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Astley Pipes = Re-Stamped Estate Pipes (Photos)

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  1. pitchfork

    pitchfork

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    A recent post on the old "Astley Assertion in Pipedia" thread ( http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/astley-assertion-in-pipedia ) seems to give photographic proof of the assertion that "Astley" pipes being sold by James Upshall Co on ebay are really restamped estate pipes. It is truly shocking. I quote:

    I've just read the same assertion here ( http://www.pfeife-tabak.de/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9627 it's a well known german pipe board ). Even if one can't read
    German, the pictures there are without any doubt. All those Astley's had a previous life as cheap estate pipes.

    For example a Prince Of Wales (top):

    http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/pt0e42kTxQ.png

    Reborn as Astley

    http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/Xw2afCBq0n.png

    Just sold as as Astley

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/1985-WM-ASHTON-TAYLOR-MADE-ASTLEY-SANDBLASTED-POT-SITTER-BRIAR-PIPE-MINT-NR-/400538604186

    I'm afraid, this is more than simple assertion @ pipedia

    Old Estates

    Old Estate Reborn as "Astley" Pipe

    Reborn "Astley" Sold For Profit (wash, rinse, repeat)

    Also, note the feedback total of the buyer of the old estates (above) -- it's over 11,000, as is James Upshall Pipe Co's feedback total.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. guhrillastile

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    That's an embarrassment to all the passionate and hard working people that restore/sell estates pipes.

    Bad juju and just plain not cool. I looked and was hoping it was just coincidental. But grain pattern is a fingerprint. Tsk tsk... That's a bummer.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. pitchfork

    pitchfork

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    Agreed. The grain pattern is undeniable.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. guhrillastile

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    Easy to throw rocks as its an exposed cheat. But it really saddened me too see that. Didn't really expect to have that feeling but I just really got bummed reading and digging around a bit.

    I'm just a lil fish. But you can see from my threads I play in my shop. I build, restore and at times like to be creative and try. So didn't really expect it but just feel sorta ashamed at being associated with that behavior. Not directly, but agitated because the those new or inexperienced are made that much more leary as a whole. Fueling and fulfilling the thoughts that everyone that restores or builds pipes is out to pull one over on someone. Caveats emptor is common enough already in life.

    Card can be played that he did do legitimately good work on the pipe. He did bring it back to life. The quality is nice and I'm sure it will be enjoyed by the buyer. Inflation and supply/demand removes any price point objections for purchase/sale prices too... He is performing work and deserves to make profit. That is also completely understood and encouraged.

    It's the dishonesty. The clear and deliberate behavior with use of labels and branding to deceive buyers into thinking it is something it is not. Just sad. Sad in many ways. Same old story of buyers chasing white dots to determine quality, and sellers that put them there to drive the price. Speculation and aristocracy IS a disturbing part of the hobby for all involved.

    Whoah. Sorry for the derail. I'll put the soap box away. Great post.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. jdto

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    I agree with you, Guhrillastile, it's disappointing to see the restamping take place, as the restorations are well done in and of themselves and if he just sold them honestly as estate pipes, it would be fine.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    I believe that is what some might call 'heinous.'

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. smokeybear

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    thats a piss off


    A Great Storm No Matter How Great, Will Always Pass.
    But The Clam After, Is What You Must Master, In Order For Life To Last.
    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. pitchfork

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    It would be one thing if they were simply using the "Astley" stamp with a wink and a nod (bad enough), but they actually claim that such-and-such pipe was made several years back by Dunhill, William Ashton Taylor, etc. Neither the maker nor the timeline is true in some cases

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. sparrowhawk

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    What is the distinction between Ashton pipes and Ashley pipes? I purchased an Ashton--it's arriving next Monday--and now I'm a bit worried it might not be the real thing. Should I be concerned? PS: the purchase was not from eBay.

    There is no beauty without some strangeness in proportion.
    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Purportedly, Bill Ashton made some Astley pipes for the Astley shop. Don't worry, Sparrowhawk, yours is a real Ashton pipe. Well, as real as it can get now that William Ashton Taylor is dead and Jimmy Craig leads the show at Ashton, but that discussion is for another day.

    And, ironically enough, Sparrowhawk's concern about his Ashton being "real," as some puffers get their buns in a pucker on this Astley thing here, it's important to understand and stress that Astley actually never made their own pipes anyway. All Astleys were made by premier pipe makers such as Dunhill, Charatan, Upshall, and others -- much like Comoy's made pipes for Jost's in Saint Louis, or Dunhil made pipes for Ed's, etc.

    Is Mordechai Ezrati blowing smoke up our a$$? It's certainly clear that someone took a lot of time and work to make it appear that he is.

    I think of it like this. I own two Astleys, both gorgeous pipes. Neither bought from Ezrati. Neither pipe has any definitive provenance -- which means that we can guess who made each of them, but no one really knows. Even if I was buying a brand new Astley, from Paul Bentley himself, in his shop at 109 Jermyn Street, I'm thinking it likely it would be just as hard for me to guess who made it unless he told me and without written proof, I'd have to take his word for it.

    As noted in another thread on this, Ezrati pontificating on the provenance of the Astley pipes he's trying to sell is, at best, probably a wild guess and and worst outright bullsh!t.

    Bottom line for me: If I see an estate Astley from a reputable vendor that I really like, and the price is a good value, I'll buy it and won't worry about who made it and how the stamping and logo got on the pipe. Would I buy a "new" Upshall from Ezrati? Maybe. Would I buy a "new" Astley from Ezrati? Definitely not.

    Thanks, Pitch, for an interesting read.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Funny you should mention that roth. I just came across a bunch of pipes marked "Hiland's" in an estate I purchased. It is obvious to me that some of these were made for this shop by Comoy's et al. I say this because some of the markings look familiar, particularly the circular "Made In London" you see on Comoy's pipes.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Yep, Sam. Happens all the time. I've got a Wally Frank made by Comoy -- Al here recently posted a pic of his pipe (a Comoy pipe) and my Wally and his Comoy are identical except for the stampings.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. bobpnm

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    Too many excellent and honest folks to buy pipes from to waste any time at all on someone who would do something like this.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. guhrillastile

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    I respectfully disagree. To shrug off the notion that you can't get worked up and act suprised at it, sure. But for instance look through the feedbacks. At a glance, the seller IS a knowledgeable and well regarded proprietor in our hobby. It's a fools market on the bidding site. But some of us amongst the ranks here count on their reputation for a livelyhood. So I do respectfully dissagree and don't think it is a waste of time at all.

