An Elephant May Never Forget...

Everyone loves to go to the Circus & see the Elephants. I think it is a shame.

I love to see elephants. In there own habitat or a habitat supportive of their needs. I don't feel a circus is that environment and handling elephants requires a bit of a strong hand and some are woefully untrained.

A circus without elephants is like a Shriners' convention without hookers.
What's the point?

http://youtu.be/vDSNYWQ2BKg

Personally, and there is plenty of research to support this, I see elephants as intelligent creatures with their own emotions, identities and, in the wild, societies. Any animal (too many people like to deny that humans are animals) can be broken to the point of accepting imprisonment.

Even though another animal does not resemble you or speak a language you can understand, does not justify making decisions for it against it's own will.
I realize there are many who might find it easy and comforting to assume things and label me in one way or another for these views. I eat meat and I'm not what I would consider an environmentalist, but I think a lot of humanity's social problems stem from lack of respect for the welfare of the other animals we share this planet with... elephants, chickens, dogs, cats, cows...

Stepping off the soapbox. Thank you for your time.

I'm with Voorhees on this one. We have long known that Elephants are highly emotional and intelligent animals with serious social and care needs. It is not only improbable but outright impossible to properly care for such an animal while carting it from city to city to preform for people. Even the San Diego Zoo, one zoo I truly love and respect, does not have proper space and activities for these animals but they do a hell of a lot more than any circus is capable of and they are always trying to advance the animals habitats and ability to thrive. I worked with the zoo some while I was involved in a breeding program for some of the worlds rarest reptiles and I can tell you that even seemingly emotionless animal like a snake shows a marked difference in health and lifespan when it is in an ideal instead of passable environment. While B&B has made some good strides in their treatment of these animals it is simply impossible to give them a good life in such a scenario and I applaud their decision. I hope they continue there conservation work on behalf of the elephants. I am far from politically correct as I was raised hunting and fishing. I remember vividly though the time I shot what I thought was an empty nest out of the eaves of the barn with my bb gun. Discovering it was not empty my father instructed me to put the injured baby bird down and clean up the mess I had created. When you have power oven another life, even an animal life, how you treat that charge says a lot about you. I believe this extends to our society as well. I enjoyed the elephants at the circus when I was a child but knowing what I know now, I could not support it as humane let alone the way it should be. I dislike PETA a great deal but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Animals in custody of people, unless they are a companion animal that sleeps in the person's bed, tend not to have a good time. But I guess I would have to know what the alternative for the circus elephants is. If they are put out on a reserve where they end up being shot for ivory (probably only in Africa or Asia) that might not be better than living in the circus. One of the most forceful advocates for big cats opines that although the circus is a hard life, it poses challenges and provides activity that comes closer to life in the wild that having two acres in the zoo. I'm of the opinion that intellect and mind have emerged incrementally not in a burst with the arrival of humanity. Still, I'm not a vegetarian, and neither are my cats. But maybe surrendering the marvel of seeing a parade of elephants at the circus is worth it to show respect. Many other species pre-date us by a couple of million years and respect should be shown.

Mso, B&B actually have the largest elephant reserve in this part of the world. Now some claim they only did this to divert attention away from using the animals as performers but regardless, it is good work they are doing. That is where these animals will end up. (Please forgive my editing errors in the first post)

I enjoyed the elephants at the circus when I was a child but knowing what I know now, I could not support it as humane let alone the way it should be.

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I have to disagree here.

I grew up on a hog farm. We raised the pigs the most humane way we could, just to slaughter them in the end. Its OK.

Maybe not PC, but OK. The elephants in the circus are treated to clean water and food a plenty--- something their wild brethren are not privy to. Many of the wild elephants are SCROUNGING for food, and drinking water out of mudholes...The circus elephants are living like 'Movie stars"...... Is this really any different than when my neighbor makes his little terrier stand on his hind legs and beg for a treat? He thinks its cute, I'm indifferent, its just another animal trained to do something for a reward.... no harm no foul. I would wish my children and grandchildren get to see circus elephants perform... just my 2 cents..........

