1913 BBB: Why Did it Sell for $300?

pitchfork · May 29, 2016

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391464078367?
This one is a mystery to me. It's a 1913 BBB straight Dublin "Own Make" with a Glokar stem. On the plus side, it's over 100 years old, it's an "Own Make" (BBB's best line at the time) and it has the somewhat unusual "Glokar" stem. On the down side, it's not a particularly unusual or collectible shape and the condition is nothing to write home about (significant rim darkening, worn silver marks and what looks to be some slight damage to the button). All in all, it's a decent, collectible BBB from the company's heyday.
But I'm really surprised that it sold for over $300. I collect BBB's from this period and I wasn't going to bid more than about $50, mainly because of the condition and I really don't like the Glokar stem (BBB's answer to the P-lip). But even if I liked that style of stem and I really wanted a straight Dublin, I wouldn't bid much more than $100. Likewise, if I were selling it myself, I wouldn't expect to get much over $100 for it.
And yet, 4 different bidders bid over $200 on it, bringing the final bid up to $305.00. What am I missing here? The box, by the way, is not original to the pipe. (Did bidders think otherwise?)

misterlowercase · May 29, 2016

I agree 100% with your synopsis.
It's a nice pipe, but way over-valued and up-priced by unlearned bidders.
The estate pipe market sure is weird.
I wish that I could emulate Jesse and give a psychological breakdown of the bidders LOL

but I lack the knack --- I do think it's a case of an overzealous bidding war though, perhaps.

papipeguy · May 29, 2016

Yep, all you need are two people hell bent on not letting the other guy get it.

pitchfork · May 29, 2016

Yep, all you need are two people hell bent on not letting the other guy get it.

True enough. Maybe that's the bottom of it in this case.

walt24 · May 29, 2016

I have noticed lately a fair number of new bidders, from 0 to less than ten transactions. They are bidding ridiculous amounts of money for what I consider

mediocre pipes.
Walter

mso489 · May 29, 2016

I'd call that a billiard. It's cylindrical not conical. But shapes are sometimes in the eye of the beholder. It's in good shape for a 1913 pipe, overpriced, but probably coveted by Barling people who are excited by and devoted to their brand.

drwatson · May 29, 2016

I'm a sucker for old pipes, I missed that one but would have bid on it.

dmcmtk · May 30, 2016

...but probably coveted by Barling people who are excited by and devoted to their brand.

Barling's??? It's a BBB. :wink:

ssjones · May 30, 2016

I agree with the condition assessment. The final price must have been the combination of a hallmarked, 100 year old BBB that has the original box & bag. That is an unlikely combination on a 100 year old pipe of any brand. That seller also definitely added some value to the cost. If I had sold it, it wouldn't have brought more than $150 or so.

pitchfork · May 30, 2016

That seller also definitely added some value to the cost. If I had sold it, it wouldn't have brought more than $150 or so.

Good point, Al. That could be part of it -- a trusted seller with a broad following. The box and bag, by the way, are much newer (i.e. not original) -- I wonder if some bidders assumed it was original.

pitchfork · May 30, 2016

I now have it on good authority (from the horse's mouth) that the winner, a BBB collector, simply wanted this pipe and bid more than he hoped to bid, but bid he did. And he knew the box wasn't original to the pipe. Part of the blame can be laid on the 1912 BBB Catalogue -- it drives men mad, I tell ya.

mso489 · May 30, 2016

Where did I get Barling? I guess I was distracted by the shape incongruity. So, instead, some BBB pipe fans are well off, or imbalanced. Or both.

misterlowercase · May 30, 2016

Thanks for the update Pitch.
I can totally relate to the collector angle as I myself have overpaid for certain pipes in the past.
Sometimes we are fixated on a certain shape or example and nothing else will do,

if such a pipe rarely pops up then it is only natural that we try to "go for it with gusto!"

Part of the blame can be laid on the 1912 BBB Catalogue -- it drives men mad, I tell ya.

Haha!

So true.

