Bowl Coating

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saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,101
Bowl coating remains one of the pipe world's most persistent controversies. Being only a pipe smoker, I necessarily suffer from the ignorance of the carver’s point of view; thus, I hope that carvers contribute their perspective to the thread, and I hope that the discussion will not become just another battleground. A spirit of truth first rather than the zest of debate might move the discussion forward.
I have read many times that pipes that are bowl coated suffer less burnout. However, in my experience, consisting of owning and smoking 100 pipes of many different brands through 15 years, I have not had one. 15 years X 365 days X 3 bowls a day equals 16.5K smokes without burnout.
Echoing this last point, in this magazine’s “Out of the Ashes” on February 12, 2013, GL Pease said:
“Most burnouts are the result of a flaw in the briar, usually a soft spot, or a void just below the surface of the wood. When such a pipe burns out, there’s no way to know if a bowl coating of any kind would have prevented it, and if it does not, there’s no way to know if it was the bowl coating that was responsible for its durability, so all we really have is anecdotal evidence. (As I mentioned, the only two pipes I’ve ever owned that burned out had heavily coated chambers.)
I corresponded with several pipe makers and sellers regarding defect rates. Specifically, I was interested in how many uncoated bowls were returned for burnout, in order to get a baseline. The responses were anywhere from a low of “zero in 17 years,” (about 3000 pipes) to a high of 15 pipes out of about 11,000 (0.13%). Collectively, the burnout rate was less than 1 out of every 1000 pipes made/sold. Interestingly, one seller replaced 3 out of about 3200 pipes sold last year, two of which were coated bowls. One maker reported 3 returns out of approximately 2500 pipes, two of which he said were his fault for making the bottoms of the bowls too thin. Another maker of about 300-400 pipes per year has not had to replace a single burnout in the last five years.”
Yet Todd Johnson ins his Youtube video Sodium Silicate versus “Raw Briar” as commented on by David Huber on the forum “Brothers of Briar,” demonstrates that a coated piece of briar, compared to an uncoated piece, holds up about twice as long before burning, suspended over a tea light flame. But Huber says that the temperature of the tea light flame is 1300 degrees while the tobacco burning in the chamber is 550 degrees, which is almost a 3:1 variance. Hardly conclusive.
Nor do we know if 550 degrees is the temperature an over-puffed pipe or one smoldering. Also, it would appear that the coating certainly impedes heat transfer to the walls. I would wonder where this heat goes? Up, yes, but probably also reflected back into the tobacco, making a hotter smoke for the smoker.
But the carver may assert in reply that burnout is a fact and that bowl coating remains a prudent measure. But as there is no proof linking the absence of coating with burnout, and as so many smokers find coating abhorrent, I question this prudence. What carvers may regard as best practice to prevent this infrequent-to-rarely occurring small disaster is nonetheless roundly rejected by many of their customers. This “just in case,” thinking, supported by prudence, is nonetheless a measure to which many of your customers object.
If a carver feels that he simply cannot release a pipe for sale without addressing the issue, why not issue a disclaimer saying that if an uncoated pipe burns out during breakin, he will not be held responsible. Or, from the standpoint of flexibility, release the pipe uncoated with the buyer’s option to return it to the carver for coating should he so choose.
These are options to handle this issue to the satisfaction of both parties and therefore are much superior to the carver simply controlling the issue, thereby alienating a swath of buyers. Carvers assume they know the customers’ needs better than the customers themselves, expressing what is only their assumption by ignoring the most important person in the transaction, the smoker who agrees to pay for the pipe.
Control simply doesn’t work, a maxim that any married couple will support.

