Blends That Aren't Worth Ageing

Just recently opened a 5 year old jar of Penzance that was really dull and uninteresting, the Lat had faded way too much for my liking.

Aged Penzance is rather dull. I am no expert but have tried samples of 10 yr old and fresh side by side and the fresh had much more flavor. Still, both are beat to hell by Larry's Blend, Blackhouse, 10 to Midnight, Quiet Nights, Exotique, etc.

Here's the thing about aging. Aging doesn't improve tobacco flavors. It merely changes tobacco flavors. Whether that change is an improvement is up to the taste and palate of the individual smoker.

Bingo! I often read where people say they like a certain blend, and then state that they will age it, hoping for improvement. That's a crap shoot. If you like it fresh, smoke it fresh.

My cellaring is just putting tobacco back while I can still afford it. Aging isn't even a concern, just a consequence of having too much tobacco on hand to smoke immediately. Lat blends do lose their sharpness with age, Virginias sweeten, and burleys remain mostly the same. Bitey blends will sometimes mellow, and perique blends will often settle into stewed fruit. For me, all of this is by circumstance and not not design.

If you like it fresh, smoke it fresh.

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Yep. If I remember correctly, cellaring pipe tobacco is a fairly recent phenomenon.

My cellaring is just putting tobacco back while I can still afford it. Aging isn't even a concern, just a consequence of having too much tobacco on hand to smoke immediately. Lat blends do lose their sharpness with age, Virginias sweeten, and burleys remain mostly the same. Bitey blends will sometimes mellow, and perique blends will often settle into stewed fruit. For me, all of this is by circumstance and not not design.

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Ditto to that! I do find myself kind of getting caught up in the cellaring hype though from time to time, I mean, I’m only human. Lol. All I’m doing is trying to secure enough of my favorites before prices get Canadian-like. Some blends certainly improve with time but the most radical changes usually occur within a 6 month period and I think that has to do with the melding of tobaccos rather than the age of them. I certainly try to smoke all of my Lat blends before they reach the 5 year mark as I’ve just been disappointed way too many times with aged English blends. I’ll let my Burley and VA blends sit a lot longer without any concern that they’ll be inferior to their fresh counterparts.

chasingembers and hawky sum up the situation neatly. They echo an PM article G.L.Pease wrote about 6 yrs. ago:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/saving-for-a-rainy-day/#more-4300
...and by all means, check out the comment by member kashmir following the article!

Another interesting thread, thanks!

Non-aromatics are my favorites, but I like some tobacco forward aromatics. Sometimes over-flavored aros become better when the flavoring fades. Since I smoke moderately, I end up aging tins longer than intended. Occasionally they improve, often they are about the same; I'd say about a quarter bland-out and must be bolstered with something stronger to make them taste somewhat good. Lat does indeed fade, so isn't usually prime for aging, though some have been pleased by aged Lat blends.

Aging tobaccos can be inconsistent in results. I've had five year old Penzance that lost a little depth of latakia flavor. I've also had 15 year old and seven year old Penzance that were terrific and lost virtually nothing. Last fall, I had some Balkan Sobranie from the early 1960s and late 1960s that was rich and deep in flavor. I also had some early 1980s St. Bruno that lost a little topping, but Sablebrush had some 1970s St. Bruno that didn't.
Early this year, I had some 1980s Nightcap that was duller than watching paint dry, and I had some 1990s Nightcap that lost virtually nothing. I've tried Edgeworth Ready Rubbed and Sir Walter Raleigh in every decade from WW2 until now (or in the case of ERR, 2010), and they all tasted the same, except the 1945 ERR seemed slightly deeper in flavor. Mid-1920s Half & Half and 1950s H&H both lost some topping, but the two versions from the 1970s did not.
I have found seven year old Tilbury, Dunbar, Telegraph Hill, Solani 633 and FVF gained some flavor depth and change. The Virginia in Tilbury was stronger than when fresh, the perique in Solani 633 seemed a little spicier, while the perique in Dunbar had soften a mite. Telegraph Hill had gained all the way around.
I have found that Louisiana Red, Anni Kake and Rolando's Own mellowed after five years. However, a couple years ago, I had some five year old Anni Kake that had lost virtually nothing.
I've had 1938 Capstan Blue that did not age well at all, but the 1940 version had mellowed a little, but still seemed similar to current versions.
This year, I had some 1938 F. And J. Smith Glasgow Smoking Mixture and 1960s Smoker's Haven #10 from freshly opened tins, and they were incredible experiences. The Syrian latakia from the SH #10 was so deep and rich that I could taste the Syrian on my lips and mouth for more than thirty minutes.
Others who have smoked aged blends know it's all a crap shoot. Sablebrush has a few stories of his own that he can tell, particularly with his recent purchases of Haddo's Delight.

