Pipes Magazine » Pipe Tobacco Discussion

Search Forums  
   
Tags:   

Alcohol Beverage Aro's, Real Flavoring?

(35 posts)
  1. mso489

    mso489

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 25,575

    online

    Login to Send PM

    Okay, so the answers to this one are proprietary, so all we can do is guess. The question is, when aromatic pipe tobacco blends feature alcoholic beverages such as rum, whiskey, liqueurs, etc., as the aromatic flavoring component, are those products actually used, or is it something related, like byproduct of brewing or distilling, or are these flavors approximated through the miracles of chemistry, as is often true of fragrances? rrftr6, says the cat. What's your guess or surmise?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. okiebrad

    okiebrad

    Member
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 292

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I would think you get what you pay. I can imagine a value tobacco using a lesser flavoring. While a premium label using premium ingredients. I do know I really enjoy tobaccos that have the spirits as flavoring. Black Frigate, Prembroke, Cellar, and Sextant are some of my favorites.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. chasingembers

    Embers

    Captain Of The Black Frigate
    Joined: Nov 2014
    Posts: 15,182

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Black Frigate, Prembroke, Cellar, and Sextant

    I'll add Bothy Flake, Salty Dogs, Blockade Runner, Navigator, and Stave Aged. All with the real thing. Though the only aros in either list are Cellar and Pembroke.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 638

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Motzek (TAK) "Micha´s Cake" is also made with 15y old barbaidos rum.
    On the other hand I have blends like "Irish Whiskey" by Peterson, of which I'm sure hasn't seen the slightest whiff of real Whiskey and is just some sort of artificial malt/whiskey-flavouring - still it tastes very good, but just not like Whiskey would. So I would think you could distinguish he two ways of "alcohol-flavourings" in "real flavourings" (=using real liquour) and "artificial flavourings"

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 4,813

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Some manufacturers claim that 'genuine' rum, whiskey, sherry etc is used in some of their blends and those that make such claims likely do use some 'genuine' rum, whiskey etc but I'll wager it's a tiny amount just so as to make the statement legal. I reckon the bulk is actually chemical flavourings.

    Just my opinion of course

    Regards,

    Jay.

    ...take up thy stethoscope and walk...
    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. snowyowl

    snowyowl

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 897

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Solani 131 comes "with a touch of single malt Scotch Whiskey", and is reviewed favorably by JimInks and PipeStud.
    http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/1694/solani-131-red-label

    "If you see something... pipe up."
    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. alialansari

    Ali Alansari

    Junior Member
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 72

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Okay, so the answers to this one are proprietary, so all we can do is guess. The question is, when aromatic pipe tobacco blends feature alcoholic beverages such as rum, whiskey, liqueurs, etc., as the aromatic flavoring component, are those products actually used, or is it something related, like byproduct of brewing or distilling, or are these flavors approximated through the miracles of chemistry, as is often true of fragrances? rrftr6, says the cat. What's your guess or surmise?

    That would actually be a very useful statement to ascertain. Being a Muslim, I steer clear of any tobacco flavoured with alcoholic beverages. Whether it's the real deal or just flavouring, I can't take the risk. I did contact however a number of manufacturers that did confirm the use of genuine liquor when producing such blends. Such would be the case with C&D and by extension GL Pease.

    Check out this video (fast forward to 15:20) by Public Piper on his tour of C&D's factory. It clearly shows their use of alcoholic drinks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5jnNvwggkI&feature=youtu.be

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. yaddy306

    yaddy306

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 1,215

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Being a Muslim, I steer clear of any tobacco flavoured with alcoholic beverages.

    I thought tobacco itself was haram?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. weezell

    weezell

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 9,170

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "In view of the harm caused by tobacco, growing, trading in and smoking of tobacco are judged to be haram (forbidden). The Prophet, peace be upon him, is reported to have said, 'Do not harm yourselves or others.' Furthermore, tobacco is unwholesome, and God says in the Qur'an that the Prophet, peace be upon him, 'enjoins upon them that which is good and pure, and forbids them that which is unwholesome'" (Permanent Committee of Academic Research and Fatwa, Saudi Arabia).