Though marriage is of much deeper importance, its key elements, a contract and the two people who attempt to adhere to it, is also present in the carver/pipe smoker relationship. Control doesn’t work in a marriage or in our little corner of the tobacco world; in fact control doesn’t work in any relationship at all.
Castello and other Italian makers don’t bowl coat, and Castello has certainly prospered making pipes. In all likelihood if a significant number of their pipes burned out during breakin, they would coat; more, any student of the forums would have come across no small amount of posts from those whose Castellos had failed. Given the popularity of Castello pipes, and given that the forums are often used as the great griping ground of the serious pipe smoker, this is telling. No one keeps statistics about coating, and thus no one can make a statement about it that is not simply opinion.
I've also read that carvers coat because they claim it looks better. Both Larry Roush and Kurt Huhn prefer to coat as a way to cover the exterior stain’s penetration to the chamber walls. Though to me this is not sufficient reason to coat, in this case I must give them a nod.
But it would appear that since many makers prefer the way coating looks in the chamber, even in the absence of cosmetic issues, they make the mistake that the buyer does, too. But I would wonder why the chamber, which I don't look at, commands special treatment, and would argue instead that it is the shaping and the exterior of the pipe, especially the bowl and the stem, that command the hypothetical buyer’s attention. The position that says that presence of the coating significantly influences the sale is unsupportable. I’ve never read any account about a pipe selection saying “I was on the fence between two pipes, but in the end it was the bowl coating that helped me decide.” Or “I loved both pipes and simply couldn’t make a decision, but one was coated and the other was not, I think that subliminally the way the pipe shone that was coated swayed me to buy the pipe that was coated.” But I have read repeatedly about buyers turned off by pipes with coating.
It is not the carver’s eyes that cruise the pipe sites. Hundreds of pipe smokers seek out and return to pipe sites again and again to hone their aesthetic and their restraint; your beauties are expensive. We have looked at and studied thousands of pipes and are every bit as crazy in love with them as you. How can you doubt that pipe smokers don’t have the expertise to make an informed decision about bowl coating?
There are more points to discuss, but burnout and aesthetic appeal would appear to be the main issues. More about them follows.
Coatings make a difference, if at all, during the first half-dozen bowls, after which the protective cake is in place. Can you really maintain that without the coating the new pipe is in danger of burnout during those first bowls, while the cake is built? My understanding is that a flaw in the briar sufficient to cause burnout usually happens over time; that is, a flaw that will burn through the bowl is deepened by repeated exposure to the heat of smoking. What we come to is that a flaw causes burnout, and again although utterly unprovable, I would argue that the flaw, not the presence of the coating, will cause burnout whether or not heat transfer to bowl the bowl is mitigated by the coating. I suppose it could be argued that coating never stops working, and that combined with the cake it continues to protect the pipe after breakin. But just as there is no factual support for burnout during the initial bowls, there is even less about the number of pipes that, with or without coating under the cake, burn out.
Carvers pour all their effort, expertise and love into the pipes they create. This is amply evident. No one doubts their dedication, aspiration or achievement. But their contribution ends when they release the pipe for sale. They poured everything they had into the pipe but now it leaves for a new owner, but if they coat the bowl they are imposing their standard on a large number of buyers who object to it.
Of course the buyers have the option of sanding the coating out. Carvers may or may not have experience removing coating; but I do, unfortunately. I’ve worked with three or four coated pipes and have yet to finish the process without fingers cut and mashed in the process; as well as a good bit of irritation that I should have to subject myself to a very tedious, and surely unnecessary, process. How do you manipulate a piece of sandpaper in such a confined place; more, how do you keep from sanding and damaging the inner rim?
In the end it is me, the buyer, who should decide about coating. I am paying for the pipe! Let me say that again. I am paying for the pipe. Hopefully I’m going to smoke it for years. Mr. Carver, you made it with all your love, but then you sold it to me, and it is no longer yours.
To conclude, it is unproven that coating prevents burnout. That some carvers believe it to be true nonetheless causes them to control the issue despite that many buyers object. But without the buyer the carver is unemployed. Other carvers feel that a coated pipe looks better, but as many buyers don’t agree, this is probably only the carver’s perception. It is impossible to conclude with any other point other than that paying for the pipe gives the buyer the right to decide the issue.
In the end it is only the beauty of your product that makes the sale given that you deliberately fashion it with a feature whose utility cannot be substantiated, and to which your customers do not, and will not, subscribe.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,543
14,290
It's 100% economics. Bowl coatings can't be proven to prevent burnouts, but they MIGHT. And since replacing a burnout is an expensive proposition for an artisan pipemaker, they prefer to err on the side of caution. End of story.
As for removing it, if you are cutting and mashing your fingers and/or damaging the rim you're doing it wrong.

