What's The Cure for Briar -and does it Make A Difference?

[Dreadlock Holmes]

The Pipe and Tamper podcast, Episode 6 interviewed tobacconist Jim Simon of Hill & Hill Tobacconists of Grosse Point. Right in my neck of the woods of America's mitten. It's now been open more than 50 years. Here is what Jim said in the segment talking about why older pipes are better, which I transcribed

"ALL the others use lacquer, which we called 'hot Wax' when it came out in the late 70s. A pipe with a perpetual shine is gonna burn hot, drilled right or not because it holds in the pores. It can't breathe. THAT and the cure. Every factory. EVERY individual factory had different things they did to the wood. All briar then, and today is bought from briar brokers. I'll talk a little about that:

In 1960 the briar brokers realized their Algerian sources were gonna terminate. So they went hunting and found a ton of it in Greece which is where most of it comes from today. The briar comes to the factory. The factory puts it all in a shed. In the old days, the family members ONLY -no foreman. Cause they can quit you and go down the street to another pipemaker and tell him 'this is what he does'. They would puree in the home different concoctions of herbs, liquors, wines, fruits, vegetables and then go 2-3 days a week into the shed and swab all the wood.

So if a man came in today and said 'I own 50 of my fathers and my grandfathers pipes, and before I found you Jim... I bought some new pipes and they don't taste anywhere near as good with the only blend I smoke.' And the result is because of the different cures before 1995. If you had 50 pipes and smoked nothing but ONE blend its gonna reflect differently in every pipe. That does NOT happen today, they do NOT cure the wood today. And if I'm wrong on that -it's not more than 2 months, because they wanna get their money outta the bag of briar and start making pipes."

Those words were burned like rim char on the bowl of my skull. "They do not cure the wood today." However... what I didn't remember was that Jim Simon said if he WAS wrong, then it wasn't more than two months time. Obviously of course, he is a tobacconist but NOT a pipemaker of course.

Is Jim actually right?

I happened to briefly get into a minor gentlemanly kerfuffle with another pipesmoker elsewhere on the web today that informed me ALL briar is subject to a "long" cure and there were only a few "short lived processes" that are no longer practiced like oil curing. This pipesmoker also said that the curing stops the wood from splitting, AND removes a nasty tasting sap from the wood. This man hiself was smoking a NEWLY made pipe from 30 year aged briar.

1. What is Jim Simon referring to AND is he referring to it correctly?

2. Is there really a 1995 cutoff year for Estate Pipes?

3. Should the same tobacco taste subtly different in 50 different pipes -differing ONLY in manufacturer, not shape/etc?

4. How long does it take in mass manufactured pipes? The pipes of sort, with "No Age Statement" like NAS bourbon. Is it really 2 months?

 

[sablebrush52]

This sounds like a steaming load of BS.

One of the reasons that older estate pipes are considered to be better is that the crap -- Sturgeon's Law prevails here -- mostly got smoked to death and got tossed in the trash, leaving a higher percentage of better quality pipes remaining.

In case you aren't familiar with Sturgeon's Law it's basically this: 90% of everything is crap. I suspect Sturgeon was an optimist.

Briar is still processed in the way it has been for well over a hundred years, and some of it is magnificent and most of it is crap, just as it was a hundred years ago. Different makers used different methods for the seasoning of the wood (not seasoning like putting salt on it, seasoning like storing over time as variations in temperature and humidity affected the wood while it dried, contributing to its dimensional stability before carving). Both Dunhill and Sasieni used oil heat and pressure to force out left over tannins that remained after boiling, while Barling and others preferred air drying, even though that took longer. Different methods producing excellent results. They all knew what they were looking for with the wood that they would be using.

I own, and smoke, pipes made between 1882 and 2022 and I've had really excellent performers from all of the years in that range. The secret is buying pipes made by people who know what they're doing. There's no guarantee that you won't ever have a dud, but my experience has been that it's exceedingly rare. Most problems are a matter of operator error.

 

[OzPiper]

Q3 Should the same tobacco taste subtly different in 50 different pipes - differing ONLY in manufacture, not shape etc ?

