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ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,446
11,353
Maryland
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Some very interesting pipe auctions ended today, primarily a brace of unsmoked Barlings.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381067343734?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
$_57.JPG

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371199457067?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
$_57.JPG

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371199453871?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
$_57.JPG

And even an umsmoked Sasieni, the bargain of the bunch!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400816639629?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
$_57.JPG


 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,775
45,379
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Hi Al,
I was watching these to see if crazy would repeat. Prices were high, but not stratospheric. But there is something a bit odd about a couple of these. Can anyone point out what is odd about the third Barling pictured?

 

huntertrw

Lifer
Jul 23, 2014
5,284
5,548
The Lower Forty of Hill Country
sablebrush52:
I just clicked on the link to the eBay listing, and, in fact, this pipe is described as "unsmoked" so that must not be the answer you were seeking. Let me change it by saying that the box shown is for a Standard model, while the and the pipe itself is described as Ye Olde Wood, thus the box appears to be incorrect.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,446
11,353
Maryland
postimg.cc
Good catch huntertrw, I had two and added a third...
@sablebrush52: I don't know enough about Barlings to pick out the issue, other than the stem logo has been buffed off. If I was paying that much for a pipe, I would want to see better close ups of the nomenclature. My cell phone takes terrific close-ups, so there is no excuse not to add them.
The nomenclature on the unsmoked Sasieni is also surprisingly weak.
Here's a close up of nomenclature, taken with my Samsung Galaxy. I don't have a macro lens, so this is the only way I can take close-ups.


 

huntertrw

Lifer
Jul 23, 2014
5,284
5,548
The Lower Forty of Hill Country
If you look at the images in the original listings the logo on the stem of the third Barling appears to be much stronger than that of the first; however, the white fill on both is very weak. As xrundog pointed out, this is strange if both are truly supposed to be in unsmoked condition.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,775
45,379
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Pretty observant! The box on Pipe #3 is not correct. It's from a later period. The two upper boxes are family era, but should have Ye Olde Wood on pipe #1, so that box is not original to the pipe. Chances are none of these are original to the pipes. But what caught my attention were the stems. All of them have weak Barling crosses and show signs of buffing.
The lines of the saddle bit have softened, noticeable at the corners. The Barling cross is all but completely obliterated. It's slightly rounded at the join to the shank. Also the rim of the bulldog has clear signs of some kind of residue(?), or residual damage - clear scratch besides the odd shapes on the rim, etc, and the edges are soft, so it's been buffed, and not a little.
The stem on the Fossil has also been highly buffed, such that the Barling cross is all but completely obliterated and there is an odd build up where the stem meets the button.
Were I interested in buying any of these (and I'm not because I don't collect unsmoked pipes, with a couple of notable exceptions) I would want to see clear shots of the chamber walls all the way to the bottom and I would want to see close up shots of the stems, top and bottom, and the bits.
There is no clear view of the chamber walls, so I can't see if the clamp marks are visible in pipe #1 as they are in pipe #3. Same for the Fossil. When assessing whether a Barling is unsmoked, look for the clamp marks. If they're not visible, it's not unsmoked. Every unsmoked Barling that I have seen, and I've seen a lot of them going back to 1907, has those clamp marks on the sides of the chamber. Pipe #3 is definitely unsmoked, but the stem has had work done on it.
All of these were cleaned up. My guess is that the stems were oxidized, or otherwise blemished, and the former owner decided to do a clean up before selling or consigning them, or the seller had them cleaned up.
Of the three, the billiard, a classic 52, is in the best condition.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,446
11,353
Maryland
postimg.cc
I have bought four unsmoked pipes this year, but all had oxidized stems that need to be cleaned. With stamped stem logos like Barlings, the clean up is a compromise leaving either oxidation or obscuring the stamping. Sasieni, Comoys (3 pc C) and Dunhill stems are a lot more forgiving to restore!
On the briar, even though a pipe may have been unsmoked doesn't mean it didn't pick up handling marks over the years. Most often these are dents and dings that can be pulled out, but then the briar needs some buffing to restore and even the finish. Another compromise. Buffing wheels are like big erasers....