 

settersbrace

Lifer
Mar 20, 2014
1,565
5
Not a carver but I look at it this way. If the carver shapes a pipe out of an otherwise near perfect block of briar but has an unsightly sand pit inside the bowl of what could potentially be a high dollar piece, he's coating it. It has little to do with the possibility of a burnout, at least in my mind. The coating may in fact protect that very slightly flawed bowl but I'm betting it wouldn't burn out with normal use if it was left naked. I can understand perfectly the reason that artisan would want that blemish to not be visible and for him or her, it's about making a buck as much as it's about making the pipe. Why would they want to dispose of or heavily discount a straight grained beauty? Cover it with an inert bowl coating and everyone, (almost everyone) is happy. The problem is that once a maker coats one if their bowls, they'd have to coat all I'd imagine or people would start to suspect they were up to something.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,733
16,332
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Sales of coated pipes belie your last sentence. Customers, by and large, really do not care about bowl coatings. Some of the members here curse the "taste" of coatings, others notice no difference. I venture to say that there is no wide industry nor customer abhorrence of bowl coatings. If coated pipes did not sell well, coatings would all disappear.
The buyer does indeed decide the issue and it looks as though the issue is pretty well decided. Coated bowls sell well.

 

thefalcon

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 23, 2012
241
2
The only burnout I have ever experienced in nearly 30 years of pipe smoking was in a slow smoking contest in Michigan, the only problem with that is I couldn't keep the wood burning quite long enough!
Eric :wink:

 

settersbrace

Lifer
Mar 20, 2014
1,565
5
Warren, I don't disagree that coated bowls sell well. I was taking the position as seen through the artisan carvers eyes is all. I personally don't give much of hoot one way or the other so long as it's not water glass which I've not seen on a new pipe in some time. I don't even know if it's still a practice to use it. I've talked with a couple carvers who opt to coat there bowls for the very reason I stated, to mask a sand pit that might cost a sale.

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,638
Chicago, IL
What carvers may regard as best practice to prevent this infrequent-to-rarely occurring small disaster is nonetheless roundly rejected by many of their customers.
I have read repeatedly about buyers turned off by pipes with coating.
I don't think there's much empirical support for those statements. Sales seem to indicate otherwise.
I think bowl coatings are more often used to cover tool marks than natural flaws.

Beo2.jpg


 

spartanfan

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 3, 2013
105
9
To each their own choice. I won't buy a pipe with a bowl coating. It certainly does eliminate many carvers that don't offer a bare bowl - I'm fine with that as it is my preference and my money.

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,101
Hi Warren,
I find a number of misinterpretations in your post, copied below. I do apologize for the post's length, but I have a strong suspicion that you scanned rather than read it, coming to your considered opinion that it was anti bowl coating, responding to what you think I said rather than what I did say. Your post would seem to be your opinion more than a response.
"Sales of coated pipes belie your last sentence. Customers, by and large, really do not care about bowl coatings. Some of the members here curse the "taste" of coatings, others notice no difference. I venture to say that there is no wide industry nor customer abhorrence of bowl coatings. If coated pipes did not sell well, coatings would all disappear.
The buyer does indeed decide the issue and it looks as though the issue is pretty well decided. Coated bowls sell well."
Let's take these in order.
"Customers, by and large, really do not care about bowl coatings. "
I read that there are a significant number of people who do care, and in fact are vehemently opposed to them: me, Greg Pease, although not totally opposed leans in that direction, Marty Pulvers, spartanfan, in his response above, etc., etc. You may choose to minimize the issue, but that won't make it go away. I've been reading opposition to coating on the boards since I took up the pipe. I would love to see any data that supports your contention that "the issue is pretty well decided." That's an extravagant claim that I very much doubt you can support.
"I venture to say that there is no wide industry nor customer abhorrence of bowl coatings."
I never said anything so sweeping as an industry wide anything. I in fact was cautious about how I stated everything in the post because no one has the data to support either agreement or opposition. What I go by is what I read on the forums, and I've been reading on the forums for 15 years that there are strong feelings on both sides of the fence.
The reason why bowl coated pipe sell is because those who dislike them don't have much choice to buy uncoated pipes. It would seem to me that 90% of pipes for sale are coated. For instance I shop based on many qualities. If those many qualities lead me to a coated pipe, though I cringe, I buy it anyway.
Again, though I can hardly believe that anyone should mistake my position, particularly if they read my post, I don't know what if anything the coating does for a pipe or takes away from it. Though I thoroughly dislike coatings, particularly because the choice to coat has been made for me, since I really don't know if in the end it benefits or harms the pipe, why shouldn't I buy a pipe that meets the rest of my selection criteria?