Tasting is notoriously subjective.
You will need to be a super taster of @JimInks ilk to notice those subtle differences.

I don’t often do tobacco taste-offs but have been tasting wine for over 40 years.
And have seen people argue that a magnum of wine served in 2 separate decanters are 2 completely different wines

For what it’s worth - I have noticed slight differences with different pipe bowl sizes and openness or restricted draws and between pipes made of different materials eg briar vs morta vs clay

Different manufacturers have their favourite bore dimensions. That may translate to a difference in how their pipes smoke, rather than origins of the briar.

I have come across those who say that they can taste differences in briars from different regions.
I remain sceptical, unless those results can be replicated consistently in properly conducted blind taste offs

Does it matter at all (to me) ?
NO ! Not in the slightest.

In the end, all that matters is “was it a good smoke ?”
If it was a MAGICAL smoke, I might be tempted to dissect the elements of that smoke to see if it can be replicated

Smoking a pipe to me is primarily an exercise in relaxation.
Obsessing over minutiae seems completely counterproductive

 

[Briar Lee]

1. What is Jim Simon referring to AND is he referring to it correctly?

In my experience both the selection of the burl and the curing do in fact make a difference in how well a pipe smokes.

2. Is there really a 1995 cutoff year for Estate Pipes?

I’d put that back forty years to November 1, 1954. Words cannot express the cruelty of the French to the native Berbers who dug the best briar in Algeria the world will ever know. From 1954 to 1962 the French slaughtered perhaps a million natives, and lost. Some of that briar may still be in warehouses.

Pre 54 Algerian if oil cured and aged was beyond any duplication. It’s sort of like Pre Castro Cuban cigars. It did sort of spoil the best makers who exclusively used it.

3. Should the same tobacco taste subtly different in 50 different pipes -differing ONLY in manufacturer, not shape/etc?

I think so. But it’s not obvious only subtle. And, as a pipe breaks in the differences are less.

4. How long does it take in mass manufactured pipes? The pipes of sort, with "No Age Statement" like NAS bourbon. Is it really 2 months?

Pre Nov 1 1954 Algerian briar was best, but only if carefully selected and oil cured and aged, and the difference is subtle not marked. There’s other good briar.

Because there is about a hundred times less briar dug today than seventy years ago what is sold is good or it will not sell at any price.

A few months curing is all that’s required, as I understand it.

 

[Briarcutter]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to this. It seems he could be talking about mass produced pipes,machine made pipes like Dr. Grabow. Unless he actually talked to the briar buyers and craftsmen of many different pipe companies how would he know. And even if he did talk to them, many would he hesitant in divulging such information,especially to an outsider. For as long as I've been in this,and the circles I've frequented, I found many of his statements incorrect. However, I've never dealt with mass produced,machine made large factory pipe makers.

 

[telescopes]

I wouldn’t be too quick to believe what people repeat - about anything. Everyone is an expert in their own minds. How do you know that what you just read or heard is full of errors? Answer - it was stated by a human. Even the best AI programs are full of shit. They can only provide answers based on what humans have written.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have found B&M owners and tobacconists that work at them to be some of the worst in terms of knowledge about pipes and tobaccos. But, they also love to talk.

It's like going to a used car salesman for advice on car problems.

 

[Briarcutter]

I have found B&M owners and tobacconists that work at them to be some of the worst in terms of knowledge about pipes and tobaccos. But, they also love to talk.

It's like going to a used car salesman for advice on car problems.

Most of these get their information from the reps or salesman. Their answers in many cases are SOP type answers.

 

[Sig]

I don't know much about this topic, except for things I've heard over the years, which usually contradict each other.
But, I agree with @sablebrush52 and have thought it myself. The reason people love old pipes so much is that the crappy pipes have been tossed. It's well known that even poorly made pipe brands can have an occasional great pipe.
Another thing I find true is that it's harder to get "good briar" these days than it was 50+ years ago.
I have heard from well known pipe makers that what they are paying top dollar for today, was just regular briar a few decades ago.
What is the reason for this? That's where the agreement ends. Some say that it takes decades to grow a good burl and uncontrolled harvesting has left less desirable burls.
Others say that the growing and curing process has been hurried to make more money....which aligns eith the prior mention that good briar takes time.
And then there are some who say that the briar sellers are raising prices for unknown reasons.
The only thing the carvers/buyers agree on is that good briar is becoming harder and more expensive to get.
Again, is this due to limited supply, greed, inflation???
Who knows.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

What is the reason for this? That's where the agreement ends.

