A Curiosity Antique Pipe - Opinion on Value

madox07 · Feb 21, 2018

I have found this little buster on some web site for sale, and I am just curios what you guys think on it.
Asking price ~EUR 110.

Advertised: "Turkish wooden pipe with silver - OTTOMAN PERIOD - XIX th century, cca. early 1800"

Dimensions: 10 cm (h) / 5 cm (w)
Looks like a pipe without a stem ... whatever that may have been made of. I am imagining a long stem .. something reed or wooden? Non the less pretty nice craft on it, and not sure why there is such a charred stain inside of the heel (second picture). In fact not even sure if this is supposed to be lit with char coal, or simply using a long pipe match.
Any opinions are welcome :?: :idea:

mikethompson · Feb 21, 2018

Reminds me of a hunting pipe. It's definitely missing a stem as you say. Its an interesting conversation piece, but I don't know about smoking anything in it.

shaintiques · Feb 21, 2018

That is very cool. I would consider paying that for a cool bowl like that especially in that condition. Looks pretty good for its age. And you could have a stem made.

crashthegrey · Feb 21, 2018

While really interesting, it depends on what you are willing to pay for something that you likely won't smoke.

cigrmaster · Feb 21, 2018

To me it is worth the price of scrap silver on any given day. The fact it is not a complete pipe makes any other valuation not valid.

madox07 · Feb 21, 2018

Unless some famous pașa smoked it, probably so. But it's still a testimony to early 19th century craftsmanship. I wonder how affordably it was in those times. I bet your ordinary joe doing manual labor or working the docs didn't smoke that. Probably ... merchant class. But I am also curios if anybody knows if this truly is from the early 1800s, judging from the pics.

tuold · Feb 21, 2018

If it's as old as that, it's a historic artifact and worth further research. I think we are sometimes way too quick to just toss stuff out as scrap. There was a lot going on in the Ottoman Empire in the early 1800's. How does pipe making/smoking fit into that history on cultural artistic and political levels? What was the European influence at the time? Who made that pipe and who was made for?

hoosierpipeguy · Feb 21, 2018

Considering the technology they had available at that time, rather impressive metal work. I have no clue about authenticity or value.

saltedplug · Feb 21, 2018

I'd fashion a cheaper stem to see if it smokable and that you like smoking it. If both yes, get a stem made worthy of the pipe, which I find quite interesting.

cortezattic · Feb 21, 2018

To the degree that I can enlarge the 2nd image, I'd say it looks like a burned-out pipe. That wouldn't surprise me if it had a long stem: the smoke stream is cooled so well that the smoker doesn't realize that the bowl is overheating. Happens on churchwardens too.

mikethompson · Feb 21, 2018

The question of its value is really moot though, it is really its value to you

jpmcwjr · Feb 21, 2018

Do we have an expert on either the Ottoman Empire or the early 19th C? I don't think it's of that period, but that's a w.a.g., backed up by sheer nothing.

shanegreen · Feb 21, 2018

The tough time I am having with this one is what the stem was made of. My guess was either wood or bakelite, but the stem could have been just as crafty as the bowl, or have some type of design with it. My guess is that you would just want it for a shelf display, and that would be a matter of how much you liked it.

jguss · Feb 21, 2018

There are experts you might consult. Ben Rapaport, for example, would have a worthwhile opinion or advice on where to get one.
Personally I too am skeptical the pipe dates from c. 1800. Certainly if it’s briar I suspect it’s unlikely to be older than the 1850s. Any idea why the seller says it’s more than 200 years old? And Turkish? Unless the seller has expertise, or has consulted experts, those are just guesses.

madox07 · Feb 22, 2018

Nah ... the seller just sells various antiques, and he is not by any means specialized in pipes. This is just one of the many pieces. I know my antique furniture quite a bit, and I have seen some good pieces he has for sale, so I was thinking that since he has good furniture, something may add up to this pipe as well. How did he reach the conclusion that the pipe was ottoman, or that it's early 1800s, beats me !? I thought maybe somebody around here had some more precise answers ..

jguss · Feb 22, 2018

The point is the material from which the bowl of this pipe was made matters. The introduction of the utilization of briar in smoking pipes is a subject shrouded in competing myths. Setting such unverified stories aside, what’s more demonstrable is that damn few (if any) surviving briar pipes predate the 1850s; frankly very few predate the 1870s. Earlier pipes were generally made from clay, meerschaum, or porcelain. If this pipe is made from briar it’s much more likely to be an artifact of the second half of the 19th century. But again, if this really matters to you reach out to one of the real experts (eg Rapaport) in what is a fairly esoteric field.

mawnansmiff · Feb 22, 2018

That's some lovely silvermithing work on that pipe, clearly not a cheap pipe when new.
"My guess was either wood or bakelite,"
Not Bakelite, that wasn't around in that period. I wouldn't be surprised if a flexible hose was part of the pipe at some stage.
Regards,
Jay.

madox07 · Feb 24, 2018

Well .. decided not to buy. After all, it's a bit too much for a display piece, and I am trying to combine collecting with smoking, not running a museum :roll: But still ... quite a piece.

A Curiosity Antique Pipe - Opinion on Value

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