    "the weez"...
    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 638

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I thought tobacco itself was haram?

    Don't worry...each Muslim decides for himself what he think is haram and whats helal and what not depending on his mood..! I know it, half of my family is turkish.. ok, but this is not the place for this topic!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. alialansari

    Ali Alansari

    Junior Member
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 72

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I thought tobacco itself was haram?

    "In view of the harm caused by tobacco, growing, trading in and smoking of tobacco are judged to be haram (forbidden). The Prophet, peace be upon him, is reported to have said, 'Do not harm yourselves or others.' Furthermore, tobacco is unwholesome, and God says in the Qur'an that the Prophet, peace be upon him, 'enjoins upon them that which is good and pure, and forbids them that which is unwholesome'" (Permanent Committee of Academic Research and Fatwa, Saudi Arabia).

    It is perhaps worth mentioning that the use of tobacco has created a debate among scholars that lasts to this day. Being a phenomenon that surfaced after the death of the Prophet PBUH (Prophet dies in 7th century AD and tobacco emerges in late 15th century AD), there is no definitive ruling on the matter. However, the main reason stated by Islamic scholars with regard to the forbbidance of tobacco is that it harms the body. And anything that causes damage to one is prohibited.

    That however is subject to further pondering. In that same mindset, one can also assume that eating unhealthy foods is haram given that doing so has a direct negative effect on one's physiology (obesity, heart disease, diabetes, ...etc). However, junk food isn't restricted at all. As such, it all comes down to how you make use of things and for what purpose. For instance, I smoke a pipe in order to relax and enjoy the taste of tobacco, which benefits my body more than harming it. And the proof lies in the fact that I can stop smoking for months without desperately needing a dose of nicotine, and that I never forcefully smoke when sick or slightly under the weather. Smoking therefore rids me of stress, puts me in a good mood and brings me sheer joy. All of which contribute to prolongating my life.

    Some things, on the other hand, are unarguably prohibited for being either detrimental to your health or causing more damage than good. Drugs is an example of the former and alcohol of the latter. The Quran actually states that alcohol has many benefits. However, its drawbacks far exceed its advantages.

    I hope that can afford a clear explanation.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. chasingembers

    Embers

    Captain Of The Black Frigate
    Joined: Nov 2014
    Posts: 15,182

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Tobacco use goes back much, much further than that.

    http://westerndigs.org/ice-age-hunting-camp-replete-with-bird-bones-and-tobacco-found-in-utah-desert/

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. alialansari

    Ali Alansari

    Junior Member
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 72

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Don't worry...each Muslim decides for himself what he think is haram and whats helal and what not depending on his mood..! I know it, half of my family is turkish.. ok, but this is not the place for this topic!

    Dear Deniz, that might be the case in your family. However I can assure you that the rest of us are very careful to adhere to the teachings of the Quran the Prophet PBUH. In religion there isn't room for whim.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. alialansari

    Ali Alansari

    Junior Member
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 72

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Tobacco use goes back much, much further than that.

    I meant its advent in Europe and the rest of the world. Of course tobacco has been used in the Americas for as long as you mention. But then again, at the time of the prophet, the continent was yet to be discovered.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. anthonyrosenthal74

    anthonyrosenthal74

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2013
    Posts: 7,439

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I've been using Captain Morgan Black in my blending at home with very nice results. A very dark rum, it adds some wonderful flavor to unflavored black cavendish. I also have a bottle of Captain Morgan Special Reserve that I've been tempted to try as well, but I've been stingy with it and refuse to share it with my tobacco

    Arrrrr, shiver me timbers! International Talk Like a Pirate Day is September the 19th!!!
    Brothers Of The Black Frigate
    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. chasingembers

    Embers

    Captain Of The Black Frigate
    Joined: Nov 2014
    Posts: 15,182

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    But then again, at the time of the prophet, the continent was yet to be discovered.