Beefeater, it's not political correctness that drives our opinions, at least my own, I'm sure. What does drive them, is an intuitive perception of how things should be. Some of the other mammals, are here with us on this Earth for companionship, some for food, and many more, whose purposes I admit I do not know. However, it seems clear to me that elephants, and quite probably, lions, tigers, and bears, are not here for simply the amusement of human beings. As for animals currently in the wild, who are surviving off depleting resources, I can only offer my own intuitive perception of which mammal is to blame for that calamity.
There is a deeper underlying problem here my friend, aside from circus elephants, that has been going on for quite some time now, and that is how man interacts with nature, as he is as much a part of "nature", as the trees, and the birds, and the creatures of the sea, and the sea itself, and yet continues in the seemingly endless exploitation and destruction of that nature which he is so intertwined with.

Jerod, in India they have been using elephants for work animals and transportation for centuries, much like we use horses, or oxen. They are treated like a beast of burden--- I'm not saying its right or wrong-- just that its odd that its ok to see the lipizzaner stallions perform, but its taboo to see a few elephants in a circus perform?? Really what is the difference? We can train a horse to do tricks and its cool, but when an elephant does it......... :crazy:
Don't get me wrong brother--- we as a population HAVE done a lot of damage to the natural world- I get that. But we can't go on blaming ourselves for the demise of everything, to everything there is a season..............

we share this planet with... elephants, chickens, dogs, cats, cows...

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My world has room for all animals great and small........ Right between the mashed potatoes and the green beans. :D

As a kid I recall being downtown with my Mother one sunny Saturday morning. Rounding a corner as we walked back to the car we came face-to-face with a full-grown elephant! It was quite startling, and absolutely the last thing which I expected to see. A traveling circus had come to town, and the company was marshaling a small parade to advertise the fact.
That encounter still remains fresh to me to this day. What a shame that others may not have the chance to experience that wonder for themselves.

"Even though another animal does not resemble you or speak a language you can understand, does not justify making decisions for it against it's own will."
Uncleblackie,
I agree with your thoughts. I would only change the above to read "against it's own good". Man will always use both wild & domesticated animals to his benefit but that does not negate his responsibility of good stewardship to such animals. As stated in the OP, circus animals should have been treated with respect & better living conditions beginning a long time ago.
Whenever I meet someone new in life high on my list of what I judge that person by is how they treat animals.

I'm with Matt on this. Spruce up their living conditions, but in the end they are animals. They deserve to be treated well, but not be above the roll they play in our lives.
They certainly could stay in the circus AND be treated as well or better than they are in Asia.
No question they are smart. How many animals have gangs besides the primates?
Elephant Thugs

Let me start off by saying my views are not PC at all, in fact i HATE PC altogether. I am very opinionated, but i am also very respectful to everyone on their own opinions as well, no matter how mundane or radical. I think humans are collectively the worst species that has ever inhabited this great and beautiful earth. Our unique ability of reason and logic have created many evils that have in some way or another affected every single organism on this planet. When i think of humans as a whole, a mass and a unified entity, i think of one word: GREED. Humans have the ability to show positive traits such as love, compassion and empathy, but the dark side or negative traits far outweigh the damage that is done to the earth as well as to each other.
I honestly do not see any way of fixing the overall issue when it comes to animals. Humans will continue to reproduce and the population will continue to grow, and in turn we will continue to greedily suck up more resources and build on more land to support the ever growing population with little to no regard for anything other than ourselves and our self preservation. Unless the human population declines or stops increasing, which are about the same as the chances of a pig flying through a blizzard in hell, natural habitats and areas of land devoid of human interference and exploitation of resources will continue to shrink. As a result, the wildlife populations will continue to shrink and there will be no more wild animals to imprison and force to entertain humans in the circus and in zoos or elsewhere, as they have been doing for thousands of years.
I am not an overly negative person and i love life and people, but i am a realist whose perception of reality is exactly what it is, not what i want it to be. I educate myself on the facts through research and the environment around me and form an opinion using logic and reason. That is one of the positive traits we humans are capable of doing. The opinion we form and how we manifest that opinion on our surroundings is where things can get dark and twisted.