 

graydawn

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 7, 2014
164
1
Great comments Jesse! More misleading info on Ebay. I would prefer to do my own clean up on an unsmoked estate pipe for just this reason.
Richard

 

wyfbane

Lifer
Apr 26, 2013
5,117
3,518
Tennessee
It is a shame that people can be so shady.
We may never know if there was tomfoolery with those pipes or they were just buffed to polish them up for selling.
All of them were nice looking though.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,775
45,379
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
On the subject of "unsmoked" pipes, here's what I wrote in another thread:
About "unsmoked" pipes. Unsmoked doesn't mean new. It means unsmoked. A 100 year old unsmoked pipe isn't necessarily going to look new. It's been in the attic, been bounced around in a few moves, or has been displayed on a rack so that the stem got horribly oxidized. Maybe a former owner liked to clench the pipe but never took a match to it, so there are teeth marks. Maybe a former owner dropped the pipe and never smoked it, but it has a couple of dents from being dropped. One of my unsmoked Barlings has clear evidence of light teeth chatter. BTW, this one wasn't sold as an unsmoked pipe. I could see that the pipe was in exceptional condition despite the middling quality pictures. I was shocked to see that it had never been fired up.
People often confuse unsmoked with new. They're not the same thing at all.

 

leslie88

Lurker
Sep 6, 2014
10
2
I was wondering, Sablebrush, if anyone had conducted any research into Barling pipe socks? Form what I can gather they design changed over time with earlier ones being in a triangular/pennant sort of shape, and were browny/beige in colour. The one in my possession is, I think, original to the pipe as both came in poor condition so there was clearly no attempt at fakery. The pipe is a pot with a "barling design" stamp on the thin, Barling style stem. It has no number but is stamped L on right and "Barling's Make" in the older arched style on the left. The sock had a cursive Barling in the same script as a pre-tans guinea grain, but with no " 's " and the loop of the "g" underlines the whole and has "BRITISH MANUFACTURE" printed inside it.

 

drezz01

Can't Leave
Dec 1, 2014
483
6
This may not have a simple answer, and I don't mean to highjack the thread, so leave this hanging if it leads to a rabbit hole - but what is it that makes a Barling worth $1000? I don't ask this facetiously; I just want to know for my own pipe knowledge :)
Feel free to PM me if you think it will start some sort of nasty flame war, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

fnord

Lifer
Dec 28, 2011
2,746
8
Topeka, KS
Drezz:
Flame wars are pretty rare on this forum. Folks here are damned civil, adhere to the forum rules and the moderators will play out just enough rope before the lynchings commence and the thread is shut down.
A politely asked question like yours will never set off a donnybrook but will, I promise, elicit numerous responses and opinions and most of them, by God, will be illuminated solely by the burning bush.
A lot of people like English pipes and a lot of people regard Barling right up there alongside the more well known Dunhill label. They've always been outside of my price range so I can't address their smoking qualities. But, holy hell, that company made beautiful, classic burners and my very best GBDs and Comoy's can't hold a candle to them in the looks department.
Here's a little light reading to further explain the Barling cachet: http://pipedia.org/wiki/Barling
You asked a great question, kiddo. Fortunately, our in-house Barling expert, Sablebrush52, joined in on the conversation and that guy is smarter than a red-assed ape on so many things piping. ( Jeez, no disrespect meant. Jesse has been a fount of terrific information to me.) If he doesn't answer in this thread go ahead and shoot him a PM. You'll get a thoughtful, educated and highly informative response. Sable is one of the good guys, Drezz, and he's always been there for the folks wanting to learn.
Fnord