    Indeed.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Alcohol Beverage Aro's, Real Flavoring?

    Nice question MSO, another question is "Alcohol Beverages, Real Flavoring?". We live in a world in which almost everything is artificial including food, fruit juices, tobacco and even human relations. Manufacturing a fruit juice that has been pasteurized, thermized, sterilized and flavor added has more shelf life thus more cost effective. I totally agree with the idea of "you get what you pay for" as it is stated above. So let's say there are 3 different blends by different brands and all 3 have the same ingredient, rum for instance.

    X blend costs $1 per oz
    Y blend costs $2 per oz
    Z blend costs $3 per oz

    We can assume that X used artificial rum flavoring, Y used real rum with an artificial flavoring and Z used all natural rum. Is that certain? Nope. I mean we live in a world that right now some Chinese is producing fake rice or fake egg out of plastic. Fake egg goddammit. If you show it to a chicken, she will applause with her wings for sure. And then a cigar brand named Gurkha will offer you box of cigars for $15 000 because they are manufactured with 18 years old tobacco dipped into a rare Louis XIII Cognac ($2 400 a bottle) and someone will say that Gurkha cigars smoke like the burnt hair from a donkey's ball sack. Weird world. I wish everything was as simple as it was few decades ago.

    And here are some flavoring agents:

    Chemical - Odor
    Diacetyl - Buttery
    Isoamyl acetate - Banana
    Cinnamic aldehyde - Cinnamon
    Ethyl propionate - Fruity
    Limonene - Orange
    Ethyl-(E, Z)-2,4-decadienoate - Pear
    Allyl hexanoate - Pineapple
    Ethyl maltol - Sugar, Cotton candy
    Methyl salicylate - Wintergreen
    Benzaldehyde - Bitter almond

    Javan
    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    During my high school years, me as a non religious person was having a hot discussion with some other guys who were claiming that smoking cigarettes were not haram. Then one of the guys pointed out someone and said "Look, here comes the akhoond (title for an Islamic cleric) of the local mosque, we can ask him." While approaching us, he took a very long and deep puff from his cigarette, inhaled the smoked, flicked the cigarette and exhaled while saying "Hey guys, what's up?". This cleric said the exact thing that Ali said above, in some way tried to prove his addiction.

    You can smoke a pipe or a cigarette, you can even jump off a cliff, do I care? No. Do I have any rights to judge you? Not unless your action somehow affects my life or lifestyle or health. I just don't understand the way Muslims try to prove themselves. Smoke the pipe my brother, eat the bacon, I don't care, you are the one responsible for yourself, you will be the one going to the Hell according to your own beliefs. Just don't do that "proving yourself right" thing. Smoking tobacco is HARAM in Islam. Especially if it is pleasing. If you are listening to a music or looking at a painting and having pleasure, it is haram. Someone will come and say "No, it is not the real Islam." It is my friend. If tobacco is harmful to your body and at the same time it is pleasing, then it is double haram (there is no such term as double haram, I am just trying to say that it is haram from all aspects).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 638

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    jvnshr said it very well! +1 on that!

    Funny thing is: As I'm reading this thread I'm smoking some Peterson´s Irish Whiskey (now Irish Mixture) and I'm curious if this tobacco has seen any real whiskey. I highly doubt it, as it doesnt smell, nor taste like drinking whiskey. There's just a malty and spicy (almost rum-like spice) tone to it. Anyone knows for sure?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. alialansari

    Ali Alansari

    Junior Member
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 72

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Just don't do that "proving yourself right" thing

    I just call it as I see it. Religion, has its grey areas, whether it be tobacco consumption or listening to music. That is why there are different schools of teaching. The prohibition of tobacco was promulgated by certain scholars with a specific argument which can be disproved by others. As previously stated, there is no clear ruling on the matter. Furthermore, there lies no shame in explaining one's beliefs.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Funny thing is: As I'm reading this thread I'm smoking some Peterson´s Irish Whiskey (now Irish Mixture) and I'm curious if this tobacco has seen any real whiskey. I highly doubt it, as it doesnt smell, nor taste like drinking whiskey. There's just a malty and spicy (almost rum-like spice) tone to it. Anyone knows for sure?

