A Question for our European Pipe Historians...

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pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,602
5,208
Slidell, LA
A few years ago I was doing research on churchwarden pipes and their beginnings in Europe. I found a historical document on line discussing how the long pipes were popular among the Hussars and later the general populace. There was also a discussion of how pipes gained the name churchwarden and mentioned the church guards used the long pipes so that the smoke wouldn't obscure their view of the doors to the church while smoking. It also discussed the long pipes being rested on either the pew in front of the smoker or on the window ledge.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? I had the document bookmarked but somehow lost that bookmark and the copy I saved when switching computers two years ago. Now I can't seem to find it doing a search.

 
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armonts

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 3, 2018
164
6
France
I do not understand very well, but basically church wardens were lay people responsible for the maintenance of the church and more generally the accounting and administrative part.

This gave them the opportunity to relax while smoking their pipes with their arms crossed on their counter / desk :D

 

jpmcwjr

Lifer
May 12, 2015
26,264
30,360
Carmel Valley, CA
There was also a discussion of how pipes gained the name churchwarden and mentioned the church guards used the long pipes so that the smoke wouldn't obscure their view of the doors to the church while smoking. It also discussed the long pipes being rested on either the pew in front of the smoker or on the window ledge.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? I had the document bookmarked but somehow lost that bookmark and the copy I saved when switching computers two years ago. Now I can't seem to find it doing a search.
Not familiar, and sounds like a load of hooey. Armonts' has it right about what a Church Warden was (and still is in some denominations or parishes.)

 

Considering that the Native American pipes that the first Europeans encountered were about two feet long, what I have always wondered was why it was not more odd that pipes be under two feet long, rather than odd to see as pipe over 6".
The churchwardens are less the outliers and more inline with the types of pipes that the Native Americans taught white people how to smoke with.

 
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There was also a discussion of how pipes gained the name churchwarden and mentioned the church guards used the long pipes so that the smoke wouldn't obscure their view of the doors to the church while smoking. It also discussed the long pipes being rested on either the pew in front of the smoker or on the window ledge.
Yeh, this all sounds like a culture that has become more used to seeing short pipes rewriting history to make longer pipes seem more exotic. They have had several different names for these pipes, besides churchwardens. I had always heard them referred to as tavern pipes. It was actually on here that I saw that most folks called them churchwardens. I just assumed it was priests that were keeping that name popular. :puffy:

 

workman

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
2,794
4,230
The Faroe Islands
On european ebay sites, "hussar pipes", or whatever, are in abundance. I mean these long pipes with several joints and straps, usually with a porcelain or meerschaum bowl fitted into a hardwood shank. In Denmark they are called soldiers' pipes. Most of them date to the 19th century. They seem impractical today, but maybe less so when compared to the fragile clay pipe. A soldier would need something sturdy. Soldiers' uniforms and equipments of the day also seem impractical and unnessecarily elaborate.

Today's churchwardens are more similar to the long clay pipes that I think Michael refers to above as tavern pipes. My guess is they are tavern pipes as opposed to a shorter pocket pipe. Probably something you could rent at the tavern, and didn't want to run away with, cause it was too long and fragile. I'm guessing now. This is not much help regarding the churchwardens :?

 

jpmcwjr

Lifer
May 12, 2015
26,264
30,360
Carmel Valley, CA
The American indigenous probably did little to influence long stemmed pipes. (And churchwardens- both the men and the pipe style- seem to have originated in the Anglican Church, carried on by US Episcopalians)
From Wiki: (yeah, and "cites needed!")
A churchwarden pipe is a tobacco pipe with a long stem. The history of the pipe style is traced to the late eighteenth or early nineteenth century.[1] Some churchwarden pipes can be as long as 16 inches (40 cm). In German the style is referred to as "Lesepfeife" or "reading pipe," presumably because the longer stem allowed an unimpeded view of one's book, and smoke does not form near the reader's eyes, allowing one to look down.[citation needed]
Such pipes were very popular as an Oriental influence from the seventeenth century onwards in Europe. They remained most popular in Eastern Europe, as an emblem of the Hussars, cavalry troops with roots in Hungary and Poland, whose employment and influence spread from Russia to France and England during the Napoleonic Wars and brought the pipes with them as part of their characteristic dress. It was even known as the "Hussar pipe" at the time. Engraved portraits exist of men smoking such an instrument. This long stem pipe type has its origins in the Ottoman Empire, geographically and historically.[citation needed]

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
12,374
18,665
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
From the art I've seen over the years, clay pipes in the early days were all small bowl and extremely long stems when new. Pipes were sometimes owned by the pub or club and stem tips broken off after a bowl for the next guy up. That's the lore anyway.

 

seldom

Lifer
Mar 11, 2018
1,034
941
On european ebay sites, "hussar pipes", or whatever, are in abundance. I mean these long pipes with several joints and straps, usually with a porcelain or meerschaum bowl fitted into a hardwood shank.

