Water Weight

[Country Bladesmith]

So I was doing some home blending/mixing/whatever last night, and had three 8 oz bags of tobacco laid out on the counter. The difference in the amount of tobacco in each bag was quite noticeable. More so than I woulI tried to take a picture, but the photo doesn’t really do it justice:

Left to right: C&D Izmir, Sutliff 515 RC-1, D&R Picayune.
The Izmir had the most tobacco in it, followed by the Picayune, and then the Sutliff red. Nothing else to really add here, other than it was surprising to see the differences in the amount of tobacco in each bag. I knew there would be less in the Sutliff bag, since the other two are always pretty dry, but I wasn’t expecting that much of a difference.

 

[ashdigger]

I can’t tell, but are they the exact same cut? It’s amazing what a slight change in cut and blend does for volume.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

C&D has commented specifically they ship their tobacco dry so you're paying for the leaf not water.

 

[ashdigger]

Btw, when saw the thread topic, my first thought “a complaint” about the gallon of water per 100 grams of Full Virginia Flake.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

I can’t tell, but are they the exact same cut? It’s amazing what a slight change in cut and blend does for volume.

Yeah, that’s a good point. The C&D and Sutliff are very comparable ribbon. The Picayune is shag.

 

[fightnhampster]

I just jarred 8oz of Sleepy Hollow, and was surprised how space it took. Only 2 8oz jars.

I typically Buy C & D Blends in bulk. 8 oz of haunted Bookshop take up 4, 8 oz jars.

 

[karam]

C&D has commented specifically they ship their tobacco dry so you're paying for the leaf not water.

While this is an accurate and impressive statement, it IS also a fair bit of a marketing thing too, isn't it?

It'd be more accurate to say "We prepare blends that are designed to work in a dry state, so you're paying for the leaf not water", but that doesn't have such a nice ring to it

I could just as well say that a bowl of Bayou morning flake (one of my favourite VaPers) for example lasts up to half as long as a bowl of St James flake, so the "water weight" theory doesn't really hold water. I prefer to consider each blend on its own, some are wetter than others, some work best dry, semi dry, or out the tin, or give off different nuances depending on how you dry/prepare them.

 

[karam]

Can't edit anymore, apologies for the double post.

I wanted to return to the C&D line because it resonates with me a lot, I am also involved in product messaging in my job, and think it's a fascinating field in itself that's often overlooked by more flashy (visual) marketing/messaging, which by the way I simply can't do!

I am sure they do not intentionally design blends to work in a dry state, that'd be putting the cart before the horse. I'm sure they start with a concept, and then work towards it like everyone else involved in any sort of design.

I like this line because it resonates with the enthusiasts, this crowd, us, who go on an international forum to read and write about pipe smoking. It is probably a matter of fact line, not conceived by marketers, but even so it is brilliantly good as a slogan. It puts a stamp on a company, it is simple, memorable, gives them a differentiator, subtly but surely promotes the fact they are a newer company who do things differently than those before, builds confidence and familiarity ("C&D is one of us frustrated with soppy wet flakes"), everything a marketer dreams of!!
Its weakness, if I put my work hat on, is that it can be perceived as a bit adversarial (which is a fine line to walk) - this thread is living proof of this fact.

 

[unadoptedlamp]

I don't personally see extra moisture in blends as a bad thing.

My concern is whether or not it tastes good and I would rather blends came a little more moist than I like, because then I have the option to dry it out to my tastes or not.

Rehydrating a blend is a pain in the ass. I've tried it once and won't bother with it again. But, I guess some people like that. Or they like crispy tobacco. The preferences are all over the place.

And then, there is the issue of cost, which does come up from time to time. But, we're talking about pipe tobacco. It is already ridiculously inexpensive, compared to other forms of tobacco. If one blend has a couple of grams extra in water weight compared to another, I don't see that impacting my finances in any meaningful way.

Maybe the extra moisture makes a blend taste different. Better or worse?

For those cellaring for age, maybe increased water content is beneficial?

Very hard to compare these things, because it's usually down to different manufacturing process and blends. You would have to have the same blend hydrated at different levels to get to the bottom of it. And who has time for that?

