Barling's Make 1123 "SM" -- Date?

pitchfork · Apr 30, 2017

Paging Jesse Silver...
So I just won this Barling's Make for a not insane price and now I'm wondering what it is I have exactly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172640710640?
I'm assuming it's pre-transition, that the "SM" stands for "small," and that the shape number, "1123" means it's a pre-transition British or European-market Barling. Beyond that, I have no idea what the age might be. It has an orific bit (round hole, no slot), which usually indicates an older pipe, but not sure if that applies here.
Would love to hear from Ye Olde Experts (young ones, too).

sablebrush52 · Apr 30, 2017

Your pipe dates to somewhere between 1926 and 1927 or possibly 1929. Prior to publishing the Pipedia Barling page update last year, a number of pipes from the early 1920's showed up with model numbers that corresponded to the model numbers in the Barling catalog I restored and published a few years ago. In 1926, Barling re-entered the US market after having left it at the beginning of WW1. At the time Barling started exporting to the US, the model numbering system was changed and Barling began using 4 digit model numbers on their pipes. So that gives us the earliest date. By 1929, Barling had given up the orific bits, and some say by 1927. So your pipe fits into that timeframe. S-M stands for small-medium. That dark spot looks like ink.

pitchfork · Apr 30, 2017

Your pipe dates to somewhere between 1926 and 1927 or possibly 1929.

Many thanks, Jesse! Much appreciated. That's much more precise than I ever would have expected. So "S-M" = "Small - Medium" -- that makes sense, as it's not a terribly small pipe by 1920s standards. And wasn't there an "SS" for even smaller pipes?
BTW, are those shape numbers available online anywhere?

sablebrush52 · Apr 30, 2017

Barling sizes prior to the late 1930's consisted of small, medium and large. Starting around 1939 the size range was expanded from SS thru EXEXEL.
As for a complete listing of Barling numbers on line, there is no such thing. There are partial listings to be found here and there. But models were always being added and removed as tastes changed. So far, no catalogs have turned up between the circa 1914 one that I published and the 1962 150th Anniversary catalog, so models that came and went in between aren't known to be documented. I do have a model list that was assembled in September of 1962 by Barling's new American distributor, Diversity Machine Works, but it's limited only to available models at that time. Barling supposedly had well over a thousand templates. They certainly weren't producing anything close to that variety at any given time.

dmcmtk · May 1, 2017

Barling sizes prior to the late 1930's consisted of small, medium and large. Starting around 1939 the size range was expanded from SS thru EXEXEL.

JS, this pipe, with the S-M mark seems to contradict this. I would also say that from the last pipedia article update this sentence should be edited,

"Barling’s published price lists show that they continued to offer pipes in only three sizes, small, medium, and large until 1941. That’s it, small, medium, and large. So when someone claims that they have a 1930’s EL, EXEL, or other size, they are mistaken."

If you recall, I have two examples that contradict this also, one being BARLING'S MAKE (small mark) 1752 EXEXEL.

dmcmtk · May 1, 2017

And wasn't there an "SS" for even smaller pipes?

Yes. I have a SS Guinea Grain floating around somewhere...
A good, but incomplete, listing of shape numbers (3 and 4 digit) is here,
http://yeoldebriars.com/grade_barling.html

sablebrush52 · May 1, 2017

JS, this pipe, with the S-M mark seems to contradict this. I would also say that from the last pipedia article update this sentence should be edited,

Nope, I'm standing behind this. The size listings came from Barling's entries of their product line for Tobacco World. They never had an "M" for medium, just the S-M to cover both. As for the "small mark", I'd need to see a picture of the stamping. Barling used different sized logo stamps, including very small versions, in the 1940's and they expanded the size line sometime around 1939-40, when the "small stamp" could still have been used. The style of block letter used changed and I would need to see the logo stamp on that model 1752.
Ye Olde Briars is a terrific site, though some of the info on Barlings is outdated.

dmcmtk · May 1, 2017

Obi-Wan, putting aside 1752, and just looking at Wes's pipe, can it be said that at some point as early as the late 1920's, pipes were (at some point) marked S (Small), S-M (Medium), and L (Large)...? I have to say it was the S-M mark on Wes's pipe, with the orific bit that surprised me. And as a follow up question, does 1161 from pipedia have a size mark?

sablebrush52 · May 1, 2017

I had a conversation with Tad Gage concerning this question. Tad maintained that Barling didn't use size stamps until much later, but I found one pipe, the "FREAK" pipe, with hallmarks for 1925, that had an "L" stamp in the same spot where Barling placed its size stamps. I maintain that it's a size stamp. But to date, I've not seen another, and my 1161, which I'm looking at as I write this, doesn't have a size stamp. But when a 1920's Barling pipe with an "S" stamp, or one with an "M" stamp shows up, I'll happily revise my article.

dmcmtk · May 1, 2017

Since I couldn't sleep, I thought of another question. Does 1161 have a COM mark?

sablebrush52 · May 1, 2017

No. Just the name of the dealer. Wanna guess who it is?

dmcmtk · May 1, 2017

Just the name of the dealer. Wanna guess who it is?

OK, I'll take a flyer...M. Landaw or Hollingsworth (hey, their weren't any clues, so I get two guesses.).

pitchfork · May 1, 2017

D. Simpson, Edinburgh?

pitchfork · May 1, 2017

Lowndes, Manchester?

sablebrush52 · May 1, 2017

Good guesses, but not correct. It was T. Stewart of Newcastle.

Barling's Make 1123 "SM" -- Date?

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