    Deniz, according to the website of The Danish Health Authority (learned the website from our forum member woodsroad some time ago) Peterson's Irish Whiskey has sugar cane syrup, propylene glycol, glycerol, potassium citrate and flavor.

    LINK ( Page 8 )

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. lightmybriar

    lightmybriar

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 559

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Thanks for the interesting topic and information, and another thanks to the people here discussing smoking in Islam. I enjoy studying the religions of others, and being someone who is very devoted to a religious code myself, a find the subject fascinating. I don't know how allowing this forum is for such discussion as it can very easily get heated should one or both parties lose their cool, but it's always nice to gain a better understanding of other peoples' views and ways of life.

    On a pipe adventure
    Steve
    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Ali, first of all let me thank you for your patience and I totally praise your debate skills. Most of the Muslims would have sworn at me and threatened me by now.

    Religion, has its grey areas

    Grey areas, that's where the problem starts from and different schools of teaching and cults and wars and ...

    Furthermore, there lies no shame in explaining one's beliefs.

    Nobody has the right to judge you based on your beliefs. However if we are discussing an issue I try to find the logic behind your ideas. If you just say that it's your religion and you have to act accordingly, I will pass and continue talking about ideal moisture of the blends or packing methods on other threads. If you try to convince me or someone that something forbidden in your religion is forbidden just because of its harm, sorry but I have to jump in.

    The Quran actually states that alcohol has many benefits. However, its drawbacks far exceed its advantages.

    From a scientific point, that's not true. Alcohol, if consumed moderately will relax you and put you in a good mood and won't have more harm than tobacco. So does that make it halal? Alcohol was not prohibited because it was harmful, but because people were drinking and going to the mosque and interrupting the speeches of Prophet Muhammed and their smell was disturbing others. If it was thought to be harmful, it should have been prohibited in the 1st year of Islam not later.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. lightmybriar

    lightmybriar

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 559

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Perhaps since the discussion of Haram / Halal tobacco use is not quite to the point of this post, if the parties wished to continue, a new thread could be started, if that's within the rules? I'm really enjoying reading along regarding alcohol flavorings and the religious discussion, and would hate to see the thread close, discontinuing both topics.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I don't know how allowing this forum is for such discussion as it can very easily get heated should one or both parties lose their cool, but it's always nice to gain a better understanding of other peoples' views and ways of life.

    If I see someone losing the control (including myself), I will disappear as fast as the Road Runner.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. alialansari

    Ali Alansari

    Junior Member
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 72

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I think I speak on behalf of everyone in saying that we have deviated from the intended topic of discussion. In order to remain well within the scope of the subject in hand and the forum rules, I propose that we cease posting any religiously oriented messages and stick to the thread's main theme. We may eventually reprise, with the permission of the forum's administrators, the subject of tobacco consumption in religion in a separate thread.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Perhaps since the discussion of Haram / Halal tobacco use is not quite to the point of this post, if the parties wished to continue, a new thread could be started, if that's within the rules? I'm really enjoying reading along regarding alcohol flavorings and the religious discussion, and would hate to see the thread close, discontinuing both topics.

