What Does "Made in England" or "London" Mean?

[mso489]

The stamp says it right there: "Made in England," or "Made in London," or "Made in London England." It depends what "made" makes it mean. I think it is sablebrush who keeps warning us that even the finest (or most expensive) English pipes may be partly produced in Italy or France, maybe the stummels partially or mostly carved and sanded, or whatever. If the stamp says "Made in England," what should that mean? What does it mean? I'm not getting down on English pipes. I love my four or five, especially my Ferndown that is an English thoroughbred. Now that Comoy has moved back to France and Ben Wade is in France (I think), I'm feeling around trying to decide what Made in England means. I just bought a little English estate factory pipe, perhaps about 30 years old, unsmoked, that is stamped "Made in England." Maybe that one is. How about English pipes? What is made in England?

 

[ashdigger]

I think it just means an Englishman touched it before it was put up for sale. Various pipe houses had various standards. Some are "Made in England" and some are just "lip-service" Made in England.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If brought before a judge, "made" could be defined, as merely putting a stem into the stummel. That's my guess. But, I wouldn't limit that to just English pipes. I think that there must be quite some flexibility in that sort of stamp.

 

[mso489]

Artisanals still engender my belief that they are made where the stamp says. I think with any sort of factory pipes, Italy and France seem to be able to do it better cheaper. For now at least, they seem to have the crafts culture and economics worked out so they draw pipe-making contracts like a magnet. When Stanwell production went to Italy from a grand pipe-making country like Denmark, that was an earthquake in pipe-making history. And I think the quality was well sustained, though old Stanwell loyalists may not be so sure. It would be commendable if England can hang onto a real pipe-making and tobacco blending culture, but right now, it seems their grip is loosening.

 

[warren]

Obviously there is money to be made in the manufacturing of stummels. Money is also to be made shaping and finishing pipes from stummels. It appears that doing both is not the best path to profits. Gear up to do one or the other, not both, for optimal profits. I'm sure there are exceptions but, they seem to be fewer as the years pass.
It's a bit like "made in America" as opposed to "assembled in America." Different products have different requirements for the labels. Then there are the fakes from all over the world.
The definitions would be easy enough to research as countries published such information. It's just not of interest to me. I'd start with Googling "product labeling England."

 

[sablebrush52]

Legally, the "Made In England", or "London Made", or any variation thereof stamped on the side of a pipe are a guarantee of nothing more than that it was assembled in England.
The French created the briar pipe, not the British. French merchants set up companies in England to sell and distribute briar pipes made in France. Stamping the pipes as "made in England" gave them a more accepting local market.
To some degree, part of the manufacturing process was done in England, usually the finishing of the bowl and mounting with a stem. I would guess there was a tax advantage to importing components rather than finished goods.
Even after British companies began manufacturing their own pipes, they relied heavily on bowls and stems imported from France and Germany, only supplementing their stock with home made product. Regardless of where the bowl was turned, it was stamped with a "Made In England" or some variation stamp. Having that stamp gave the pipe a level of unmerited cachet given that the superior and more experienced carvers were to be found in France.
The importance of maintaining this fiction is underscored by a kerfuffle that took place in 1928 when Barling sought to amend provisions pertaining to briar pipes in the Merchandise Marks Act. Barling wanted it amended to require that pipes stamped with a "Made in England" or "Made In London" stamp, or any variation thereof, to actually be made in England, London, or etc. Barling was making all their own pipes, while their competitors were continuing to import sizeable portions of their stock from France. Barling felt that they deserved the prestige derived from that "Made in England" stamp. After all, they were actually making all their own pipes.
The rest of the pipe manufacturing industry closed ranks against them. According to the transcripts, Dunhill threatened to close up operations in England and move them off shore, Comoy stated flatly that the skills to properly turn bowls did not exist in England and could not be developed, etc.
In the end, Barling lost and so a bowl can be turned elsewhere and still be stamped as "Made In England" or "Made in London" or some such variable as long as the parts are put together in England.