I personally like the moisture content of GL Pease blends. They seem ready to smoke, for my tastes. If they had higher moisture content, it would not turn me off. I would just dry them out a little more.

Then there are also brands like Gawith to consider. Very highly regarded blends. What would they taste like with a different process that makes them more dry? Could be that the higher moisture content gives them that little something extra that so many people love. And love to hate, because they tend to require some prep time to get them to the moisture content for good smoking.

Very complicated issue, I suspect.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Sometimes we pay for water.. when we do, I suspect it helps Captain Black's bottom line.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

First... you're blending Picayune? Blasphemy!! That's a favorite of mine... I can't fathom watering it down. It's the perfect stregnth.

Yeh, I think another incentive for shipping their tobaccos dry is to prevent molding. If you're NOT going to load it with chemicals, then you have to have another plan... dry is genius. Plus, if you want a little moisture, add it. Treat it the exact opposite of a blend that's moist, where we dry ours, some might want to hydrate their's.

Tobacco is dry for most of it's journey from field to tin. We, being pipesmokers, tend to way over think hydration. If you want videos of blenders at work, they just mist the tobacco, even in the large vats, they just spray it down and mix it. When I want some moisture, I just mist it with a spray bottle of distilled water, and stir it up, and put it in a jar.


I like my tobacco dry. I want to slowly savor an easy burning pack, just let the flavor flow...

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Sometimes we pay for water.. when we do, I suspect it helps Captain Black's bottom line.

If you ever check out the Hangman's Daughter trilogy, they mention 17c blenders loading tobaccos down with syrupy Germanic candy stuff, the game the whole weight/tax issue.

 

[musicman]

Btw, when saw the thread topic, my first thought “a complaint” about the gallon of water per 100 grams of Full Virginia Flake.

My first thought was similar, as I noticed last week when I received my first ever box of St. James Flake, Sam Gawith clearly states on the box: "Sold subject to loss by evaporation."

 

[jpmcwjr]

The amount of tobacco is the same, if the weights were correct. Volume is appearance, and another matter.

Most tobaccos are shipped with a bit more moisture than is ideal for smoking. Keeps better, looks better, costs a fraction less at the factory, though no one I've read has said, "Yes, you loose the equivalent of 1/10 of an ounce due to excess water content".

 

[Country Bladesmith]

I don't personally see extra moisture in blends as a bad thing.

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to insinuate anything negative about blends with more moisture, although I’m not a fan of goopy PG messes. Water moisture is ok. I just thought it was interesting how much those bags varied.

First... you're blending Picayune? Blasphemy!! That's a favorite of mine... I can't fathom watering it down. It's the perfect stregnth.

? Yes, it’s a favorite of mine, too. But this blend needed some strength and a little spice, and Picayune was perfect in my little taste tests. I had a hard time finding decent blending Perique, so I tried Picayune in its stead, and it worked really well. Although I’ll be pressing this mixture, and I didn’t press my “test smokes.” I’ll see how it turns out.

 

[mso489]

You pay more for moist blends, and more again for goopy blends. You pay for what you want. You can always add moisture at home.

 

[jpmcwjr]

You pay more for moist blends....

Yup. But is it at all significant? Is it—can it— be more than, say 1%? Surely a physicist could figure that out, or Russ, Greg and so forth would know off hand.

 

[pantsBoots]

Btw, when saw the thread topic, my first thought “a complaint” about the gallon of water per 100 grams of Full Virginia Flake.

First time buying boxes of FVF this past few weeks. They came much drier than the stuff in the tins.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

Yup. But is it at all significant? Is it—can it— be more than, say 1%? Surely a physicist could figure that out, or Russ, Greg and so forth would know off hand.

Starting to sound like the potato paradox ?

Here’s a quick copy/paste from Wikipedia:
Fred brings home 100 kg of potatoes, which (being purely mathematical potatoes) consist of 99% water. He then leaves them outside overnight so that they consist of 98% water. What is their new weight?

The surprising answer is 50 kg.

 

[cshubhra]

I would add some more information to this debate

Semois is the driest tobacco I have seen, and it yields double the number of bowls compared to any regular tobacco.