I have a couple of 18 year old tins of Black Frigate. The old shoe polish style find that are not vacuum sealed. Probably zombie dust at this point, but when they hit 20 years, I'm going to crack one open and try it out just because. :mrgreen:

This all makes perfect sense. Think about the basics. Some folks like grocery store tomatoes. I prefer garden fresh ones, but even those vary wildly in taste, texture and color. Even ones from the same plant sometimes.
Tobacco is a plant. Each variety is similar within itself, but not exactly the same. Now add to the variable of the plant and year and cultivation all the processing steps. Did the guy who was supposed to be smoking the Latakia smoke his hooka instead? Was the Lakeland perfume finished late on Friday when the guy dumped in the last of whatever it was? Then, start mixing all the parts into blends. OMG, the possibilities are limitless. After that we add AGE? Fermentation and oxidation and all the chemical reactions don't proceed exactly in the same manner every time. Temperatures are different, all kinds of factors can change.
Tobacco blends aren't simple chocolate chip cookies. (Even those vary wildly)
So, best to learn all this for one's self. Jim's experience is invaluable, but you probably won't find the same tin he is smoking unless you are VERY lucky.

:puffpipe:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/saving-for-a-rainy-day/#more-4300
...and by all means, check out the comment by member kashmir following the article!

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Good article, Cortez, thanks for sharing. I've not seen that one before.

Aging tobaccos can be inconsistent in results. I've had five year old Penzance that lost a little depth of latakia flavor. I've also had 15 year old and seven year old Penzance that were terrific and lost virtually nothing. Last fall, I had some Balkan Sobranie from the early 1960s and late 1960s that was rich and deep in flavor. I also had some early 1980s St. Bruno that lost a little topping, but Sablebrush had some 1970s St. Bruno that didn't.

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I'm glad you mentioned this, Jim. Within the past year I was able to sample some Bengal Slices from the 80's and Balkan Sobranie from the late 70's. The Balkan Sobranie tasted fresh and the Lat was sharp like it was just tinned the year before. Whatever the conditions were, they were apparently perfect as that stuff was stellar. The Bengal Slices was a bit more temperamental and I just couldn't get a good smoke from it in a briar. I was, however, able to tease out some flavor when I smoked it in a cob but still I think it would've tasted much better young rather than aged, the Lat was basically undetectable in it.
Overall, I've had far more poor experiences with aged Lat blends than I've had with any other genre so I try to smoke those relatively young based on my personal experience, sometimes you just have to mitigate the risks as I find it can be quite the gamble. I know others have had much better luck with aged English blends than I have and I chalk it up to a matter of personal tastes, as some prefer the mellowing flavors the faded Lat can provide, while I prefer the more pungent, heavy flavors I associate with younger Lat blends. Why one blend in two different tins can have such different results is pretty amazing but can be frustrating for folks putting a lot of money into their cellars. I figure in 20 to 30 years from now we'll know a lot more about this subject as like ChasingEmbers said, cellaring tobacco is pretty recent phenomenon.
I think we can all agree that this aging business can be somewhat of a gamble but can also be a lot of fun as long as you know what you are getting into.

Based on everything I have read here, aging mostly affects Virginias. I have no idea why I would age a Latakia blend except to give it a couple years to slightly tone down the tanginess of the smoked leaf, which might allow other elements in the blend to shine.

The idea that latakia flavor fades over time is hard for me to accept after receiving my order from Whole Leaf for some of their Latakia, which is about 20 yrs old on arrival. Let me tell you, if it's faded, you wouldn't be able to store in at home when it's fresh.

Based on everything I have read here, aging mostly affects Virginias. I have no idea why I would age a Latakia blend except to give it a couple years to slightly tone down the tanginess of the smoked leaf, which might allow other elements in the blend to shine.

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Could not agree more. You can take a gamble and stash some tins for decades (or buy something that old).

But several years to smooth and mellow and you are good to go.
Stating this as 80% of my smokes are with diff level of Lat blends 3 and up to dozen years of age. That allows me to catch very distinctively the sharpness and tanginess when smoking these fresh out of the tin.

The idea that latakia flavor fades over time is hard for me to accept after receiving my order from Whole Leaf for some of their Latakia, which is about 20 yrs old on arrival. Let me tell you, if it's faded, you wouldn't be able to store in at home when it's fresh.

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I think that might be part of the equation though! A lot of these baccies are old before they even get blended with other tobaccies. If the leaf is already 20 years old before it even gets tinned then it’s probably close to the turning point and in another 5 - 10 years it may start fading. This is just a theory, I actually have no idea what I’m talking about.