    Should the seller be burned at the stake? No of course not. And without a track history of such grievances we should also factor in the possibility that they may have gotten mixed up with hundreds of other pipes all in some stage of repair/refurbish during the process. It can get confusing quickly when you have multiple irons in the fire. I have never personally had interaction with the seller. I cannot vouch for anything about the circumstances or practices of the seller. I have however been rather vocal about it since being made aware of it. I will own my words but reserve my judgement before condemning him/her. I would hope other would agree and do not shrug it off till more is heard. Thousands of positive transactions. Many on the higher end. That does interest me.

    I do not defend his actions but without the full story I will urge the hangman to finish his coffee and let some of the dust settle before swinging.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Want to do something about this? Send these images to ebay's compliance department. I personally wouldn't buy anything from this dealer. His previous statements on the "me" section of his pages set off all sorts of alarms. When buying on ebay, use caution.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. pitchfork

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    And, ironically enough, Sparrowhawk's concern about his Ashton being "real," as some puffers get their buns in a pucker on this Astley thing here, it's important to understand and stress that Astley actually never made their own pipes anyway. All Astleys were made by premier pipe makers such as Dunhill, Charatan, Upshall, and others -- much like Comoy's made pipes for Jost's in Saint Louis, or Dunhil made pipes for Ed's, etc.

    OK, roth, now you're getting all "metaphysical" with the scare quotes regarding what's "real." What you say is all true, but the descriptions for these pipes claim that they were made by, variously, Dunhill, Charatan, Bill Taylor, etc. But one of these "Bill Taylor" pipes, as seen from the photos, was actually made in Podunk No-Name Pipe Factory by someone other than Bill Taylor.

    As noted in another thread on this, Ezrati pontificating on the provenance of the Astley pipes he's trying to sell is, at best, probably a wild guess and and worst outright bullsh!t.

    Well, in terms of the Ashton pipe in question, I don't think there's any doubt about what's going on. And bullsh!t, by the way, isn't the proper name for it. What Rob Cooper (coopersark) writes about his pipes could be described as bullsh!t (and he's good at it!), but saying a pipe was made by Bill Taylor when you know it isn't is nothing but a lie.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Cutting to the chase?

    As I stated, quite clearly I think, it's probably a good idea to just avoid buying NOS Astley pipes from Ezrati, period.

    Then avoid all the drama and move on

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    I purchased an Ashton--it's arriving next Monday--and now I'm a bit worried it might not be the real thing. Should I be concerned?

    sparrowhawk,

    Wow. This is flabbergasting about the so-called Astley's. But I wanted to expunge on your comment. I just posted about an Ashton that was really messed up on the rim. Now I am wondering if this so-called Ashton wasn't really a rebranded second. My gosh it has to be. No way would a real Ashton be messed up like that.

    I don't want to cause you alarm. But if you could let me know what happens ( privately if you wish ) when you get it, I would be very interested to know. It is a good thing to exchange information such as this.

    Postscript:

    See my Ashton post.

    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/a-bad-ashton-pipe-no-kidding-mind-blown

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. ssjones

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    As noted in another thread on this, Ezrati pontificating on the provenance of the Astley pipes he's trying to sell is, at best, probably a wild guess and and worst outright bullsh!t.

    I really didn't want to believe this assertion, but that is pretty damning evidence that some dishonesty is at work.

    Well said rothtn. I have bought an Astley's from this seller and as an Upshall fan, I frequently checked those auctions. I've heard of no hanky-panky with Upshall pipes, but I won't be using this vendor any longer just to be safe.

    As you have stated, Astley's were always made by others so I don't have any qualms about the one I own from Ezrati. But to rebrand a pipe as an Ashton is a travesty.

    It is sad to bring this kind of shame to the James Upshall brand. Personally I still don't think any new Upshalls are being made or sold. I'd love to hear from someone in the UK who has seen differently at a shop.

    Al

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    It is sad to bring this kind of shame to the James Upshall brand. Personally I still don't think any new Upshalls are being made or sold. I'd love to hear from someone in the UK who has seen differently at a shop.

    Not to get off this thread's topic on Astely pipes, but all this is nothing short of intriguing and brings up an interesting point: Where is Barry Jones in all this? A recluse, busily making pipes deep in the bowls of a cellar near Stonehenge? Who knows. One thing for sure, from what I know, Barry Jones is a respected pipe maker who allegedly is the respected artisan who makes every Upshall pipe and, thankfully, Barry's creations (thus far anyway) speak for themselves.

    I just find it extremely odd and more than a bit disconcerting that we know so little about Barry.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. ssjones

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    Pitchfork rec'd an email from Ezrati, saying Barry Jones was still making pipes and he could do a commission. I find absolutely zero on Barry via Google, nor is he listed in white pages near Tilshead. I also find all of that quite odd as well. I have no idea how old Barry might be? Pipepedia said he started making pipes at 15 and has over 40 years of experience. That puts him somewhere in the late 50's or early 60's. Surely at that age he might be more prominent. Has anyone seen Barry at a UK pipe event/show?

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    I do not defend his actions but without the full story I will urge the hangman to finish his coffee and let some of the dust settle before swinging.

    I agree. Do we have a smoking gun and absolute proof, besides hearsay and the worn-out allegations, that Ezrati is doing this?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. cigrmaster

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    Sorry but the first picture of three pipes that were bought for 20.50 do not show up in the Ashton Astley picture. The pot that is allegedly an Ashton does not have a silver band where the one in the first pic clearly shows either silver or nickle. Maybe I am missing something? The Ashton stem sure looks like an original also.