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,775
45,379
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Geeez, I'm blushing after that endorsement!
Hi drezz,
You've asked a good question. The simple answer can be applied to just about anything and it is this, item "A" is worth x because someone is willing to pay that. Let's get more specific with regard to the Barlings that started this thread.
These Family Era Barlings are unsmoked, which incurs a premium price from collectors. The Barling company was a relatively small operation and they didn't create a large presence in the US, so the pipes are comparatively rare on the market. When you talk about Barling, you're talking abut the history of British pipemaking. To put this in perspective, Barling had been in the pipe business for nearly a century before Dunhill started operations.
Under the family's management, Barling focused on making flawless smooth pipes from the very finest briar obtainable, carved to very exacting specifications. Unlike their competitors, Barling oversaw every aspect of the process from the ground to the store counter. They conducted their own harvesting operations in Algeria, going after very specific wood that they felt provided a superior smoking experience. Barling controlled the curing, cutting and shaping of their pipes, and unlike their competition, they made ALL of their own product after 1906. The pipes were handmade. The internal engineering was always spot on. They largely made pipes to order. Coming from a silversmithing background, their sterling fitments were of the highest caliber. Barling was the perfectionist's perfectionist.
Absolutely no shortcuts were allowed. If a Barling carver became available he was quickly snapped up by the competition. Maintaining this level of fanatical perfectionism was expensive, and that cost is probably what eventually doomed them. After nearly 150 years of pipemaking activity the Barling family sold their company to Finlay, their largest client. The product gradually diminished in quality in an effort to increase profitability.
In their day, Barling was innovative, pioneering the use of push tenons when other makes were still using bone screw-in tenons. They produced a number of specialized bit designs and their patented flat bit stems were widely considered to be the most comfortable available. These are the precursor to the modern thin bits. Outside of the British pipe industry, Dunhill was the best known of the British factory makes, but inside the industry Barling was the 800 lb gorilla.
So does any of this make a Barling worth $1000? If you're not interested in high grade pipes, or pipes with a long history, or of the finest possible quality, then probably not. Even if you are interested in such things, something else may have more appeal to you. The case can be made that no pipe is worth $1000, much less many thousands. But if you're a Barling collector with the means to do so, you'll pay gladly.
It's like the advice Will Rogers offered on investing:
Buy land. God ain't making any more of it.
For me, these aren't of interest. I'm far more a smoker than a collector. I do have a few pieces that I don't smoke. By and large, I'm not interested in buying unsmoked pieces and paying that premium. Also, while unsmoked, these are hardly in mint condition. The stems have been buffed enough so that the Barling crossed stem logo is largely obliterated. Even if I were collecting unsmoked examples, these would not be worth that kind of money to me because of the condition. But that's just me. Presumably the buyer is happy with his purchase at that price or he would not have made that bid.
On another note:
Hi Leslie,
I haven't made a formal study of Barling pipe bags, but I can tell you a little bit about them. Pipes that weren't cased came boxed with a chamois bag that also had a flap over the open end. The chamois bag was in use into the 1940's. Some of these had the script Barling logo, others were plain. These were phased out and replaced with the red satin pipe bag which had the Barling logo printed in metallic gold, or a chamois-like buff colored bag with the logo printed in red ink. Later still, probably after the company was sold to Finlay, a black satin bag with a silver metallic logo came into use. Barling also used a red velvet bag with a draw string for their top-of-the-line Presentation grade in the late 1970's.
The Barling Design stamp on the underside of the stem indicates that your pipe was made between 1950 and early 1962. Barling was justly famous for their pots, and the size "L", for large, should be a terrific smoker.
From the description you give, it sounds to me like the sock is original to the pipe as it's from that period. In later periods, the year 1812 was printed inside the loop of the "g".

 

toby67

Can't Leave
Sep 30, 2014
413
1
Australia
This thread makes for some very interesting reading and gives a lot of insight for a buyer. With unsmoked pipes that have been display pieces for some time oxidation is always a problem unless they are regularly wiped down with obsidian oil (as I have been given to understand by pipe resellers)

 
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