    I hope everyone, mainly MSO, can forgive me for stealing the thread. People here have already seen that I never get into hot debates or political discussions and I checked the forum rules before making any comments regarding the religion. We can move the issue to another thread for sure, only if you open a new thread LMB

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. mso489

    mso489

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 25,575

    online

    Login to Send PM

    No problem, jv'. These threads go where they go. There ain't no drum majors on Forums.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. yaddy306

    yaddy306

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 1,215

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I suspect that extracts are used for the bulk of rum/whisky flavourings, as they are more effective at flavouring the tobacco (only the stable flavour components are added, rather than the water that comprises ~60% of real booze).

    The manufacturers who claim to use real booze likely do, but I'm guessing it's in addition to extracts. Like mawnan says, just to stay "legal".

    But even extracts use alcohol as a carrier of the flavour, so avoiding "natural" flavourings for religious reasons won't keep you away from alcohol necessarily.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    No problem, jv'. These threads go where they go. There ain't no drum majors on Forums.

    Thank you very much for your understanding MSO.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  31. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 638

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    jvnshr

    Deniz, according to the website of The Danish Health Authority (learned the website from our forum member woodsroad some time ago) Peterson's Irish Whiskey has sugar cane syrup, propylene glycol, glycerol, potassium citrate and flavor.

    LINK ( Page 8 )

    Wow, I diddn't knew such a list existed! Now thats the kind of transparency I'd expect - no..DEMAND about a product I consume in any way. Still...descriptions like "Flavour" are meaningless, when they don't mentio which flavours they used.

    Sadly, there aren't too much blends listed on this Link, is there another one, or more?
    Thank you for the Link, really appreciate it!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  32. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 638

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I've found a few more of these lists:

    Link 1 (excel file)

    Link 2 (excel file)

    Link 3 (pdf file)

    Link 4 (ashx file(?), can be opened in the browser anyways

    Link 5 (pdf File)

    I found them all with searching for "licorice comet blok" on google (it was one of the ingridients of a blend)

    THIS could also be interesting.

    If you guys know any more, please post them, this is a revelation to me...all my favorite blends that I assumed were not flavoured are...and a few hold "gummi arabicum" ...why would they add this? This is the kind of gum RYO papers are made from. Holy moly...I'll have to grow and blend my own tobacco, this plastic world makes me sick!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  33. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Deniz, you are welcome.

    That website has lots of information. Just type "tobacco" in the search box. This will give you few hundred results, then using the links you can check the ingredients of pipe tobacco blends, cigars, cigarettes, etc.

    and a few hold "gummi arabicum" ...why would they add this?

    According to our lovely forum member woodsroad:

    Gum Arabic is an adhesive/binder. It glues the layers of tobacco leaf together to form a solid block that can then be sliced thin without falling apart.

    The issue was discussed here:

    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/whats-americas-most-popular-us-made-straight-va-flake

    Posted 2 years ago #
  34. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 638

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    thanks jvnshr for the excellent informations!
    Any way to find out what "flavourings" and "aromas (various)" could be standing for? Are the used flavourings known? All I know food proof flavours should be used, but they don't liste which ones. It would be interesting what's in some blends like Connells Scottish Cake, as I'm sure it has something orangy/tangerine/Citrusy in it, that's not coming from the tobacco!
    A lot of blends hold licorice extract, powdered those are the additives I'm pretty cool with. I also see there has to be some glue for some of the cuts like flakes f.e. (btw. how did the old sailors "back in the days" do it? did they also make their flakes with gummi arabic, did they have it already?). And I really appreciate the transparency they show there.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  35. jvnshr

    jvnshr

    Mod
    Joined: Sep 2015
    Posts: 4,007

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    thanks jvnshr for the excellent informations!

    You are welcome.

    All I know food proof flavours should be used

    Smoking something is totally different than eating it. An edible thing can cause harm when smoked.

    And I love Scottish Cake

    Posted 2 years ago #

Reply

You must log in to post.

 

 

    Back To Top  | Back to Forum Home Page

   Members Online Now
   cigrmaster, pipebaum81, jpmcwjr, davet, lightxmyfire, ashdigger, alaskanpiper, jfred, mso489, tbradsim1, cossackjack, workman