Just what I've picked up from here is that there is a ton of briar growing out there. Old gnarly heath trees just littering these places. The problem is mainly two things; the demand for briar is a mere fraction of what it was 100 years ago, and because it is not as lucrative it is hard to get people to harvest it. This I picked up from "Father the Flame" (movie) There are other factors also, I'm sure. But, I am not so sure this has anything to do with lower quality briar nowadays.

My question is, why do people think that these pipes being made now are using inferior briar?

"Quality" is completely a subjective thing. But, I would hold many of my new custom made pipes up against the old factory mades any day.

Are some pipemakers using bad briar... I'm sure they are, whatever one means by inferior or "bad." Not every pipemaker is going to hold the same concept of "quality."

Also, someone buying only less than $150 factory made pipes, really shouldn't have a say in these discussions.

This whole discussion is based on an assumption, and paints the whole scene with a wide brush. Sounds to me like something a B&M owner would engage in. I try not to talk to much to B&M owners, but I like to visit these shops when I travel. I'll drop a few bills on them to help support them, but I get along better with them when I don't talk to them.
And, I am sure that there are some very wise and intelligent B&M owners out there. But, I don't think one of these guys are going to be making youtube videos.

 

[gervais]

An interesting topic! Im very curious to know if briar is, in fact, the best wood available for pipe making, or is it just what we have accepted as "the best"? Let that swirl around in your heads for a while....

 

[fireground_piper]

Let me tell you about Algerian briar. It’s ready to go right out of the ground.

 

[anotherbob]

I agree with the this is b.s.. My understanding which could be wrong is curing was just about drying out the briar and getting rid of the sap which is nasty. One way to cure them is to let them sit outside in the ground dead for a long time. Lower demand means they don't need to go through the same steps. Again could be wrong but just goes to show how many fables are passed around about things people don't know much about.
One thing I do know is if you go back pre90s pipe ads and sales stuff often focused on some narrative like the one presented above. Our pipe is special because Uncle Rebar uses his own secret blend to cure our pipes a blend of his stale urine and old spices that have gone off.

 

[Briarcutter]

My understanding which could be wrong is curing was just about drying out the briar and getting rid of the sap which is nasty. One way to cure them is to let them sit outside in the ground dead for a long time.

That's a good start, it must happen but when I started out many years ago many of us here and Europe did a secondary curing process. i still do it and if done right, makes a huge difference. You are right, the briar cutter buys the wood from the digger, cuts it,boils it and lets it slowy dry for a year or so. Then the pipe maker buys it, he may choose to let it sit longer in his shop or start cutting pipes right away. i choose to let it sit for several more years. Then I proceed with my secondary curing. Leting the briar sit,IMO, is not curing the wood, just drying or aging. Which is a very good thing, but it can be better I realize "secondary curing" is a misnomer by my own definition of curing, but it's the term I've used for decads, no sense in changing it now

What is the reason for this?

Everybody and their brother wants to be a pipe maker these days, supply and demand. When I started out there were literally a handful or so pipemakers in USA, now, I'd be afraid to guess.

 

[telescopes]

That's a good start, it must happen but when I started out many years ago many of us here and Europe did a secondary curing process. i still do it and if done right, makes a huge difference. You are right, the briar cutter buys the wood from the digger, cuts it,boils it and lets it slow!y dry for a year or so. Then the pipe maker buys it, he may choose to let it sit longer in his shop or start cutting pipes right away. i choose to let it sit for several more years. Then I proceed with my secondary curing. Leting the briar sit,IMO, is not curing the wood, just drying or aging. Which is a very good thing, but it can be better

Everybody and their brother wants to be a pipe maker these days, supply and demand. When I started out there were literally a handful or so pipemakers in USA, now, I'd be afraid to guess.

