A sad state of affairs...

Very interesting and sadly ironic.

"Public" smoking is all but extinct in North America.

Here in Missouri, you cannot smoke on the grounds of a hospital or on a college campus -- and that ban extends to your car on these properties.
In fact, about the only time I see people smoking in public anymore is when they're in their cars.
The last time I saw another pipe smoker in public (quite a rarity in these time) was a few weeks ago in the parking lot of a supermarket. He was in his car looking for a parking space.
The once gentle and pastoral image of a proper gentleman enjoying a pipe on a park bench is probably just a distant memory now, banished to the past by an anti-smoking ordinance.

There are two types of "Pipe" dealers... One that caters to real pipe smokers who indulge in a aventure of a lifetime of exotic tobbacos and travel Earth to find them and the Other kind which are head shops selling tools to get you to another planet and dimenention.

Well, it does come down to arguing for one side or the other, I'm afraid. They argue pretty good.

It all comes back to how much crap citizens are willing to put up with. If you let a few zelots have their way, you can bet you're going to have to give something up. In this case, your right to smoke at all. Oh, it's comming. Just a matter of time.

You will always have the element that have a worm's eye view of things, and those with a birds eye view.

Those looking from the bottom up can't see what harm it will do to leagalize marijuana. They don't see how marijuana reduces ones ability to take any moral stand. If it feels good, then brother, it MUST be good! Or how it can become phycologically addictive. Or the pain it's causing other people who have to tolerate drug lords.

And at the same time you have the do gooders trying to eliminate anything that is traditional, be it beliefs about culutures, family, smoking, whatever. They see their chance to eliminate another "old fashioned and outdated" tradition. They really think they are doing some good.

These are of course my opinions, and you know what they say about those. But at the same time, it does seems like things are running ass backwards.

All a matter of how much you want to devote to fighting for what you believe in. They seem to have done a good job. So far. Of course it's always easy to tear something down. A shame that it also follows that the rights you loose in the process are extremely hard to get back again. If ever.

Hey mate, this is what I've been complaining about in my town since I moved here. In Amarillo, Tx I had THREE -fine- tobacconists. Really top-notch stores. One was for cigarettes and had as varied a selection of FINE (key word) tobaccos for fags as any pipe store could be expected. The other two, one was a men's club 50/50 pipes and cigars, crummy pipe selection but all cheap and serviceable pipes -- but with a great selection. Cheap cigars, and stored in a walk-in (bad) but perfectly serviceable and a nice place to hang-out as it had a lounge. The second was pretty much the same but with -much- more expensive (better?) cigars, and the humidor was -not- walk-in.
then I moved to the DFW. In Denton alone there are 14 "Head Shop"s, ust that I know of an have been to. These all sell the same thing -- pot paraphernalia. I've also been banned from all but one of them because I deemed it appropriate to put signs that say "We sell pipes for POT not TOBACCO" on their windows. . .. The one that I'm not banned from I spoke to the owner at length on the matter, and he apologized stating simply that if I wanted anything ordered he would try to get it -- but pot crap is the only steady market in America apart form food and oil. So he supplies me with cigarette tobacco. ...
Anyone ever tried using any of that pot stuff on tobacco? You know the crap is legal because they can't define what makes it paraphernalia (which might be another reason they hate tobacco being legal, many don't see a difference between the two) but what has always struck me as an awe-inspiring over-sight. . . why not just have a panel of pipe-smokers try every pipe put on the market for "tobacco" use? If 10 out of 10 pipe smokers say they'd rather smoke oregano out of a straw hat than touch that "tobacco pipe". . . then it -isn't- a tobacco pipe.
I wish one could just ban glass pipes with carborators. . .but I worry that I'm failing to spot a real tobacco pipe that would incidentally ban. Hookahs you really can't ban as not being useful for anything but pot, I have 3 hookahs and pot has never touched one of them (don't think you even could smoke pot as-is in them, at least not properly).
As for the legality of pot itself. All I have to say on the matter is this. . . Pot makes you okay with being bored, and it makes you stupid for the duration of its (short-lived) affect. This in itself isn't a huge problem, in severe moderation. . . being bored is fine every one in a while, but much like the PC and TV too much time can be whiled away doing nothing, and no drive to do something will correct this -- eventually leading to a lasting decrease in intelligence (there is some merit to the argument dead brain cells add up and increase this, but for the most part...no) due to lack of new information -and- lack of use of what one already has. The roundabout way it causes people to -become- stupid, is a real problem. Of course most who smoke pot enough for it to be a problem rather than an occasional passtime are already lazy and stupid, pot makes it easier not to correct this problem.
Basically, as with (almost) anything pot is pretty much okay in moderation -- in this case severe moderation . . . and its lasting effects on those who either can't, or refuse to be responsible are actually less severe than for instance alcohol. Frankly if I were the omnipotent ruler of the world I would make sure neither ever existed again. But in America, here in the real world, the existing laws of the land suggest to me that it isn't morally correct (based on the agreed upon morals of the U.S. Constitution -- I.E. the Americanized Ten Commandments) to ban anything that is not 100% and absolutely -dangerous- to the public. Of the big 3 (tobacco, alcohol and pot) only alcohol is actually -dangerous-, and the only one that can easily result in an immediate death, of the user or the persons around the user. A staggering number of murders, car accidents, cases of abuse, and on and on in this fashion stem from someone being drunk off their arse. And even alcohol is perfectly harmless if you use it in moderation.
I'm not saying alcohol should be illegal (although I wish it hadn't been invented), but rather than anything less dangerous than alcohol should be legal...because alcohol is.
Hell anything less dangerous than over-the-counter meds should be legal come to think, and some of those can kill you even used as directed.... most can/will kill you/make you wish they had when abused.

