Where Do Pipe Makers Get their Briar?

[mikethompson]

From briar farms?

A massive operation like Savinelli say would require a ton of briar to make their pipes. Since briar is an organic material, are there briar farms somewhere? I would think there would have to be a steady supply of aged briar blocks that supply the rulemaking industry, but I have no idea where it would come from.

Anyone know?

 

[B18]

There are briar mills in Spain, Greece, Italy and a few other places.
They don't send aged briar to their clients. The clients must age themselves.

 

[Chasing Embers]

I used to get it from Romeo Briar.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Brian has had interviews with "briar farmers?" or "harvesters?" on our PM radioshow, and I think it was Father the Flame that had a great piece about a harvester. I've read a lot of speculation about the future of briar in articles and such posted on here.
I posted some picture of Skip Elliot's racks of briar on here last year. He has shelves full of them, but he takes so long to make a pipe, that he has enough for several lifetimes. And, I am sure most pipemakers do also. They like to age them themselves and go over each piece carefully before using. Most probably get culled for the best grain and aromas.
Long live the Heath tree!!

 

[STP]

It’s native to the Mediterranean Basin, Portugal, Canary and Madeira Islands, etc., although it’s grown and harvested in many other areas as well.

 

[jguss]

On the subject of carvers and briar I cannot recommend highly enough Jack Howell’s recent blog post: Supply and Demand - https://www.howellhandmade.com/post/supply-and-demand

Insightful and well-written, it offers a perspective that to most of us is both fascinating and entirely new.

 

[ashdigger]

On the subject of carvers and briar I cannot recommend highly enough Jack Howell’s recent blog post: Supply and Demand - https://www.howellhandmade.com/post/supply-and-demand

Insightful and well-written, it offers a perspective that to most of us is both fascinating and entirely new.

Thank you for the article link. What a fantastic read!!!

 

[georged]

Regarding the often-heard story that briar is "about harvested out" and related scarcity myths, the truth is that the plant is as common and widespread as sagebrush in the western United States. Mother Nature has not been affected by Man's loving the stuff for the last 150 years.

What IS true is that harvesting it is difficult and dangerous, so finding willing and skilled workers to do so is getting harder---i.e. more expensive---all the time. Ditto the mill processing. It is also tough, some steps are dangerous, and ultra-specialized knowledge and equipment is required. The result? Attracting apprentice-aged young men willing to enter an industry that is in decline (meaning the percentage of the population that smoke pipes, not quality) is also getting more difficult.

Welcome to the 21st Century.

 

[mingc]

On the subject of carvers and briar I cannot recommend highly enough Jack Howell’s recent blog post: Supply and Demand - https://www.howellhandmade.com/post/supply-and-demand

Insightful and well-written, it offers a perspective that to most of us is both fascinating and entirely new.

That's a really interesting read. I think we all realize that the Bang fellows had to start with superb wood in the first place to get the end products they were putting out and that the cutter was at least partly responsible for cutting the blocks properly so that their quality can be identified. I always assumed they must have been paying a premium to get the good stuff but never realized that you need an "in" as well. I suppose I should have known that. If all you need to for a perfectly symmetrical straight grained block is money, then all carvers with sufficient talent would be able to pull it off. But as we know, they don't. Life is not fair.

Also, does this mean that Dunhill never had an in? ?

 

[jguss]

That's a really interesting read. I think we all realize that the Bang fellows had to start with superb wood in the first place to get the end products they were putting out and that the cutter was at least partly responsible for cutting the blocks properly so that their quality can be identified. I always assumed they must have been paying a premium to get the good stuff but never realized that you need an "in" as well. I suppose I should have known that. If all you need to for a perfectly symmetrical straight grained block is money, then all carvers with sufficient talent would be able to pull it off. But as we know, they don't. Life is not fair.

Also, does this mean that Dunhill never had an in? ?

Factories generally had their own mills.

 

[sasquatch]

Just as an example of process.

But the answer is "You buy briar from briar cutters." Each have their own grading, sizing, price points, and pluses and minuses as vendors.

 

[sasquatch]

And Jack's blog post is bang on - I have known some pretty funny sorts in pipe making, and some of the usual "business" practices don't really apply (or they apply more than ever maybe, depends how you roll). One of my favorite stories is a guy who found some briar on eBay, and it was 100 bucks a box or something, and so he ordered one, and then thought better of it, and ordered another. And noticed that the shipping rate didn't change. So gee, this is a good deal! So another he adds to his cart, and another yet. So he's ordered 4 boxes of blocks and is going to pay for shipping 1! A genius. And the supplier bridled at this, said it was an error. But no, a contract is a contract, this guy wants his briar!