I'd go nuts with $$$ if a Chubby 6055 or 6171 popped up, or one of the BBB all-woods.
What I don't understand is why these wonderful old shapes are neglected and not made anymore, why hasn't as of yet some enterprising pipemaker taken note of the rabid mania associated with English pipe collectors and began offering such quaint old shapes? Yeah, such stuff has been done but it's mostly one-offs or special editions, someone like Chris Asteriou comes closest to what I'm thinking about...
...like what if a pipemaker said:

I've decided this year not to make my regular pipes,

but challenge myself by reproducing every shape that was available in the 1912 BBB Catalogue.
I think he'd have a line of folks in queue with deposits in hand!

pitchfork · May 30, 2016

...like what if a pipemaker said:

I've decided this year not to make my regular pipes,

but challenge myself by reproducing every shape that was available in the 1912 BBB Catalogue.
I think he'd have a line of folks in queue with deposits in hand!

I'd need a divorce lawyer. Or I could use one of the foreign bank accounts. Hmm..... :mrgreen:

georged · May 30, 2016

...like what if a pipemaker said:

I've decided this year not to make my regular pipes,

but challenge myself by reproducing every shape that was available in the 1912 BBB Catalogue.

Effectively impossible without a fraizing machine and the original masters, I'm afraid.
Copying shapes by hand exactly is something I do often, and can assure you it is time-consuming, insanely difficult to do well, has no safety net, AND requires having the object to be copied in hand (a single angle view that's only a drawing would not be enough).
Add to that the extreme difficulty of capturing the subtleties of shape-chart classics as a categorical thing. The KC carving contest shape was a billiard bowl (with any shape or style of shank, no less) a few years ago, and only about 10 of the 50+ entries were true billiards. A half millimeter added or lost in the wrong area changes everything when it comes to the classics.
I like the way you think, though Mr. LC. Those early BBBs are among my all-time favorite pipes. :D

misterlowercase · May 30, 2016

Effectively impossible without a fraizing machine and the original masters, I'm afraid.
Copying shapes by hand exactly is something I do often, and can assure you it is time-consuming, insanely difficult to do well, has no safety net, AND requires having the object to be copied in hand (a single angle view that's only a drawing would not be enough).
Add to that the extreme difficulty of capturing the subtleties of shape-chart classics as a categorical thing. The KC carving contest shape was a billiard bowl (with any shape or style of shank, no less) a few years ago, and only about 10 of the 50+ entries were true billiards. A half millimeter added or lost in the wrong area changes everything when it comes to the classics.

Thanks for being a wet blanket George! :roll:
You had to be a party-pooper and get all realistic and sensible 'n stuff. :idea:
Excellent post.
Thanks.
Your point about actually having the object in hand is particularly of note I think.

Perhaps why Asteriou for example is so good at capturing the heritage lines is that he himself is a collector?

I know he owns some old English pipes, he probably fondles them like the rest of us do.
I know Michael Lindner is a collector too, but the classic angle doesn't seem to come through as much in most his work, although his billiards nail the heritage look.
How many pipemakers are also pipe collectors I wonder?

Specifically of the famous olde English marques.
Some of the shapes in those old catalogs are lost to time and we may never actually be able to see one in the flesh.
What would the original masters for the fraizing machines look like?

Would they be a mock-up type thing?

O an actual carved briar?

dadgy · May 30, 2016

I'm no expert, but I'd venture to guess that a few minutes with a 3D laser scanner on an original pipe could net you enough info to create a fraising master on a 3D printer with a few tweaks. I realize that it would remove much of the allure of artistry, but essentially you're just copying data points and transferring them. Which brings a question to mind, could a pipe be created start to finish on a CNC controlled machine without looking like one of those Vauen monstrosities?

mawnansmiff · Jun 2, 2016

Very good point Dadgy. Perhaps Ken Barnes might chime in, he knows his pipemaking and has knowledge of fraising machines.
Regards,
Jay.

1913 BBB: Why Did it Sell for $300?

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