Agreed. There are people who make pipes as a hobby and then there are those who are in it for the long haul and permanence.

 

[Briar Lee]

Does briar quality even matter, except how pretty the pipe?

There’s a school of thought all the taste comes from the chamber and stem dimensions (construction) and not the taste of the briar itself.

There was no briar raised around Humansville but Harry Hosterman grew so prosperous selecting ancient white oaks for bourbon barrels he spent most of his pleasant weather afternoons squatted down on his haunches outside my father’s Grade A milk barn listening to Alva Rains regale us with stories about the glories of the Eighth Missouri State Militia Dark Horse Cavalry save our little region from Confederates, Bushwhackers, Arkansawyers and Jayhawkers.

The men who make good bourbon think the quality of the wood used matters:

Xxxx

Barrel-destined oak trees ideally grow in cool climates, which gives them a chance to mature slowly and develop a desirable tight grain. Most trees are at least 60 to 80 years old before they are harvested, though some coopers only use trees 150 to 200 years old. It's difficult to say how many barrels can be harvested from a single tree, because it depends on the size of the barrel and the condition of the tree, but typically a cooper can get between one and three standard-size barrels (which hold approximately 60 gallons) per tree.

Xxxx

There had to be Harry Hostermans in Algeria, and a few left in Italy mainly, today.

Because when there were a hundred times more briar dug, every maker thought it mattered a lot, the location, age, curing and selection of the briar used. All of them, not some of them.

 

[sablebrush52]

Just read through that transcript again to see if it really wasn’t as dumb as a sack of rocks. It is. This guy knows zero about pipes.

All those secret herbs and spices…it’s a pipe, not a drumstick.

Briar doesn’t breathe. One of my favorite pipes, the only one with a lacquered finish, is a Nording high grade that smokes very coolly.

Some British makers used to apply a thin coating of gum arabic to the surface before the final waxing, just to smooth out the texture a little.

A bit on Algerian briar. Manufacturers used to consider it to be lesser quality due to its relative softness and greater susceptibility to cracking. Barling and Comoy, which both ran their own harvesting operations in Algeria, figured out how to use it. At the same time, briar was being harvested in other Mediterranean countries, and used to make pipes, so that 1960 date is bull shit.
In my conversations with Ken Barnes, who forgot more about briar than I’ll ever learn, he said that the briar available today was as good as at any time in the past. There have always been different qualities of briar on the market at different price points. The quality is there for those willing to pay for it, but they also have to know what they’re doing.
As for Algerian plus oil curing being better, more BS.
And wine? Isn’t the idea of curing to get rid of tannins, not to introduce them?
Briar is a natural substance and, like human intelligence, will vary greatly.

 

[georged]

It's ALL about grip pressure whenever holding the bowl for longer than 1.378 seconds.

If more than .07761349142 ounces per square inch, the smoke will taste like shit. Less than that and it will taste great.

That's it. Always has been, always will be. In fact the entire business about briar's source country, processing, additives, treatments, curing. yadda yadda yadda is all an elaborate deception to keep people from thinking about BOWL GRIP PRESSURE.

Do NOT be distracted, do NOT be fooled...

(If the bowl is held for 1.377 seconds or less, things change from .07761349142 ounces per square inch to .07761349148, but that's another subject entirely. For now, just round up to 1.4 or so and keep it simple.)

 

[Briarcutter]

Does briar quality even matter, except how pretty the pipe?

IMO, yes it does matter in smoking qualities. I've had blocks that looked good on the outside. When drilled, very red, even after my curing it was still very red... firewood. The briar cutters know good wood and toss much of it but some still gets by. if you had a unscrupulous cutter you'd get bad wood in the pipe shop if the pipe makers or purchaser was not careful. Good wood makes good smoke. But, having said that, sometimes even good wood flops, a mystery.

 

[Briarcutter]

It's ALL about grip pressure whenever holding the bowl for longer than 1.378 seconds

I've had good response up to 1.379 and even as much as 1.39 with no I'll effects

Take that AI!