Huh? Here in Germany churchwardens equate to lesepfeife (lesen=reading pfeife=pipe). And those with joints and straps are gesteckpfeife (or jagerpfeife etc). Never heard of a "hussar" pipe.

 

workman

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
2,794
4,230
The Faroe Islands
Never heard of a "hussar" pipe.

Nor did I. We are working agross several languages here. I assumed that the long pipes he mentioned, that were popular with the hussars were the "gesteckpfeife" (what is gesteck?), because I know them as soldiers pipes.

 

pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,602
5,208
Slidell, LA
Hussars, I believe, were originally Hungarian light cavalry.
Yes, Armonts, as you say, church warden were originally the Lay people in a church who cared for the building among other things. And jpmcwjr, just because you've never heard of it and believe it to be "hooey" doesn't make it so. The name churchwarden for pipes had to come from somewhere unless you believe Gandalf just pulled the name out of his wizard hat.
I've never heard of "Hussar" pipes either and I've always wondered just what those pipes were called. I have one in my pipe collection but I've never smoked it. I've heard them called Bavarian and Alpine pipes. I've been told that most of what you find in these days were made for the tourist and military personnel in Europe after World War II.

l7LXzZi.jpg


 

jpmcwjr

Lifer
May 12, 2015
26,264
30,360
Carmel Valley, CA
And jpmcwjr, just because you've never heard of it and believe it to be "hooey" doesn't make it so. The name churchwarden for pipes had to come from somewhere unless you believe Gandalf just pulled the name out of his wizard hat.
The name churchwarden comes from the lay gentlemen of the Church of England who smoked long stemmed pipes. The bunch of hooey is "....a discussion of how pipes gained the name churchwarden and mentioned the church guards used the long pipes so that the smoke wouldn't obscure their view of the doors to the church while smoking."
Churchwardens are not wardens in the sense of jailers. The second bolded point is almost absurd. You really have to try to have it so your pipe- any pipe- will obscure your vision.

 

seldom

Lifer
Mar 11, 2018
1,034
941
Re-reading my response above I notice I come across more gruff than intended. Apologies!
Gesteckpfeife (arrangement pipe) are how the ones pictured above are often called. If you go on the ebay.de page and do a search it'll turn up a bunch of responses. Some are also called Jagerpfeife ("Hunter pipe") and depict game animals and hunting scenes. They'll frequently have tassels of game fur as well and many incorporate antler. Apparently this style was favored by hunters of yesteryear. I've also seen them called Tyrolean pipe. A modern take on gesteckpfeifen is the Vauen Enzian. Interesting to note that some of the historical ones were absurdly long. I've seen a historical photo of a man proudly holding one that is as tall as he is!
Again, these pipes are different than what Germans call lesepfeife (reading pipe). Lesepfeife are what we English speakers would call a church warden.

 

haparnold

Lifer
Aug 9, 2018
1,561
2,395
Colorado Springs, CO
I don't have any intel regarding the churchwarden style, but here's a theory about the origin of the 'Hussar' pipe in the English-speaking world. Smoking fell out of favor in England during or shortly before the reign of George III and was replaced by snuff-taking. However, the Napoleonic wars brought the fashion of smoking back to England, particularly cigars. However, during the Napoleonic wars, pipe-smoking also underwent a resurgence, due in part to the impact of one Prussian general:
"In addition to the examples set by returning officers, society was influenced by visiting dignitaries, including the Prussian General Field Marshal Prince Blucher von Wahlstatt, an ardent pipe smoker, who was seldom seen without his favorite two foot tube that hung down vertically from his lips to his navel." Sounds an awful lot like the Hussar style pipe to me.
Quote from Tobacco: A Cultural History of How an Exotic Plant Seduced Civilization by Iain Gately (page 152)

 

workman

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
2,794
4,230
The Faroe Islands
The obvious explanation to these pipes is comfort. The length allows you to rest the pipe on something, or in the case of the gesteck pipe, wear it with a strap round your neck.

Reasons for the need to rest the pipe on stuff: clay pipes get too hot to hold, other pipes must have been heavy.

 

haparnold

Lifer
Aug 9, 2018
1,561
2,395
Colorado Springs, CO
I think any specific discussion about the evolution of the churchwarden is difficult because it's a shape which comes about by degrees. There are plenty of pipes that could be called a long-stemmed billiard or a rather short churchwarden, depending on who you ask. A very specific style like the 'hussar pipe' is much easier to nail down.
For the record, I'm an Episcopalian (the Anglican church in the US), and I would gladly increase my tithes if long-stemmed pipes were standard issue to our churchwardens!

 

seldom

Lifer
Mar 11, 2018
1,034
941
For gesteckpfeife I think the cord serves primarily as a means of keeping the pieces together. One advantage of the style is that it can be disassembled into several pieces and more easily packed (say on a hunting trip) and the cord keeps one from loosing a piece. At least that is my understanding which may be wrong. Sort of like using a big safety pin to attach a child's mittens to his coat so that he doesn't lose them.

 
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