In my opinion,.....an over-abundance of nannys and their attorneys...and cowards.

If you have not already been there, Fairhaven Smoke Shop in Bellingham is well worth a visit. http://www.fairhavensmokes.com/ Mike, the owner is a nice, low key, young fellow.
If I can come up from Bellingham every month for a meeting of the Vancouver Pipe Club, you can come on down to one of the few real pipe shops around. They have a large selection of both bulk and tinned tobacco and a decent selection of new and estate pipes as well as lots of cigars. It is about an hour's drive from downtown Vancouver (if there is not a long wait at the border).

Hooka smoking is all the rage now---You got flavored sheeshas on the market and there are hooka lounges all over the place now...Funny though some dont allow my pipe in...

I've mentioned this before in other threads, but it's a rant that I think deserves to be repeated. It really galls me that smoking tobacco in a stadium is illegal, yet pre-game and half-time activities feature spectacular low level fireworks displays that fill the entire stadium with smoke. I have actually seen smoke so thick that high level and long-shot cameras were rendered useless. Worse, nobody seems concerned about the smoky residue of perchlorates and metal-rich volatiles that create color effects; yet light one cigarette and you'll be ejected from your $150.00 seat. The football play-offs and the Superbowl are coming up soon. Watch and see if it doesn't occur just the way I described it.

Yoru has a whole bunch of very valid points. And as to how we got where we are Kevin and Tommy ,here's a part of the story. The U.S. government helps fund The American Cancer Society, a BIG gun in the anti-smoker lobby. The American Cancer Society is also one of a handfull of charities that pay their CEO more than $500,000 a year. Yup, I didn't add any zeros there! Actually it's $685,000 a year. The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids -- $233,000 for their CEO. The American Heart Association, well, the former CEO was in at $1,089,000 a year - but they corrected that. They probably thought it looked kinda bad, maybe. Anyway, full disclosure, the only one I know gets YOUR tax dollats to take away YOUR freedoms is the cancer society, but I don't have all day to research this post either. Anyway, you got to admit, doing well by doing good there, boys. These guys are doing VERY well indeed! (salary info from, charitynavigator.org)

I just sit here wondering "how could this be? how did this happen?"

Click to expand...

You are not alone, obviously. The fact is that the law is framed by lawyers, and it keeps lawyers in business. It's a litigious society because so much money can be made off of the shifting of responsibility. And even if you're not a smoker, it will be something else very soon--and there really is no end in sight.