    The one Astley I owned was alleged to be a Dunhill. I compared the stem to the Dunhill I owned and they were an exact match, and the pipe looked like A Dunhill in all respects. When I got the pipe I was leery which is why I immediately compared it to my Dunhill and if I thought for any reason it was a fake I would have returned it. I have seen many of his Upshall Astleys listed and they also have the same stems and the same stains as many of the Upshalls I have owned. Now I am not saying that this guy from Upshall is not a crook, but I would need to see a lot more evidence than the pics above.

    Harris
    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. pitchfork

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    Pitchfork rec'd an email from Ezrati, saying Barry Jones was still making pipes and he could do a commission.

    That was someone else (coalsmoke?) -- I remember reading this earlier, though.

    Sorry but the first picture of three pipes that were bought for 20.50 do not show up in the Ashton Astley picture. The pot that is allegedly an Ashton does not have a silver band where the one in the first pic clearly shows either silver or nickle. Maybe I am missing something? The Ashton stem sure looks like an original also.

    Harris, if you click the link to the pics provided by the German pipester, you can see the pics blown up quite a bit. Yes, the band was removed from the old pipe, but the grain pattern is unmistakably the same. Maybe it's just this one pipe, but the evidence on this pipe seems clear to me.

    Moreover, I think the stem is "original" as you say (whatever that means for an Astley) -- but this may be the kind of thing that Al had heard about at one of the shops he frequents -- that Upshall was putting new stems on old pipes. However, I don't think the guy Al spoke with said anything putting new stems on no-name estate pipes.

    Also, your Astley may indeed be a Dunhill-made pipe. The nicer Astleys I've seen on their page do indeed look like Dunhills and Upshalls to my eye. On the other hand, some of them look like rusticated Savinellis.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. ssjones

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    However, I don't think the guy Al spoke with said anything putting new stems on no-name estate pipes.

    No, I never heard that allegation.

    I doubt any of this could ever be "proven", but the water is murky enough that I won't be using this vendor. Another Astley's pipe is not really on my radar map, so that is not an issue. Since my name is Al, I definitely needed a pipe stamped with my initial and I've satisfied that need.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. pitchfork

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    Thanks for chiming in, Al.

    BTW, there were some other examples in that German thread -- I only reposted the sandblasted example because it's clearly the same pipe and had the most photos going along with it.

    As it happens (I didn't realize this earlier), but they were actually discussing Harris's Astley pipe (a rusticated Dublin) at one point:

    A complete untangling of the "secondary use" is probably no longer possible....Just in the What-Are-You-Smoking-thread at Pipes Magazine is teeming with Moty's refurbishments and suspects. The Stories of Astley's that were made by Andreas Bauer or Preben Holm are of course nonsense and not worth a damn. Please forgive me for the Board cross-linking:

    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/latest-addition-to-my-british-collection # post-239649

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Pitchfork rec'd an email from Ezrati, saying Barry Jones was still making pipes and he could do a commission.

    That was someone else (coalsmoke?)

    Yeah, that was in response to an email that I sent to him. By not publicly refuting these allegations, he's allowing these suspicions to continue...unless, of course, he's actually guilty. I tend to think he wouldn't stoop that low because his reputation would be destroyed and he would kiss his Upshall business good-bye. Maybe I'll shoot him another email and get his side of the story. Getting letter stamps is easy and counterfeiting pipes has been around for a long time. Dunhill counterfeit pipes are an example. I'm not defending the man by any means...I just don't believe every rumor on the internet until I see hard evidence.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    pipinho

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    We should publicly ask him and request a yes or no answer.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    waluljan

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    Hey folks,

    look at the first pictures in the german board:

    http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/bsTs3Hfsue.png

    How one can doubt this "crime" after that proof!

    Check the grain. Any doubts?

    @ cigrmaster: Check the sandblasted Prince Of Wales. Exactly the same blasted texture on two pipes? I don't think this is possible at all.
    Not to mention the curious piece of luck, the fact, the same person bought the one and sold the other... Please!
    ____

    Greetings Waluljan

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    How one can doubt this "crime" after that proof!

    I may be a bit dense in my old age and I missed something. What does that link show as 'proof'? Forgive me, but what am I supposed to be looking at/for in that link again?

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    I doubt any of this could ever be "proven"

    Spot on, that.

    How one can doubt this "crime" after that proof!

    Sorry but IMO, this "proof" is a bit wonky.

    To reiterate and illustrate further, Charatan did make more than a few pipes for Astley. It is not only possible, but highly likely, that some Charatan stummels of the same shape, size and grade were not only stamped and sold as Astleys but, with the appropriate stampings and logos, as Charatans and who knows how many other "house brands" -- different stems/brandings, yet the same pipes. It's also logical, bear with me now, that other pipe makers, also known to have made and sold pipes to Astley as "Astley pipes" did the same thing.

    When all is said and done, I find this to be much ado about little.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  32. cigrmaster

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    waluljan, I am not going to the German board as I do not speak the language. The link you showed shows two pipes with very similar shapes. I only see a 1/4 of the pipe on the left with no shot of the stem, if you are intimating that because the shapes look the same, that they are the exact same pipe then your detective skills are lacking, I have seen that shape before on other pipes. I honestly could care less about this whole thing because I would never do business with that seller again since there is so much out there pointing to him being a crook.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  33. daveinlax

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    When all is said and done, I find this to be much ado about little.

    Yeah but the pipe world is pretty small and this has been a topic among collectors for years. These misrepresented pipes will be floating around for unsuspecting suckers for years. Not to mention the NOS BS he's been peddlin'.
    The link you showed shows two pipes with very similar shapes. I only see a 1/4 of the pipe on the left with no shot of the stem, if you are intimating that because the shapes look the same, that they are the exact same pipe then your detective skills are lacking

    Look at the blast. It's the same pipe. I would like to inspect the shank with a loupe. I'll bet there's a faint crack.8O

    Posted 5 years ago #
  34. pitchfork

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    When all is said and done, I find this to be much ado about little.

    Knowingly selling pipes as having been made by prominent English makers for Astley, when in fact they are no-name estate pipes that were recently refurbished, is fraud, which happens to be illegal. The proof on the Ashton-made "Astley" referenced here, to my eyes, is rock-solid. The blast pattern is exactly the same. It was bought and sold by the same ebay account (James Upshall Co.). No one would sue over a $100 pipe, but men have been hung on less evidence.