So. He got it all right. 4 boxes. And I'll bet every block was a piece of crap. I sure hope so. Because that was a lousy way to roll. And at the end of the day, no one knows briar like the guy cutting it. So don't fuck that guy is my thought. I approach vendors with an offer to purchase - I'm interested in wood of this particular size/shape/grade, if you are willing/able to sell some to me. And I've been treated really well. This is not the sort of business where as a stranger or unknown guy you just show up with 500 bucks and say "Gimme your best stuff!" It doesn't work that way. The BEST stuff isn't available, nor should it be. Todd Johnson, Roman Kovalev, those guys can have that. I dont need it, and for sure Hobby Tom making 3 pipes doesn't need it (but thinks he does). So it's fun, it's one of the pleasures in this hobby for me, sending off emails to Italy or Spain or Greece and seeing if we can make the logistics of getting some briar to the middle of nowhere work out. (And remember, shipping wood internationally is tricky, there's all kinds of protections in place, and Briar is kinda weird stuff, it's a weird category - it's not lumber).

There's still tons of great, gorgeous briar being harvested. Hell I asked one vendor for WORSE briar than he shipped me the first time because I don't need incredible perfect straight grain every single pipe. That's not what I do. But finding the source, nursing the relationships, that's the fun part.

 

[mso489]

The video I saw of briar harvesting made it look like a small operation by individuals in pairs or small groups, paying for rights to harvest on others' land, in rough terrain, requiring long steady hard labor to dig out the briar root and chop out chunks suitable for carving, then hauling the load over the rough terrain to take for sale. It may sometimes be more "farmed," or organized, or automated than what I saw, but it is laborious stoop labor at best, and it makes what you can pay for a factory pipe seem minuscule. It is one of these jobs where you start very early and don't get home until dark. It reminded me more of mining than harvesting, except you can do it in sunlight. Same hardships come with Meerschaum mining illustrated in a recent video on Forums, but of course, that is underground.

 

[mingc]

Factories generally had their own mills.

Ah yes, how can one forget the British Empire? Silly me. Outpost in north Africa was it?

 

[saltedplug]

I've read that the customers who buy the most get the best briar.

 

[sablebrush52]

That's a really interesting read. I think we all realize that the Bang fellows had to start with superb wood in the first place to get the end products they were putting out and that the cutter was at least partly responsible for cutting the blocks properly so that their quality can be identified. I always assumed they must have been paying a premium to get the good stuff but never realized that you need an "in" as well. I suppose I should have known that. If all you need to for a perfectly symmetrical straight grained block is money, then all carvers with sufficient talent would be able to pull it off. But as we know, they don't. Life is not fair.

Also, does this mean that Dunhill never had an in? ?

Dunhill certainly had an "in". Otto Braun (I think I remember his name correctly) pretty much ruled the supply of briar to much of the British pipe manufacturing trade for many years.
Prior to 1954, Barling had their own harvesting and milling operations in Algeria, so they had an unbeatable "in".

 

[sasquatch]

I've read that the customers who buy the most get the best briar.

It's more complicated than that - guys who need great, tight, perfect grain also only make a handful of pipes a month (or year), they need awsome briar, but they don't buy mountains of it. A guy like Mark Tinsky who makes lots of pipes in a week, and who also sells briar out the back door, he buys TONS of briar. But mostly he doesn't need incredible wood, that's not his market, not his business model. I helped Makis in transitioning to serving the artisan market directly, that buys me credit with the Amadeus mill - it's not always about volume.

 

[mingc]

Dunhill certainly had an "in". Otto Braun (I think I remember his name correctly) pretty much ruled the supply of briar to much of the British pipe manufacturing trade for many years.
Prior to 1954, Barling had their own harvesting and milling operations in Algeria, so they had an unbeatable "in".

I was, of course, trolling the cult of Dunhill and referring to the company's lack of attention to grain, except it seems, by sheer accident. I recall Ken Barnes' stories about Otto Braun and how Herr Braun supplied Charatan with briar. Did he supply Dunhill too? I got the impression this was all post war. Charatan certainly seems to have gotten better use of his goods or was supplied nicer materials than Dunhill.

 

[mikethompson]

There's a lot to digest here. Thanks guys!

 

[sablebrush52]

I was, of course, trolling the cult of Dunhill and referring to the company's lack of attention to grain, except it seems, by sheer accident. I recall Ken Barnes' stories about Otto Braun and how Herr Braun supplied Charatan with briar. Did he supply Dunhill too? I got the impression this was all post war. Charatan certainly seems to have gotten better use of his goods or was supplied nicer materials than Dunhill.

Braun also supplied Dunhill. French cutters didn't cut for grain and since much of the English production in the 19th and early 20th centuries relied on French made bowls, the British product reflected this. Even when British companies took over most of their own cutting and shaping, they didn't "follow the grain". You do get pieces with beautiful grain figure, but it seems to be luck of the draw rather than intent.
Charatan pipes from the Lane era often appear to have been cut with the grain in mind. I don't know if that was true earlier.
A lot of Dunhills have meh grain, but so do a lot of Barlings, Comoy's, Sasieni's and others. But what Dunhill charges for their better figured pipes is way in excess of what other makers charge for pipes of similar or greater grain figure. To some extent, you're paying extra for the stamp.