Why Is Syrian different from Cyprian Latakia And Could They Change It?

[plugugly]

Shouldn't it be possible for Latakia producers in Cyprus to do things a bit different on their Latakia preparation and have something passably "Syrian"? After all, all U.S. produced Perique used to BE St. James but now I read here that a lot is from Kentucky but "Periqued" in St. James, Louisiana!
Plugugly

 

[mikestanley]

The two are made using different oriental leaf and they are cured over

native wood. One of the biggest reasons Syrian Latakia was not available

For so many years was the ban on cutting the trees required to cure

It. To me it's like the difference between Cuban cigars and Cuban seed tobacco.

The soil and the other climate factors make a big difference.

Mike S

 

[warren]

+1 Mike hits it out of the park.

 

[mrbigglesworth]

Mike, that is the best explanation I've ever heard!

 

[lordofthepiperings]

After all, all U.S. produced Perique used to BE St. James but now I read here that a lot is from Kentucky but "Periqued" in St. James, Louisiana!

I've heard someone in Kentucky is trying to make their own Perique. I've also heard it's nowhere near as good as the stuff from St. James Parish.

 

[cortezattic]

Russ Ouellette wrote about it in "Lovin' Latakia".
G.L. Pease wrote about it in "A Tale Of Two Latakias" and "Cyprian Or Syrian?".

 

[cosmicfolklore]

After all, all U.S. produced Perique used to BE St. James but now I read here that a lot is from Kentucky but "Periqued" in St. James, Louisiana!

There a few rumors of perique being made elsewhere, but the only commercial production outside of St. James is that nasty stuff produced by American Spirits cigarettes, which has stems and stuff left and tastes nothing like perique.
By and large I'd challenge anyone to find just one blender who is using non-Mark Ryan produced perique.

 

[warren]

Rumor? Rumor, Cosmic! It was posted somewhere so it must be true! :rofl:

 

[phred]

Tobacco is an agricultural product, and as such is literally a product of its environment. The differences start with the split between Nicotiana Rustica and Nicotiana Tabacum and go on from there to various subspecies and hybrids, different processing methods, and regional variations depending on soil chemistry, weather conditions, sunlight, temperature, yadda yadda yadda. In wine circles, they talk about the "terroir", or the subtle flavoring attributable to the specific region a grape was grown in - same thing holds for tobacco.
As others have pointed out, simply applying a particular process to a different regional variety of tobacco isn't necessarily going to get you the same end result - the pressure fermenting technique used on Perique returns very different results when applied to leaf grown outside of St. James Parish, leading to the conclusion that some of the flavoring compounds are dependent on soil chemistry. Likewise, Dark Fired Kentucky is not the same as either Cyprian or Syrian Latakia, despite all of them being cured over fire.

 

[judcole]

. One of the biggest reasons Syrian Latakia was not available

For so many years was the ban on cutting the trees required to cure

It.

It's always been available. That's why production has stopped, and there isn't going to be any more. ::

 

[python]

Mikestanley Said:

The two are made using different oriental leaf and they are cured over

native wood. One of the biggest reasons Syrian Latakia was not available

For so many years was the ban on cutting the trees required to cure

It. To me it's like the difference between Cuban cigars and Cuban seed tobacco.

The soil and the other climate factors make a big difference.

Mike S

+1 Great explanation.
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Phred Said:

Tobacco is an agricultural product, and as such is literally a product of its environment. The differences start with the split between Nicotiana Rustica and Nicotiana Tabacum and go on from there to various subspecies and hybrids, different processing methods, and regional variations depending on soil chemistry, weather conditions, sunlight, temperature, yadda yadda yadda. In wine circles, they talk about the "terroir", or the subtle flavoring attributable to the specific region a grape was grown in - same thing holds for tobacco.
As others have pointed out, simply applying a particular process to a different regional variety of tobacco isn't necessarily going to get you the same end result - the pressure fermenting technique used on Perique returns very different results when applied to leaf grown outside of St. James Parish, leading to the conclusion that some of the flavoring compounds are dependent on soil chemistry. Likewise, Dark Fired Kentucky is not the same as either Cyprian or Syrian Latakia, despite all of them being cured over fire.
+1 Another great explanation.
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Cosmic Said:

...but the only commercial production outside of St. James is that nasty stuff produced by American Spirits cigarettes, which has stems and stuff left and tastes nothing like perique.