    As for the Charatan (or "Charatan") listed above, you would have to look closer at more of the different pictures and be able to see the buyer and seller as being the same (which isn't clear from the photos posted).

    BTW, you should see what that account has been buying this past week or two -- unsmoked no-name estates, unfinished stummels (sans stems), two Don Florian pipes with great grain, etc. Maybe the holder of the jamesupshallco account likes crappy estate pipes, but it looks like something else to me.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Wait...are we talking about 'jamesupshallco' or 'jamesupshallpipeco'? The 'jamesupshallpipeco' is Ezrati's eBay site. If someone is buying scrap under the eBay account 'jamesupshallco', the use of THAT handle is suspicious. Again, what would Ezrati gain by selling junk? Certainly no big bucks...His 100% feedback on his eBay site and the thousands of pipes sold is what he would lose. I can't see the motive behind this if it IS indeed Ezrati behind the sale of cheap knock-offs.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Umm...not that one would necessarily receive total truth, but has anyone messaged the parties on eBay and asked or expressed concern?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  37. pitchfork

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    Wait...are we talking about 'jamesupshallco' or 'jamesupshallpipeco'? The 'jamesupshallpipeco' is Ezrati's eBay site. If someone is buying scrap under the eBay account 'jamesupshallco', the use of THAT handle is suspicious.

    Sorry, coalsmoke, it's jamesupshallpipeco that I'm talking about and that the German fellow was talking about. Apparently he's been watching the buying and selling patterns of that handle and noticed that many of the estates (no-names, Baris, Savinellis, etc.) return as reborn Astleys and Ashtons. What made him initially suspicious, he says, is that all of these Astley pipes started appearing on the market and that many of them were drastically different in terms of style than any of the Astleys he had been accustomed to seeing before. Now, I don't think he has photographic/screen shot evidence for every single instance of this happening, but the Ashton-made Astley (sandblasted pot) discussed here is difficult to explain away. That example, to me, is devastating to the company's credibility unless there is an innocent explanation. There may be such an explanation, but I can't think of one (and I wasn't suspicious at all until I saw the Ashton/Astley pot photos).

    Again, what would Ezrati gain by selling junk? Certainly no big bucks...His 100% feedback on his eBay site and the thousands of pipes sold is what he would lose. I can't see the motive behind this if it IS indeed Ezrati behind the sale of cheap knock-offs.

    Big bucks can indeed be made by doing what's been alleged. If you were to clean up a no-name Danish freehand, for example, and stamp it "James Upshall," you could sell it for hundreds of dollars.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTRA-LARGE-1985-JAMES-UPSHALL-HIGH-GRADE-G-FREEHAND-DANISH-STYLE-BRIAR-MINT-NR-/400539227501?

    Is that the case with this pipe? Obviously I don't know, but the styling looks Danish to me, not like that of Barry Jones. And the stamping is CRISP and clean. I wouldn't think of buying it just for those reasons. Regardless, if the company has been doing what the German has alleged, clearly it could be profitable.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    waluljan

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    As for the Charatan (or "Charatan") listed above, you would have to look closer at more of the different pictures and be able to see the buyer and seller as being the same (which isn't clear from the photos posted).

    On the other picture in the german board ( http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/dUk1MLvsVe.png) you can see the whole ebay data: seller, item ID etc. You
    can check using the item ID, who's the buyer: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=251085458987

    I'd guess, this so called Charatan's early years are quite clear, it's less noble ancestry too.

    _____

    Greetings Waluljan

    Posted 5 years ago #
  39. pitchfork

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    11683 -- yep, that's the feedback total for jamesupshallpipeco on ebay.

    And here's a screenshot of the feedback left for the seller of the estate. It's jamesupshallpipeco alright.


    http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&userid=carol_3101&iid=251085458987&de=off&items=25&interval=0&mPg=57&page=8

    Posted 5 years ago #
  40. rebornbriar

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    I have just joined pipesmagazine after doing a Google search on this topic and finding this post. I also read the accusations on pipedia.org on the Fribourg & Treyer page, but when trying to find it again, the article has been amended on 14 August removing the accusation, but if you haven't sen the original yet, Google have a copy of it in their cache

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PVateS3ZYO8J:www.pipedia.org/wiki/Fribourg_%2526_Treyer+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

    As an estate pipe seller on eBay, I rely on the site to make a substantial part of my living and anything that has the potential to bring further harm to the marketplace as a whole is worrying, especially something of this magnitude.

    I have to say that I have had my suspicions for a long time about Mr Ezrati, but I have not had the time to dig deeply into his eBay dealings. The sheer volume of old pipes that he buys is bewildering. A while ago, he won one of my auctions. On receipt of the pipe he contacted me to ask for a refund. Perhaps the pipe was not suitable for re-branding?

    Anyway, I took my opportunity to reply to his eBay message and asked about the volume of pipes he purchased and what he did with them. I was thinking at the time if there was any opportunity for me to pick some up. His reply was that he had many of them restored by "Mr Jones" and re-sold them, and others were used to practice on in the workshop. As he knew what I did for a living, he also said that "Mr Jones" would be retiring soon and he would be looking for a good repairer.

    Now this raised my suspicions. If he had the pipes restored and re-sold them, where was he selling them? eBay is his only outlet and he certainly wasn't re-selling them there - at least in the guise in which he had bought them. Also, why would a craftsman with the high reputation of Barry Jones, need old estate pipes to practice on, especially if no new pipes were being produced in the workshop.

    He is also fairly astute in trying to cloak things. Although he originally contacted me through the eBay messaging system, he did not reply to my question there, but instead sent me an email, so there would be no record of the conversation on eBay servers. Also, as soon as a pipe is sold, he removes all the pictures from the auction, the only one remaining being the small eBay picture. So it is impossible to look at any of his sold items and see the close up pictures.

    There is certainly a lot of smoke, but I feel the fire is only starting to emerge.