 

[mso489]

Like the automobile industry is global no matter what nation has the name on a car. The assembled components are from all over. The plants are all over. What's American, Japanese, Korean? I'm glad I bought a number of pipes while there was still some national identity in their manufacture or crafting. Most of the national stamps I believe. I think the Danish, Italian, French, and Irish pipes are made entirely in the stamped countries, for the most part. That is, or was, part of the fun of buying various pipes, the world representation from various countries, and the distinctness of the pipes by nation. Now that's becoming more squishy.

 

[jpmcwjr]

How dare those Barling folks insist that "Made in England" means what it says?? Money talks, nobody walks..... Ouch! I guess the battle was lost almost 100 years ago.

 

[ssjones]

Yep, that ship sailed. England has almost no current pipe making presence.

I think the only ones left are:
Artisans

Chris Askwith

Northern Briars

Ashton
Factory type

Blakemeer

Dunhill

 

[jpmcwjr]

And that last one, if it still even exists as a UK manufacture, will go the way of the Passenger Pigeon.

 

[mawnansmiff]

I spoke with Mike Billington of Blakemar Briars of Northamptonshire, England and he told me all his pipes bar his handmade efforts are turned in Spain yet they are all stamped 'Made In England'.
So as Jesse says, they only have to be assembled and finished over here to qualify for that (I believe) valuable stamp.
Right or wrong? I personally think it is wrong. To be stamped thus I believe the entire process should be done in the country stated on the pipe but that is just my opinion.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[ssjones]

I agree with you Jay, but were fighting windmills here.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm really surprised that retailers still divide pipes up by origin anyways. There is so much blurring of the lines. It would be better for pipe shoppers like me if they divided them by styles, instead of countries.

 

[mso489]

Whoa, now Spain is mentioned in the pipe making business. That's a new one on me. I'm not so sure about Dunhill being made in UK; that one is a definite maybe. Other countries not previously associated with pipe making very much, in Eastern Europe and so on, are also mentioned. So it's gone global, and that's that. I guess you just shop a brand for the quality of their bringing it together and don't expect some kind of national flavor in design, finish, and aesthetic. The stamp is an old time amenity, and is basically wishful thinking. I somewhat believe "Italy" and "France," and maybe "Greece" as an oddity. But it's a suspicion, no longer a faith. Dr. Grabow, Sparta, N.C., and Missouri Meerschaum, Washington, Mo., now those I believe, made in USA, for now.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"It would be better for pipe shoppers like me if they divided them by styles"
I can see the logic in that Michael but certain countries products have a cachet that others do not. Would you rather buy a pipe made in America or one made in Taiwan? Perhaps Taiwan has a burgeoning quality pipe making centre (which I doubt) but given the choice I would go for American out of the two. Why? Because it has a history of making (some) quality pipes whereas Taiwan (as far as I am aware) does not.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Well, Jay, if I don't know the brand, I can look it up, if that makes a difference to me. But, it would make shopping for a pipe so much easier if I can click on "billiards" and shop them as opposed to just looking through all of the Savinellis to find a billiard. It would seem far less likely to me that someone would want an Italian pipe first, and then decide on Savinelli, and then from there look for one of any shape that appeals to them. Maybe I'm wrong, but the country of origin comes in dead last on my list of specs that I am looking for. Not that I would be happy with any country of origin, but that it is not in the top five specs that a pipe must fill before I buy it.

 

[saltedplug]

sabloebrush, wonderful history on the stamping "Made in England." It's always seemed to me a sign of distinction as I've thought of London as historically important in pipe making history. But per your post I now know France was much more important, and that that distinctive stamp means very little. I guess it's a remnant about nothing used to impress smokers who don't know enough to discount it.

 

[georged]

It means someone stamped "Made in England" or "Made in London" on the pipe. :lol:

 

[jefff]

That explains why my "Made in Estonia" pipes are so poorly received.
I need a new stamp!

 

[mawnansmiff]

Jeff, I have two spare stamps going very cheap...
1 Made In Cihna
2 Maid In Tiawan
:rofl:
Regards,
Jay.