Aging in Tins

If you are talking about the square or rectangle or round vacuum sealed tins then I would store them as is, which is what I do. I keep them in a dark place with a constant temperature. I have tins from as far back as 1997 and they are fine when I open them. If you are talking about the tins with the plastic tops from Pease and C&D and those type then I would jar them after 5 years or so. I had some from 2002 go bad.

was wondering about this myself. thanks for asking and thanks for the answers guys

I've had the occasional tin of Pembroke lose its seal. I new immediately which one it was as I could smell the cognac. The rectangular Penzance type tins also lose their seal. Had a bunch of Kingfisher I discovered just in time, I could pull the lids of with no effort. Was able to jar them up so no worse for wear. They were all between 10-15 years old.

I was hoping it was perfectly normal....i keep all my tins in a very large rubbermaid tub, everytime I open it I can smell my nightcap. I was also thinking of taking Brian's advice on the last radio show and wrapping each tin in heavy cellophane.

I think Brian Levine's suggestion is, like most things he says, idiotic.

If you can smell the contents of a tin, then obviously the seal is broken -- get it into a jar.

Do not trust cellophane, plastic, polyvinyl, rubber, or any other non-glass material.

Those polymers are principally designed to retain moisture, but organic volatiles and esters can

"walk" right through them in time.

Those polymers are principally designed to retain moisture, but organic volatiles and esters can

"walk" right through them in time.

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This is true. You have to remember that we are trying for an isolated environment for tobacco aging and the 02 permeability of most plastics, especially flexible ones, does not work with that. Even the long-term permeability of HDPE is not necessarily good for tobacco aging. Stick to glass, sealed with wax if you are worried, for a good seal when aging.

curious if one could seal the edges of one's tins with wax to either prevent the seal from breaking, or to indicate that the seal has broken on its own. similar to the function if torque seal. just from making wine (and anyone who has made beer as well) I have learned that Fermentation (which i'm assuming is what occurs during aging) also produces carbon dioxide which inevitably will break the seal if the pressure in the container becomes too great

Good thought metal. The only issue might be that the tobacco's "fermentation" should actually create a stronger vacuum. When the seal breaks, I'm assuming it's because of either a temperature swing or a critical failure of the seal material. The wax around the seal still might be a good idea though. Either that or steal the idea from Peck and Harris to put suspect tins into a jar for long-term storage.

You'd have to use proper sealing wax and not any old candle wax and depending on your jars it may be tricky to apply. You'd have to heat the wax, dip the jar so top and seal was covered then to save wax and money quickly scrape the excess of the top of the jar.
Tins would be a little bit trickier.

cortez,

I think Brian Levine's suggestion is, like most things he says, idiotic.

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You crack me up. I never heard that he wraps his tins in plastic, sounds like a complete waste of time.
I have never had a metal rectangle, square or round tin lose it's seal on me. My house never has any dramatic temperature or humidity changes and once I place a tin in it's resting place, it never gets touched unless I am going to open it. I had half a dozen Penzance tins from 02 that I had sold for me last year and all were perfect. I think the biggest reason a tin can lose it's seal are dramatic environmental changes, or people playing with their tins. Laying your tins on the bed and rolling around naked in them, is really not good for them guys.

Laying your tins on the bed and rolling around naked in them, is really not good for them guys.
CRAP

I have to admit Harris that I do run a length of packing tape around the square and rectangular tins. Not really sure it will make a difference but it makes me feel better. I do have faith in the circular tins. But of course anything in a rolled tin goes into a mason jar, way too many fails on this modern system. I've had two myself and no where near the cellar of many of you guys. Don't want to mention names but one was at the bottom crimp and the other half way up at a seam. Both had no outward damage. Now larger tins that are single pressed I feel confident about.
Craig

*#$& Roth! I've had the pleasure of meeting some modern day writers, lots of Rock Stars and a handful of Hollyweeds. But Asimov (spelling Roth) is one of the writers I devoured during my early years when it was three to five books a week. Well the word of a rock star bio-chemist on our side is good enough for me. My daughter who's a bio-chemist is doing my experiments on ageing VA as you know .
I'm so jealous right now...
Back on track. I'm not sure what the cost for companies like Pease or H&H to sell their blends in single pressed tins, but that's a price that would be passed on. Russ's mission statement for H&H is to bring the best quality blends at the most affordable price. That being said, I would rather be getting the product in whatever container is cheapest because it's going into a jar anyways.
It only makes sense that companies are rushing blends to varying degrees to meet the frenzy buying that's going on. Whether it's the golden years or impending government actions, VA is defiantly coming out "green". Personally I feel that H&H AK is outstanding, but one year old is sublime. The same with MC 2015, H&H LR and Escudo. After enjoying a few 2oz. tins on Haddo's Delight getting that 16oz. tin the other day will now give me a chance to put a few jars away for a year expecting a major change. On a side note, lifting that pound of HD out of the box was a "yes" moment. Some other Pease blends I've opened, after one bowl were put right into jars for a year. Most of my rotation is at least one year jarred, I plan and cellar to keep it that way.

Well I have 3 tins of Nightcap....the only Latakia blend in my rubbermaid....guess im gonna have to play a game of removing one at a time and checking the smell factor weekly to find out which has popped.....damn...

You got me I do hack and slash type, and depend too much on Word dropdowns which I just click on one, sometimes not remembering what the hell I was saying in the sentence. I have the Hobbit playing on one monitor and a couple chat boxes going on this one. I jump back and forth between chats and finishing a post. I should pay more attention because your always calling me out on it I'll defiantly definitely try to pay more attention :worship:
But you missed a big one there, one of the greats :nana:
I do think that science will start to put facts to the crap shoot of ageing. Especially where VA is concerned.
Craig

Back in the days of the tall, steel tins I used to use, there were some occasional issues. They had nothing to do with failure of the seal, resulting, instead, from tiny perforations forming from rust on the seams. It was a problem with the manufacture of the tins. Though they were supposedly coated, some tins apparently were coated unevenly, hence the failure. The newer flat tins have been wonderfully stable, and I've not experienced any sort of failure with their seals or the integrity of the tin itself.

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Vacuum sealed tins with press-fit lids are more problematic. The seals can fail from temperature fluctuations, from pressure changes, or from being handled roughly. The older quarter-threaded tins that were vacuum and heat sealed were much better, but I don't think anyone is using them today.

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Since I design most of my blends with aging in mind, it would be pretty short-sighted to package them in tins that didn't hold up. Though I personally preferred the aspect ratio of the taller 2oz tins, the inconsistency in their manufacture forced the change, and I've been very happy with the result.

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-glp

If I recall correctly, I believe Brian Levine's saran wrap suggestion was not based on the idea that the saran wrap itself would provide a back-up seal, but rather that the pressure of a tight wrap might mitigate the effects of an otherwise failed seal.

Greg, thanks for taking the time to explain this. I remember seeing little rust spots on some of my 2002 tins, now it makes sense. I will not bother jarring any of my 35 tins of Navigator now that you have guaranteed( with your life ) they will be good for 20 years plus, I was not looking forward to that.

By the way, the cost difference between the single-press tins and any other tin is insignificant when compared with the labor costs involved in the packaging. Being a small operation, we do not have the luxury of automated tinning. That's something only available at the mass-product level with companies like MacBaren and Orlik. A few cents of incremental cost being passed on to the consumer for a better package is, to my mind, money well spent. I've got ten year old examples of my products in the flat tins with no signs of seal compromise. We put the things through their paces before switching, and have been using them since either late 2004 or 2005 with no reports of failure.