Not true. American Spirit buys their Perique from L.A. Posche that they use in their cigarettes.

Actually most of the Perique tobacco made is bought and used by cigarette companies.
There are quite a few articles on PipesMagazine about Perique and Latakia Tobacco.
Here are a couple about Perique:
The Mystique of Perique
Passionate About Perique
I don't have time to look up any about Latakia Right now, I'm at work .

 

[mso489]

phred's got it: as organic products, tobaccos are entirely a result of the soil, water, climate, and other environment. You can take leaf and process it many ways, but that doesn't change the leaf as the central ingredient. My wife is a baker, among other things, and even fine, high-end bread made with lesser flour gets her immediate downgrade. She doesn't think it's bad, but she knows that isn't the best flour for that kind of bread. Period.

 

[abala653]

I have been lurking here for a month or so since my brother-in-law got me hooked on smoking a pipe. So far I only have a MM Corn Cob and a cheapo Briar, and a few samples of various tobaccos my brother-in-law gave me to start. Now that I've been at it for a month or so, I'm going to start contributing to the forum so hopefully I can get on this list to take part in this awesome program! You guys are the best.

 

[brass]

I would argue that if it isn't produced in St. Jame county, it isn't perique, just as sparkling wines produced anwhere outside the Frechn Champagne regions, isn't Champagne.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Not true. American Spirit buys their Perique from L.A. Posche that they use in their cigarettes.

Actually most of the Perique tobacco made is bought and used by cigarette companies.

L.A Posche and American Spirits are basically the same thing. It is like separating Laudsi from smokingpipes, as I understand it. But, I don't see how splitting hairs over this has any bearing on the fact that you won't find anything but Mark Ryan's perique in pipe tobacco. If not true, then I would really like to know which companies buy from other sources.

But, anyways, my post was merely in response to the OP suggestion that there are people making perique commercially from various places. The answer would be that in the pipe world we have just one source.

 

[plugugly]

I may need to clarify a bit here guys,and it may make no difference to the discussion, but here goes. I under stood Kentucky burley -from Kentucky- is imported to St. James Parish and "perique processed" along with the home grown St. James burley -- and not a word do I hear that the product is in any way inferior to the locally grown stock. So Island of Cyprus! Plant some Shek-al-bent or whatever the variety they grow in Syria is and see what you can do for the anxious American consumer. Now,would THAT stand any chance of working?
Plugugly

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Perique is blended with the burley, and has been for about 50 years. They aren't making perique from the burley.
I really don't know much about latakia. I have been trying out a few Syrian varieties lately, but I am still trying to figure out what the passion is all about. I do know that Greg Pease seems to just think it cannot be done. But, what I don't get is why isn't someone out there experimenting with making different type of latakias. There are hundred times more tobacco varieties for the home and hobby grower to use, but only a handful of tobacco are ever grown commercially. It's like they don't want to expand out into new flavors at all. We are stuck with what we have till someone gets the notion to think outside the box. IMO

 

[plugugly]

We are stuck with what we have till someone gets the notion to think outside the box. IMO

Thanks Cosmic. Not a bad place to be stuck really.
Plugugly

 

[northernneil]

So Island of Cyprus! Plant some Shek-al-bent or whatever the variety they grow in Syria is and see what you can do for the anxious American consumer. Now,would THAT stand any chance of working?

There are three main (basic) components that will influence the flavor of tobacco, prior to processing. First will be the strain of tobacco. Second you will have the location the tobacco is grown. And lastly the location of the leaf on the plant. All of these factors will affect the final taste of the tobacco, for better or worse is open to interpretation. Once you start adding in different processing techniques, you can really create a multitude of flavor profiles.
Syrian Latakia's flavor profile is claimed to be due to the strain of tobacco, where it is grown, and especially by the way it is cured / processed. All this being said, can Syrian Latakia, as it is traditionally known, be grown anywhere else in the world? No! Can something that is new and better be found using a similar curing process? Yes! Has it been, again, that is open to interpretation.

 

[judcole]

So Island of Cyprus! Plant some Shek-al-bent or whatever the variety they grow in Syria is and see what you can do for the anxious American consumer. Now,would THAT stand any chance of working?

No. The wood used to smoke the leaf is crucial. That's not available elsewhere.