    Alan
    Posted 5 years ago #
  41. ssjones

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    Thank you Rebornbriar for sharing your insights and experience. This whole thing now makes me very sad.
    Welcome by the way! I do follow your Ebay auctions and you always have some quality and interesting offerings.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  42. flakyjakey

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    I joined pipesmagazine today specifically because of the 'Astley/Upshall' issue. I have smoked pipes since 2000, and more recently have been collecting high-end English pipes, mostly from Ebay auctions and sales. I have about fifty pipes, all of which I smoke. Amongst these are two Upshall P grades, one G grade and one E grade, all bought through Ebay. They are carved from fine briar, have the same "look" and appropriate stampings. I suspect they were made by the same craftsman (hopefully Barry Jones). They are all a joy to smoke. I also bought a couple of 'Astleys' from the same source. One was an octagonal half-warden, purportedly made for Astley by Dunhill, but it looks Danish and unlike any other Dunhill I have seen. Am I bothered? Not for myself - it cost me £70, smokes like a dream and is lighter than any other of my pipes.

    I am however concerned about the example shown on the German website. To my relatively untutored, but diagnostically-sharp, eye the grains appear identical (like a finger print?). If this pipe has been doctored from a non-Ashton pipe and sold as an 'Ashton Made' pipe for financial gain (why do it otherwise?) surely that constitutes fraud? Which leaves me with two final thoughts. Firstly, if Reborn Briar is correct, Mr Jones is frittering away his pre-eminent pipe-carving expertise by 'tarting up old tat'. Why is he not training apprentices in this most noble of English crafts? Secondly, when word of this spreads (and it is likely to do so) it will inhibit consumers like me from buying on Ebay, and by besmirching the pipe restoring industry as a whole could damage the livelihoods of reputable members of the fraternity.

    Would I now buy another 'Astley' from Upshall's - no! Might I buy another properly stamped 'James Upshall' of characteristic appearance? - possibly. If I had an estate pipe restoration business, would I report the issue to Ebay? - certainly. Would I then, with like-minded colleagues, seek out clear evidence of fraud and if it was found proceed with further action? - Yes I would.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  43. pitchfork

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    Thank you Rebornbriar for sharing your insights and experience. This whole thing now makes me very sad.
    Welcome by the way!

    I'll second that. Welcome to the forums! And I agree with Al, this whole thing is very sad indeed. Is "Mr. Jones" really toiling away turning no-name Danish dross into Astley gold? It sounds like something out of a fairy tale or a Gothic novel. Truly bizarre.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  44. rebornbriar

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    Thank you for the welcome. Unfortunately time constraints prevent me from visiting or contributing to forums on a regular basis. I wish I could devote more time to doing so.

    I have had to take time out of my schedule to look more closely at what is going on, and what I have uncovered is at least suspicious and at most disturbing. I hope it will be worthwhile pursuing this for the sake of PROTECTING both the marketplace and unsuspecting buyers. I think we have to bear in mind that the practice is till continuing and will continue to do so as long as Ezrati is selling pipes. I therefore think that as pipe smokers, we have a responsibility to become involved in this issue to protect future fellow smokers who are unwittingly buying these pipes from their hard earned money.

    Through this practice, he is not only besmirching the good name of Astley, but also that of Dunhill, Charatan, the Late Bill Taylor, Barry Jones, Colin Fromm, Ferndown and Les Wood - all that is great in the British pipe making industry. That is how deep this runs! He is using all these names in his descriptions and this is another reason why the pipe smoking community in general need to become involved, to bring a swift end to this practice. What direct action that can be taken is another matter. In the UK it is more likely to have action taken as a result from a complaint by a consumer.

    I have brought Les Wood's name into this because of the suspicious silver work on the pipes. Please note that in no way am I implicating Les in any suspicious activity. After all, Les did all the silver work for Upshall, so if Ezrati sends him a batch of pipes and asks for silver bands or other silver decorations to be added, Les will oblige. There is a legal issue though with this silver work which I will go on to explain. This is what has again raised my suspicions in the sales I can find on the eBay system that are either currently for sale or have been sold recently in the limited time-scale that eBay allow us to look back to.

    Firstly I would like to talk about the legal implcations of hallmarking in the UK. I have substantial experience in this area as my partner and I were previously involved in the jewellery trade. Hallmarks in the UK date back to 1558, so this is nothing new! It is a legal requirement that every single piece of precious metal (silver, gold or platinum)that is sold in the UK, requires an official hallmark which consists of a makers/sellers mark as well as the official Assay Office marks. We have our own seller/maker mark. Every one of these marks in the UK must be unique, and registered with the Assay Office. What this requires is that every piece of silver decoration MUST be sent to an offial Assay office, where the metal is scraped and chemically tested for its purity. It is then officially stamped by the Assay office with the symbol of the office that did the assay test, the symbol for the purity of the metal, and a date letter signifying when the piece was tested. Each piece of metal is independently tested and stamped which is why a pipe with a silver spigot, tenon and bowl cap will have an official hallmark on each piece. To sell anything in the UK which has precious metal content, without that being officially assay tested is illegal.

    I can understand why Les Wood does not assay his silver work. Items that are being exported from the UK do not need to be assay tested and in many countries, like the USA, assay testing is not a legal requirement. Les Wood exports his Ferndown pipes to the USA and his Elwood pipes to Europe, mostly Germany - so official assay testing of the silver is not required. Similarly, if he fits a silver band, the cost of sending an item like this off for testing and hallmarking would eat out a large part of his profit. However, if the item is then being sold in the UK like the mysterious Dunhill Astley pipes with LJS silver bands, then it is the reponsibility of the seller to have the silver assay tested and hallmarked, which Ezrati is clearly not doing.

    This raises another question. Ezrati is keen to hail many of the pipes as being made by the Dunhill company and fitted with factory-fitted Les Wood silver bands stamped LJS - linking the fact that Les was silversmith at the Dunhill factory. However, show me a Dunhill pipe anywhere in the world with a factory fitted band that is stamped LJS. They don't exist. Dunhill were perfectly aware of their legal obligations in this respect and all their factory fitted silver bands are stamped AD and officially assay tested and hallmarked as required of a manufacturer and retailer in the UK. It seems quite clear that these bands were not factory fitted, but were an after market addition to lend kudos to the pipe on offer, as being an "official" Dunhill product. In fact one of the pipes he was claiming had a Dunhill factory fitted silver band stamped LJS was covering half of the nomenclature on the shank of the pipe! Even more worrying is THIS PIPE which he claims to be a Dunhill but the silver is only stamped SILVER 925. A 925 stamp is not even a recognised mark in the UK so there is no way Dunhill would send out such items. Making these claims, and selling silver clad pipes not properly assay tested and hallmarked are both breaches of Trading Standards regulations. Even claiming a pipe is from a particular year without documentary evidence to back it up is a breach of the regulations, whether done knowingly or not.

    However, Trading Standards are only likely to take action on receiving a complaint or notification from a consumer - and not from another trader.

    Other anomolies are the 9mm filter pipes. This one is a "Dunhill from 1986" yet has a 9mm filter fitting. I was not aware of Dunhill making 9mm filter pipes in the 1980's, especially for a UK retailer! Likewise, this very Danish looking Bill Taylor "Ashton" from 1985 is also fitted with a 9mm filter. Something a UK pipe maker would not do as a matter of course for a UK retailer. 9mm filter pipes are normally bound for and retrieved from the German market.

    These are just a few goings on that I have uncovered today. I am sure as time goes on, more examples like that discovered on the German forum linking pipe purchase to pipe sale will emerge. This practice exceeds the boundaries of Trading Standards and constitutes fraud. A matter which would be investigated by the Police and dealt with through the courts and criminal justice system.

    If anyone has any further suspicions or evidence of wrong doing, please make the community aware of it or even send me a PM. Hopefully together we can clear up this mess.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  45. ssjones

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    Reborn Briar: Thanks for taking the time to share your asute observations and pipe knowledge. It's shame we have to use this topic to learn of your expertise. I hope you will be able to contribute to the forum on more pleasant topics.

    Flakeyjakey: I welcome another James Upshall collector to the forum. Vintage Upshalls are really fine pipes. We have a "show us your Upshalls" thread here, I'd love to see your collection pieces.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  46. pitchfork

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    Thanks, again, rebornbriar, for adding to this discussion. The links you give link back to the other Astley thread, not to the pipes you mention, but they are easy enough to find on ebay.

    I also find it interesting that the Pipes Forum That Shall Remain Nameless has a thread discussing this same topic. I'm not surprised that there is such a thread, but I'm truly surprised that the moderators haven't deleted it. That the Other Forum is allowing this topic to be discussed is significant in its own right.

    BTW, the person who removed the text from Pipedia regarding this topic is anonymous. Only the IP address was given.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    mattm

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    Wow, I'm a real newbie to this hobby and only own two pipes. I nearly bought a pipe from this guy at the weekend, it was my birth year pipe and it was my birthday at the weekend so I was very tempted as you can imagine. Glad I didnt bid now. Thank god for communities like this where all of your vast knowledge can come together in one place! It's great for newbies like me!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  48. pitchfork

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    Welcome, mattm. You've stumbled upon a smelly little mess in the hobby and in the estate market. I hope this kind of thing doesn't turn you off from what is otherwise a fun and rewarding pastime. There are many reputable pipe dealers on ebay, some of them regular contributors to these and other forums.

    Again, welcome! Hope you stick around.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    JAMESUPSHALLPIPECO is bidding on one of my items. I will have to keep an eye out and see if this also turns into an Astley, if he wins that is.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    I don't post here often, I am more of a regular on that "other" forum. I find this whole story most alarming and I was pleased to see that it was being discussed elsewhere. No longer though, it has now been curtailed on the grounds of being "junk."

    Posted 5 years ago #
  51. captainsousie

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    @sam Really interesting that he is bidding on those 2 pipes. I hope they don't show back up but the worry is there.

    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
    Posted 5 years ago #
  52. pitchfork

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    Hi, peterpiper. Welcome.

    I saw that as well. I understand there are certain rules at the UK forum that don't apply here, but the words "junk" and "disappointment" are mystifying (to me anyway). We're well beyond the realm of speculation or "naming and shaming." There is firm evidence indicating that old estates have been tarted up, however skillfully, as "Astley" pipes. I think many here agree it is worth discussing and airing in the open -- at least for the sake of unsuspecting buyers.

    Apparently questions and suspicions about this topic had been raised in the past from different corners, but the German fellow who followed the purchases and sales of the Upshall ebay handle has what looks to be rock-solid proof that something is amiss. Frankly, I understand people's reluctance to talk about this in case it turns out to be a misunderstanding and ruins someone's reputation, but the evidence on at least two pipes is very clear. To claim that various pipes were made by Charatan or by Bill Taylor cannot be a mere accident or mix-up.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  53. cigrmaster

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    No surprise the thread was closed at SF, they have a history of protecting known scumbags and thieves. No matter what kind of evidence is presented or discussed, the mods there will not allow for any discussions of this type.

    I sent an email to the owner of the Upshall company asking for my money back for the Astley I purchased last July and here is his response.

    " Dear Sir,
    I was surprised to receive your E-bay message, especially after you have had and enjoyed the pipe you bought for over a year. Just for your information, for many years the Astley Pipe Company have purchased all its pipes from various manufacturers, Comoy, GBD in the early years, Dunhill, Charatan, Ashton, James Upshall and Ferndown to name a few. Most of the pipes were finished by the various manufacturers unless Mr Bentley asked for a specific shape or finish. The pipe you purchased was definitely a Dunhill made Astley with a rusticated finish. When I purchased the James Upshall Pipe Company in 1996 I continued to supply Mr Bentley of the Astley Pipe shop with over 50% of his pipes. The rest were made up of the above mentioned manufacturers. I later purchased the Astley of Jermyn Street Pipe Company from Mr Bentley, and received all stock he had, some 2,500 pre-smoked pipes and 3,000 new pipes. When questions were raised on forums in the past, regarding the date of manufacture by pipe smokers who had no knowledge of the pipe business, I have always answered all queries and the forum administrators control the dialogue to ensure factual basis for all threads. Removing any which were slanderous. If something has gone wrong with the pipe you have purchased I will be more than happy to offer an exchange as all Astley pipes comes with a guarantee. However, the question which has arisen from your message is why have you decided you no longer liked the pipe after smoking it for over a year?
    Both the Upshall and Astley pipe companies are registered with Company House and are run with customer service and honesty as prime objectives. We have no cause to fabricate any pipe origins as we have a full stock of all our pipe ranges. Lastly, I would appreciate if you could forward details of the forums or any persons spreading this false information. Await hearing from you. M Ezrati Managing Director"

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    mattm

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    Thanks for the warm welcome. Glad I dodged a bullet! I'll be following this thread with interest

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    mattm

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    So was he supplying revamped estate pipes to the astley shop?!

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    So was he supplying revamped estate pipes to the astley shop?!

    No. Upshall, along with other British pipe makers, was supplying Upshall pipes to the Astley shop until it closed. Mr. Ezrati, allegedly, per his Email to Harris, quoted above, "purchased the Astley of Jermyn Street Pipe Company from Mr. Bentley, and received all stock he had, some 2,500 pre-smoked pipes and 3,000 new pipes."

    Posted 5 years ago #
  57. flakyjakey

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    I see that there is an jamesupshallpipeco eBay auction on a "1985 William Ashton Taylor Made Astley" in 14 hrs time. This got me to thinking. Rebornbriar listed a number of pipe makers whose names have been linked to "Astley" pipes allegedly re-engineered from "tat" estate pipes, either no-names or names other than that specified in Upshalls description of the pipe at sale.

    Not all of these makers are still operating, but Dunhill and others are. Surely the latter would not be happy for their elite brand names to be used in this way? It would tend to besmirch their own reputations. Are they aware of what has been uncovered. and the serious concerns voiced by members of the pipe smoking and pipe restoring communities? Maybe they should be told? If they could confirm, for example, that an Upshall "Astley" sold as having been made by them had not been made/supplied by them it seems that this would provide another strand of "proof" of malpractice.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  58. guhrillastile

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    Cigrmaster- You did leave him a link, correct?

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Good Afternoon All;

    When I first read the beginnings of this post I wanted to jump in, but thought it best to see how it flowed and played out. Now is the time I think I’d like to offer some thoughts. This may offend some people sensitivities and for that please accept my apologies.

    As we sit back in our lofty clouds of tobacco smoke and peer down on those lesser than us ( you know, those non pipe enjoyers ) and pontificate on how great our hobby is, we forget one thing. As pipe enjoyers and collectors it is a hobby. To those that sell, it is a business. Some do their business 100% above board, pay taxes, run web sites or B&M’s, deal directly with clients and all the things that a good business person should do. Others do this for fun and as a part time “gig”. The latter may be dubbed as a “hobby business”. There are also some that do this completely below the radar and make a tidy little tax free income.

    When we make a general statement about avoiding E-Bay due to a few, you paint a number of very honest good sellers / businesses with the same brush. There are sponsors of this site that sell on E-Bay on a regular basis. Have we just called into question their ethics, because they sell on E-Bay as well as through their B&M? I certainly hope not!

    As far as Rob Cooper ( coopersark ) and what was called his BS descriptions…. Well Rob sells for clients. His job is to get the maximum amount of dollars for his clients, as well as help himself with his fees. Does he offer sexy and exciting descriptions which enhance what he is selling? Damn rights he does. It’s what he’s supposed to do! You all watch tv. If you watch even a single commercial you see the exact same thing! Sellers, sell products. Our job is to make it something you want and must have. As long as we do not blatantly lie about our products, it’s all fair game.

    When you slam E-Bay, you also suggest that some well known, and highly respected sellers are not honest. I have dealt with many and have yet to find a crook amongst them. Treasurepipes, Great Estate Pipes, Smokers Haven, Pipestud, MrCan are ALL people I have dealt with and trust and will deal with again, and again, and again. There are others I could add to the list and I’m sure many of you could add sellers you have found to be excellent as well. Yes there are also some that I avoid like the plague. So let’s not nail E-Bay’s butt to the wall. They are just the delivery method. E-Bay has nothing to do with what this seller is doing.

    This used to be a nice little hobby that was the playing field of gentle folks. Now it has become an entity in which some large sums of dollars change hands. When large sums of money come into play, sometimes the worst in people’s nature comes to the surface.

    The original post was about Astley’s pipes and the possibility that some of their lineages have been falsely stated. It does not matter if they are sold on E-Bay or on someone’s web site.

    So rather than waste time dumping on E-Bay, let’s stick to the matter at hand. Are these pipes being re worked and sold as something they were not to begin with? If so then send the information, on the items in question to the seller, and call them out on it publicly. Demand a response. Email the companies that have been named as sources for these pipes and demand they respond. They might not know, or they might.

    Remember the Astley’s trademark / brand name is owned by the seller in question. So legally he can stamp the name on anything he so chooses. The same as I as Briar Blues could, IF I bought a bunch of new un smoked pipes from some pipe factory. IF however I happen upon or buy some pipes with no name and say they were made by XY or Z and know they were not, that is fraud. IF I don’t know and say they “look” look XY & Z, that is then only my opinion and should be taken with a spoonful of salt. I am not an expert on pipes.

    Anyway, I have rambled on long enough. Again I apologize if anything above offends you. It is reality, from where I sit, as a seller, and collector.

    Regards
    BB

    Posted 5 years ago #
  60. pitchfork

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    As far as Rob Cooper ( coopersark ) and what was called his BS descriptions…. Well Rob sells for clients. His job is to get the maximum amount of dollars for his clients, as well as help himself with his fees. Does he offer sexy and exciting descriptions which enhance what he is selling? Damn rights he does.

    I'll respond at more length later, but I admire Rob's salesmanship and his way with words -- I think I pointed out, as you did, that he's very good at what was referred to tongue-in-cheek as "BS." No offense intended whatsoever. I bought a pipe from Rob just a few weeks ago -- ON EBAY. So, I apologise if it came across as a criticism.

    My point was to differentiate "BS" or sexy copy from dishonesty or fraud, and to draw a distinction between honest sellers like coopersark (and briar blues!) and the kinds of things being described in this thread. Hope this helps.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    waluljan

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    I asked the fellow, who found it out, for "material", because of the "wonky" proofs Maybe this brings some cloudlessness, the
    whole auction from a well known pipe seller "cologne-pipes" you can find here:

    http://astley.lima-city.de/astley/mo16.html

    The same pipe turned into an Astley's and sold, here:

    http://astley.lima-city.de/astley/astley16.html

    Or on eBay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-WM-ASHTON-TAYLOR-MADE-ASTLEY-SANDBLASTED-POT-SITTER-BRIAR-PIPE-MINT-NR-/400538604186?nma=true&si=94GiON7IoWdZAR%252FzhgPF6MEBBmE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    The deleted pictures are here:

    http://astley.lima-city.de/astley/astley16-1.JPG

    http://astley.lima-city.de/astley/astley16-2.JPG

    http://astley.lima-city.de/astley/astley16-3.JPG

    The counting in the names "mo16" and "astley16" makes me suppose, there is more. However. Maybe it helps

    ______

    Greetings Waluljan

    Posted 5 years ago #
  62. rebornbriar

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    When you slam E-Bay, you also suggest that some well known, and highly respected sellers are not honest.

    I'm entirely with you BB which is why I also came on to this thread initially. It is important to protect the integrity of the eBay system in general and for those who rely on it to make a living who are honest, dependable and professional sellers.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  63. rebornbriar

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    Here are the pipe pictures one above the other.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    waluljan

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    Remember the Astley’s trademark / brand name is owned by the seller in question. So legally he can stamp the name on anything he so chooses.

    By the way, the guy in the German forum, who got the ball rolling, argued the same way! The owner of the brand can stamp the name even on his tooth brush or
    toast. The owner has the exclusive power of defining, what Astley's is. But, extends this power into past? Can he subsequently make some junk from the past, what
    evidentially never was an Astley's pipe, into one? Does trademark law really let one that extensively rebrand the past? I guess no. Even if you buy the whole Milwaukee
    you can't buy bike wrecks and "rebrand" and sell them as vintage Harley-Davidson... But maybe I don't understand trademark law at all.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    pitch - I am not offended. I have 3 exes and each had a lawyer. What they called me has given me pretty thick skin. Your point is the same as mine. As far as honest seller such as Rob or me ( Thanks for the kind words ), but we can make mistakes. Check the International Peterson Collectors site and you'll find that I took a nice trouncing there, over a pipe. Things do slip through the cracks. Shit does happen and after the fact all we can do is apologize and try and make it right.

    reborn - as a seller it is important that we are careful how we tread, lest we damage ourselves along the way. It's much easier to damage a reputation than build a good one. As far as the "integrity" of E-Bay ........ give me a break. E-Bay doesn't give a rat's butt about this pipe or any other. As long as they get their pound of flesh in fees, they are happy. They do not care about shills, or any other under handed methods used, by either sellers or buyers. IF they cared there would be 100% ability to see who is bidding. There would be no way to make ones feedback private and invisible. So let's not talk about E-Bay and integrity.

    I am not doubting that something is "unsettling" about the pipe / pipes noted above. For us to go around clucking like a bunch of chickens does no one any good. If the item is bogus, do what needs to be done. Contact the seller. Show them all the evidence and wait for a reply. Or maybe many people should contact the seller and ask the question. It may do nothing, then again ...... IF I were to try and pull a fast one or some fast ones, and I started getting emails, it would let me know that my "fast ones" ain't so damn fast and I'd better be allot more aware or what I offer and how it is offered.

    This business has grown and the number of sellers has grown. However ....... the bad ones sure fall off the face of the earth pretty quickly, when caught with their fingers in the cookie jar. While it has grown, the market for pipes is tiny in the scheme of things. Word travels lightning fast. Plus it travels globally.

    This thread has about 60 posts, but I can guarantee you that it has been read by at least 10 times that number and only Kevin or the Mods may be able to offer an accurate read count. Maybe 1500 people have read it or double that. I know as I have received emails from people asking my thoughts that do not post here, that it has been read by a whole lot of people. No idea why they email me....... I'm no expert, nor do I have any additional info to add.

    My only advice to anyone buying a pipe, whether on E-Bay, a website, a B&M, or a private deal .... ask questions. If the answer is not sitting comfortably, walk away. If you get that crawling feeling.... walk away. It's your money. Spend it wisely. Do not let "pipe lust" cloud your judgment.

    Regards
    BB

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Exactly, what he is doing is pure LIES and is bad for the pipe re-seller business overall. I also am a re-seller of pipes, although not as accomplished as Mike(briarblues) or Alan(reborn briar). This is downright fraud and must be completely illegal. Mr. Ezrati must be known for the poor business practices he chooses to use, and he must be rightly punished and disallowed from continuing to undermine his customers, our hobby, and our business!

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    OMG, WALLS OF TEXT.

    Y'all talk 'way too much LOL.

    So rather than waste time dumping on E-Bay, let’s stick to the matter at hand.

    Exactly. Lets just not waste time on eBay. Best to deal with a restored estate vendor directly, look him in the God damned eye, and buy a pipe directly one on one.

    Sound like I am not a fan of eBay? Exactly. I know all you sellers LOVE the chance of making more money for your pipes on eBay but the reality of life is, I am not impressed.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  68. pitchfork

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    roth, all I could see of your post was this (screen name not showing):

    but I knew it was your post, lol.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Nice to be appreciated, Pitch.

    Thanks for reading

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    What if Mr. Ezrati showed up at a pipe show with 100s of Astley's claimed to be made by William Ashton Taylor or by Dunhill etc.? You wouldn't be able to tell they weren't what he said they were. Ebay is exactly the reason we can discover this fraud. And it is not all about making money for me. I do it for recreation, as a hobby, and make little money for the time and effort I put into the restoration. I only hope that someone out there is enjoying the pipes I restored, that they probably got at a great price.

    Posted 5 years ago #

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