I forgot hookah lounges, one of them kicked me out for lighting a cigarette, banned from that place too. The other was cool with it though, even let me nip over next door to buy a pack when I ran out -- which seems like a bad idea really. You don't pay until you leave, I offered to leave my wallet (less the money needed to buy the cigarettes) and they said not to worry it. . . I know a lot of people that would have just walked out on that 40 dollar ticket I'd racked up over the course of 7 hours.
I used to be bothered that you can't get hookah tobacco anymore. . . but shisha -- which is basically just sugar. . . has started to grow on me despite missing that certain something I enjoy in tobacco products. . . like when you forget the bitters in a particular recipe.

Agreed romeo, remember the woman several years ago who sued McDonald's because she burned her crotch with coffee while driving down the road after leaving the drive thru and she wound up winning a multi-million dollar lawsuit. All because they did not have the "Caution: The beverage you are about to drink is very hot" warning on the container. Which is now why every coffee shop has that printed on all their cups.

GODDAMN LAWYERS!

If it weren't for them everything ever would be at least somewhat better.

I am a bit bullheaded at times. I'm patient, but when you exceed my patience through extraordinary stupidity or dishonor. . . then I do something I must face the consequences for.
Or in the cases of the hookah lounge, it didn't even occur to me it would be an issue and that one was just a bunch of hippies overreacting to a cigarette. Seriously, this bloody town (which like 60% of the population is a university student) is full of hippies. . . bellowing about the cruelty of the world with a joint in one hand and their &&$@ in the other.
I stand by my old complaint that -many- hippie jam-fests or rallies have occured on the day those self-righteous hypocrites should have been at the polls, voting like responsible adults if they meant a damned word they'd said.
I mean really now, is there anything more selfish than sitting around, talking, getting high, and listening to music while calling everyone else Ikemen? Hell no.
If you have a problem, do something about it. Sit down with reasonable, respectable persons and discuss what you plan on doing -- and then DO it. Write your congressmen (which doesn't do anything), do a petition if you must (same problem), go vote (if enough of us would actually do it it would help. . .in theory, never been done so can't be sure) --- and at the end of the day, sit down with some good friends after you've actually tried by the laws and customs of the land to attend to the matter -- then and ONLY then -- you have the right to wile away a few hours in a misty-eyed reverie. . . together building the world you would like to see, or wading through the issues of the present one, looking for something to fix.
But above all, be looking for something you can actually DO, rather than blaming the people already doing something without advising them to something practical to do instead.
Have you ever finished talking and wonder at how many words it takes to express a singular feeling? Something that in the mind is nothing more than a flash of expression, wordless and soundless. . . takes so long to put out there in an intelligeable way. And even then, falls so far from the gravitas and depth of field the view itself covered in the mind.

Hi shmitzbitz,
Im in Vancouver too. Very cool to see a local pipe smoker here at the site. I was looking into the vancouver pipe club website. not sure if i can make it to a meeting yet, but it looked interesting. Wouldnt it be nice to be able to smoke the pipe at stanely park? too bad...

Leave the poor pot smokers alone. Their rights are even more infringed upon than ours. I feel well served if I walk into a head shop,and can be directed to a shop that more suit's my needs.

I walked into a head shop in california once, and found outstanding prices on padron,and monte cristo.....the only lower price id seen was at indian reservations....and being I found them on the california coast,WOW!!!

The point is, everybody chooses a buisness model.....if we have no say in that model,or risk.....what's it to us ?

I would love to grow a few acres of the pot....has a lot of uses"and it was a family tradition. No,I don't smoke pot. As Americans; recognise them as brothers. Victims of prohibition that enriches the criminals and the justice system. They take us down one by one convincing us that we are different, and better than.

Should families be broken apart because pop smoke grass.now the family is on welfare cause dad can't work from prision,and the lawyers fee's,court fee's....and lost the respect of his children,or even worse,the children are now comfortable with an underclass lifestyle. The state paid for the family to survive,in california the fee per prisoner is over 56k per year.plus the need to build another prison.....then the ongoing design to keep that prison profitable......its just sick!!!
Stand with your dirty hippie brethern ; for their battle is our battle.