 
Jan 4, 2015
1,858
11
Massachusetts
There is probably "0" chance this issue will ever be resolved. Most of what I have read suggests that carvers/makers seem to favor them believing they help in the formation of bowl cake. I'm with Settersbrace, as long as it's not water glass I don't find it a big deal. My understanding is that the vast majority of what's being used recently is organic in nature or at least that's what the reading suggests. I'm not opposed to a bare bowl but a coated one isn't a deal breaker either. But I will say I think using them to hide a bowl flaw is a questionable practice. If that's the true motivation then shame on that maker.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,733
16,332
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
I read the OP more than once. I stand by my reasoning.
If coatings are a deterrent to sales, manufacturers would not add to their costs (reduce profit) by coating bowls. Obviously the data exists which indicates bowl coating is acceptable to the vast majority of purchasers. Coated pipes sell in numbers which obviously enrich the makers of such pipes to a degree that they find the process acceptable to their bottom line. The added expense is returned in sales. This appears to prove that coating pipes, for whatever reason, and vending them is preferable to selling non-coated pipes.
The economics have settled the question. If indeed "90%" (I did not see a citation for that figure) of pipes sold are coated, it makes sense for manufacturers to coat pipes. tThe demand is there and a wise person tries to supply demand when striving for profit. Boutique carvers can cater to a small audience and create made to order. Companies and individuals aiming for a larger share of the market must provide what the market wants. It's all economics and scale. The "large number?" of pipers not wanting coated bowls is apparently not large enough to change the reality of coated bowls. I suspect the "large number" is in reality an insignificant number.
I did not attribute the citing of "industry and customer abhorrence" to anything you wrote. That is my observation based on the number of successful pipe makers selling coated pipes and the nebulous "large number" of pipers who object to it as you wrote.
Lastly you wrote in the OP that coating the bowl is a feature to which customers "do not and will not subscribe." And then in your post of an hour ago you state that you will indeed purchase a pipe with a coated bowl.
I am indeed confused, though not for want of parsing your posts.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
I prefer pipes with no bowl coating. It's a classy touch, like a little wood on the dash of an automobile, but not a determinant on buying a pipe. Most of my pipes have been coated, but I mostly remember which ones weren't, and it gives me a lift when I smoke them. After six or seven bowls, it's irrelevant, so I find belaboring the subject not instructive. My go-to carver never coats the inside of his bowls, briar nor Mountain Laurel. My most recent pipe, a Genod from St. Claude, France, is not coated.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,446
11,355
Maryland
postimg.cc
We flogged this horse quite well last month...
On new pipes, I'm a fan, of the RIGHT bowl coating.
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/another-revival-of-the-great-and-contentious-bowl-coating-debate

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,733
16,332
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Let me state at the start: I could care less about bowl coatings having never had a bad experience with a coated bowl! I've not tired of the discussions though, and find them highly entertaining when all participants take the high ground.
All I ever got from Mr. Pease's writing is that he has an opinion about coatings as does, it seems, every maker and smoker. He is not a fan of waterglass as a coating. Is suspect of other inorganic coatings. Organic coatings may or may not be effective in protecting the pipe, may be of some aesthetic value, may or may not protect a pipe from the overly enthusiastic smoker, and that he is more accepting of coatings than he once was. Certainly not, nor meant to be a definitive op ed regarding bowl coatings.
edit: I enjoy a discussion where I can take either side of the debate. Very mentally stimulating they are. I enjoy having to examine all sides and then deciding which will provide the most interest to present.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,543
14,290
Someone should tell these guys that there's a second example for them to study:
https://www.orie.cornell.edu/news/index.cfm?news_id=62222&news_back=category%3D62137

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,733
16,332
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Epiphany! I just had an epiphany! Moments ago while on the lower level cooking my dinner I had a thought that I need to share.
Bowl coatings, for those of you unalterably opposed to them are a boon for you. This distaste for the coating reduces the amount of time and the number of pipes to inspect when searching for prospective purchases. Your choices are limited so you save time and can zero in on only those "untainted" briars in the store or on-line. Time is precious and I envy those extra minutes you save.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,446
11,355
Maryland
postimg.cc
Your choices are limited so you save time and can zero in on only those "untainted" briars in the store or on-line. Time is precious and I envy those extra minutes you save.
Between avoiding coated bowls and ShinyPipes auctions, that is a lot of free time!

 
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