, yet that term is fairly common on older tobacco tins:
I could argue that "quotation marks" are more accurately "inverted commas", but most Americans would think it a bit strange. Once a term has been widely accepted by a particular culture or group and in popular use, the tide is very difficult to turn back.
Standard terminology can be in constant flux, often falling under the guide of personal preference, and this is an understatement in the pipe world where many things remain far from dead certain.
:?:
This morning I was in the process of responding to a thread titled Why British? which raised a legitimate point about terminology usage and it sparked an interesting conversation. However, the thread was closed - perhaps due to uncivil discourse? I don't know, but having prepared a response, and it being a good topic, has lead me to renew it so maybe we can continue to examine what it all means.
There were many great responses to the question, but I can't reproduce them all here, so I'll just quote the original premise and how it was framed by C&D -
and this:
It would be wonderful if we could discuss this without severe derailment, and I hope that we could all convey our philosophical differences with thoughtful respect regardless of position.
:
:Anyway,
this was my response:
Oi!
A luverly anorak argle-bargle here!
Right nice proper champion,
this thread!
Seriously, good topic.
A discussion about the correct orthonym to be used is the jammiest of jams for me, I enjoy very much talking about the differing functions of syntactic constructions, so this is right up my alley.
Although I myself disprefer the premodifier English, I do concede that it is actually the most precisely accurate ontology simply because the nomenclature of Made In England should be correctly denoted as English-made.
I personally think that British would cause less confusion because it is generally understood what the meaning is, unlike English which has a wider variety of meanings and has been somewhat diluted.
For example, if I say "This is an English pipe.", it could be interpreted as both "a pipe made in England" and "a pipe dedicated to Latakia mixtures", and both interpretations could be correct.
The main rub, however, would be popular usage - and that linguistic variation is inevitable and natural.
Samuel Johnson knew that prescriptivism (which seeks to define standard language forms and give advice on effective language use) would most likely fall out of favor against descriptivism (which defines language as it is actually used by people)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_description
The perfect example of the prescriptionist/descriptionist dichotomy relevant to our conversation would be the aforementioned BBB - Blumfeld Blumfeld Blumfeld was the original intention of the creator, but it ended up being superseded by popular usage into something else entirely. As early as 1935, Wally Frank was describing BBB as Best British Brand, and many other people had come to refer to BBB variously as either Best British Briar or Britain's Best Briar --- so much so that the company itself took to using the phrase:
Note that the box uses both terms, English and British, and it seems, in my mind, that the two terms are interchangeable and convey the same general meaning.
This interchangeability is on most prominent display in an article written by Maxim Engel,
the term in the title English Pipes & History, quickly transforms within the main body of text as British Pipes. Part 1: !!!
http://www.pipes2smoke.com/British_pipes_article.htm
:
And, other "thought leaders" seem to use the term without reservation,
Neill Archer Roan says:
:
Jeff Gracik says:
:
Samuel Goldberger says:
:
Russ Ouellette says:
:
Michael Linder says:
:
Smokers Haven says:
:
Pipedia says:
:
Black Swan Shoppe, who they themselves are in the UK, say:
:
These are but a few examples, I'm sure many more could be found, and it does seem that the term has been widely accepted and in popular use.
A large majority of Britbriar nomenclature is stamped Made In England or London Made, or a variation thereof, but there do exist a few exceptions, like Hardcastle for instance:
And this on an old Sasieni box:
I've yet to see a pipe stamped Made In Gt. Britain, yet that term is fairly common on older tobacco tins:
I could argue that "quotation marks" are more accurately "inverted commas", but most Americans would think it a bit strange. Once a term has been widely accepted by a particular culture or group and in popular use, the tide is very difficult to turn back.
Standard terminology can be in constant flux, often falling under the guide of personal preference, and this is an understatement in the pipe world where many things remain far from dead certain.
:?:
