Are Margate (Shag Ribbon) and Penzance (Cake) The Same?

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baccyfart

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 11, 2015
162
31
I had a bowl of penzance last night and it was quite the delicious and tasty treat. About a week ago, I had a bowl of margate. First puff of penzance and I was immediately reminded of margate, however the flavors I tasted from the cake penzance seemed denser and better mixed. Could it be that margate and penzance are actually the same blend, with the only exception being the format (shag vs. cake)? In order to answer this, I took my new 8 oz bag of margate to the cutting board and minced it up really well with my 8" chef's knife. I spritzed it very lightly with some RO water and put it in the plug box under about 5 tons of pressure (just a little shy of full pressure), and am going to leave it a week to see what I come up with. So folks, what say you? Are they the same blend, with the only difference being the preparation? I have plugged VaPers which are a loose ribbon only to be transported to a more even/solid taste profile as a plug. I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this...REALLY curious.
press2.jpg


 

mrenglish

Lifer
Dec 25, 2010
2,220
72
Columbus, Ohio
I think Penzance has more latakia than Margate, a lot more. Margate and Pembroke are essentially the same, just with the cognac added to the Pembroke.
That press is freaking awesome!!

 

baccyfart

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 11, 2015
162
31
mrenglish, thanks for the comment. I have found that the latakia in penzance sets behind the orientals and the english, unless I drive the bowl hard, and then the lat comes to the forefront. Margate shag cut, on the other hand, for me, has a distinct note of the latakia at all times. Maybe it's just my puffer palette that is different than yours, but I got just the opposite from you. I have read widely on the perception of latakia in each of these tobaccos, and the opinions are widely mixed, which would lead me to believe that they are either the same or similar. Penzance in no way seems like a lat bomb like others I have smoked.

 

baccyfart

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 11, 2015
162
31
maybe the pressed plug of margate will settle the lat down a bit and send it to the background. at least this is what i am hoping. i do believe, however, that penzance is lightly cased with mint or a very dilute water solution containing camphor. there is a faint hint of this which seems to open the senses up to the notes of fruit (plum or raisan?), cocoa and/or chocolate. i also get a note of port wine. anyone else getting these?

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,568
15,211
SE PA USA
Nice homemade press. Top notch!
My semi-educated guess says that you are on the right track with adding more moisture before pressing, but there is also a lot more casing/topping in Penzance. Also, 5T of pressure isn't sufficient, and you will have to add a binding agent of some sort, although not as much as you would find in Stonehaven. Penzance also has more Latakia...I haven't taken the time nor made the effort to determine any other leaf differences.
I also suspect that there may be some heat applied in the pressing process, and maybe some fermentation.
Triple Kudos on your initiative! Press on, driver!

 

baccyfart

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 11, 2015
162
31
then, maybe the silicone heat blanket will have to come out after all. picked one up a while back for another project (bending guitar side wood), and i have a controller which is accurate to within 5˚at any temp between 250˚ up to 500˚. any guess as to what temp and for how long?

 

jkrug

Lifer
Jan 23, 2015
2,867
8
I can't offer answers to any of your questions but I am following this thread with great interest. :)

 

escioe

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 31, 2013
702
4
I don't think so at all. I think Margate is more latakia and oriental heavy, whereas Penzance seems much more balanced. There's also discussion going back to the mid 90s about a trace of burley in Penzance, and I'm sure Margate has none of that.

 
Mar 30, 2014
2,853
78
wv
Nice press. I'm interested in seeing the results.
So which is it? Some say Penzance has more Lat while others say Margate has more Lat.
Either way, I'll have to try this Margate blend. I may be ostracized for saying this, but I've always thought the deified Penzance could use a little more Latakia.

 

beefeater33

Lifer
Apr 14, 2014
4,063
6,118
Central Ohio
Really? More Latakia in Margate than Penzance?

I've always thought they were the same, just the pressing of Penzance melds the flavors. I do get more Lat from Margate, more Orientals from Penzance. I think this is a case very similar to the two Smoker's Haven Blends, Our Best Blend and Krumble Kake-- those two ARE one in the same..........and both from Germain's.......... :roll:

 

mrenglish

Lifer
Dec 25, 2010
2,220
72
Columbus, Ohio
I am with woodsroad and will have to re-sample them. Its been awhile so maybe I need to readjust my thoughts as well.
beefeater, Premal told me the difference between Krumble Kake and Penzance is there is more VA in KK. I guess I feel there is a big difference between Margate and Our Best Blend. Didn't care much for OBB but love Margate. Its interesting how folks can have different reactions to the same tobaccos. This is part of why I find pipe tobaccos so interesting.

 

aristokles

Can't Leave
Jan 18, 2011
399
0
I do not think so either. In fact I am of the perhaps outrageous opinion that Penzance is close to heavily pressed and matured And So To Bed, turning it dark, and more flavorful. But then, I am kind of weird.

 

plugugly

Starting to Get Obsessed
Mar 9, 2015
280
32
Baccyfart, to me anyway, is like the great 19th century armature Olympic athletes. He's into blending "for the love of the game", and that's what makes watching his efforts so darn entertaining!

(and it really IS a darn impressive press)

Plugugly

 

uncleblackie

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 20, 2014
280
10
I've also considered the similarities between the two blends, and I think it's Blackpool.
After trying a bit of Blackpool, I'm convinced it at least makes up some portion of Margate. The Blackpool I had had a distinct appearance and I see similar bits in Margate. I taste its presence in Margate and Penzance.
I know Blackpool is supposed to have a licorice flavor, but I didn't get it. Not sure how to describe it but I didn't like it on its own.
I'm very interested to hear about the results of this experiment, and would certainly be interested in trying a sample :)

 

baccyfart

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 11, 2015
162
31
Most of you have probably seen this before, but it is worth noting:
Here is the real lowdown on the evolution of Penzance.

In about the early 1950's, the founder of Smokers' Haven had an idea for a revolutionary tobacco blend. It was going to be a full English that was cut, pressed and cut into slices. This way, you could rub it out with only one hand and fill your pipe. It was also so compressed that you could carry a weeks supply on you without a big bulge in your pocket. With the help of Sobranie to produce it for Smokers' Haven Krumble Kake was born as a blend and as a style of tobacco. A couple decades later, after the huge success of Krumble Kake in the USA, Sobranie replicated Krumble Kake with Bengal Slices and made it available to the world. The base recipe of Bengal Slices was changed after a couple of years. This was in the mid 1970's. In about the late 1970's when Sobranie closed its factory, the Krumble Kake recipe and all of the equipment to make it was transferred over to J. F. Germain & Son to produce for Smokers' Haven. In about 1984 after Joe Zieve sold Smokers' Haven to the second owner, Smokers' Haven lost the account with Germain due to financials. In 1987 my family acquired Smokers' Haven and we had no clue about the legendary Krumble Kake. A few years later, Steve Richman of Piedmont tobacconist contracted with J.F. Germain & Sons to replicate the old Smokers' Haven blends and hence, Esoterica was born including Penzance. Penzance is a little different in recipe but it is close to Krumble Kake. Steve decided wholesale tobacco supplying was not for him so he sold the Esoterica line to Michael Butera. In 2002 I approached Michael Butera to see if he would contact Germain to produce Krumble Kake for us. Michael got back to me a few weeks later, and said OK! Krumble Kake was back in stock starting in March of 2003 to about 2009. Since Butera sold his distribution of Esoterica, I have not been able to get Krumble Kake back yet. I am working on it still.

Margate is the base recipe for Penzance.

It is the closest to Penzance that may be found on the market at the moment. Mac Baren Latakia flake comes a little close but the burn is different.

Best Regards, Premal Chheda
So, a person very close to the business has stated that Margate is the base recipe for Penzance. What is different? Is it just the steam pressing or are there additional items to consider here?

 
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