I originally posted this to introductions (#1) forum - Has anyone slightly boiled and cooled a Ball jar of Virginia’s creating a pressure like an aged tin of tobacco?
Virginia fermentation exceleration # 2
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Well the incentive would be fermentation. Russ from Hearth and home was helping me with another problem and educated me on fermentation a bit. Moisture and pressure equals fermentation. That would be evident from the process of the perique method of tobacco. I’m suggesting we do it with air pressure like an old tin of tobacco. We now live in a world where we almost deserve McClellands recipe. Jesus ! Somebody buy it at already!! Couple million? We all know we need ultra quality leaf but their is more to it for sure. . Just buy it !! Anyways, I’m at least looking for the process or something like it. I think air pressure plus a physical hot press of some degree is the answer. Obviously there are stoveds and what not of turning the stacked leaves to ferment, but I think we can speed up this process. I would like the experts opinions but anything creative and knowledgeable is welcome also. I also like wise crack jokes. After all the world is too evil not to enjoy one’s self.
It sounds like baking tins in the oven would be nothing more than stoving or toasting. Unless it was a short heat to freezer I don’t see it creating an air pressure. Good to know though for future experiments. I could see the oven method toning down bitterness in burleys, or creating caramel in Virginia’s. Interesting.
You might enjoy reading Chuck Stanion's article: How Tobacco Ages.
(If someone could point you to a good spell/grammar checker, that would help as well. :lol: )
(If someone could point you to a good spell/grammar checker, that would help as well. :lol: )
IIRC, the baking methodology thread also mentioned a controlled temperature water bath about 150-180*F (essentially sous vide cooking), which would be similar to your boiling query but without killing all the microbes that make fermentation possible.
McClelland is/was my favorite producer, and I'm doubly enjoying my remaining stock. I panicked last year and tried to find "replacements" in vain, and came to face reality: there will be no replacing McClelland. But in my quest I discovered several other brands/blends that were nowhere close in flavor but that I enjoyed just as much, if not more. Akin to the local Mexican restaurant closing but a great Indian one opening in its place.
McClelland is/was my favorite producer, and I'm doubly enjoying my remaining stock. I panicked last year and tried to find "replacements" in vain, and came to face reality: there will be no replacing McClelland. But in my quest I discovered several other brands/blends that were nowhere close in flavor but that I enjoyed just as much, if not more. Akin to the local Mexican restaurant closing but a great Indian one opening in its place.
I would be concerned that heating them up would create pressure and would pop the tin seal. Obviously, that defeats the purpose. I don't see of way of accelerating the process and duplicating what only time can do. If there were validity to this, one would think the manufacturers would have figured it out and be doing it.
Go to fair trade tobacco and look up kilning. Folks there have been experimenting with all phases of tobacco growing and processing. There are a couple of members of both this and that forum who are particularly adept with a crock pot.
I am probably going to get some details wrong here, but commercial tobacco is intentionally stored in big, crated, piles called bales in huge un-condidioned warehouses. The center of the bale warms up due to microbial and enzymatic activity, like a compost pile. This is fermentation. In cigar tobacco production especially, the bales are split up and re-stacked periodically so new leaves are always fermenting in the center of the pile.
This process can be replicated at home in any environment that can support hot humid conditions for weeks on end. The reason it isn't done commercially is because labor and storage time are way WAY cheaper than heating giant warehouses.
This is only done with raw leaf, by the way. You are free to experiment, of course, but I would think any finished, blended product would have added sugars or flavorings in it that would react differently to the process than you might want.
I am probably going to get some details wrong here, but commercial tobacco is intentionally stored in big, crated, piles called bales in huge un-condidioned warehouses. The center of the bale warms up due to microbial and enzymatic activity, like a compost pile. This is fermentation. In cigar tobacco production especially, the bales are split up and re-stacked periodically so new leaves are always fermenting in the center of the pile.
This process can be replicated at home in any environment that can support hot humid conditions for weeks on end. The reason it isn't done commercially is because labor and storage time are way WAY cheaper than heating giant warehouses.
This is only done with raw leaf, by the way. You are free to experiment, of course, but I would think any finished, blended product would have added sugars or flavorings in it that would react differently to the process than you might want.
I had some fun w/sealed round VA tins. I put one under the seat of my car over a 48hr period this summer, letting it "sit in the sun" and then I popped the tin two days later, so four days of total experimentation.
The results were noticeable compared to a similar tin with the same age, although, not sure I want to spend time doing this to other tins in my cellar for the little improvement it gave.
The results were noticeable compared to a similar tin with the same age, although, not sure I want to spend time doing this to other tins in my cellar for the little improvement it gave.
As someone who dabbles and enjoys homebrewing and pickling, I've always been curious about what introducing some controled bacteria would produce in tobacco, such as lactobacillus (for a sour flavor) or other "farmhouse" bacteria (like in the French brew siosons). I also wondered what some types of yeast would do (an ale yeast that produces banana and clove like flavors when fermented at 82 f, sounds like it might work to me..)I've just never had the tobacco to try it, but I'm willing to bet, aka my hypothesis, is that there is a blend of bacteria and/or yeasts that would make for some remarkable changes in the tobacco leaf.
But to answer the op original question. Yes, I have done all of the above. I've baked and boiled jars/tins of tobacco. It will slightly change the flavor of the tobacco, especially with va's, but it's not going to taste fermented like a 5 year old tin will, and it's not going to accelerate anything. In fact, I think the heat and the pressure might actually kill the anaerobic bacteria (which is what causes the fermentation in a tobacco tin) and would actually radically slow down or completely halt the fermentation process. You cant rush nature and time.
<p>Sorry I’ve been busy and just got a chance to come back to see what’s been cooking (pun intended). Thanks for all the replies, links, and ideas. I will dig into the info. I’m also a home brewer. That’s some left field thinking right there. I’m not sure brew yeasts would work as well as lacto B. etc. unless for example you spray it all over the leaf in a perique process. Figuring out how many pounds of pressure equals temperature would be difficult unless you had an internal thermometer in the barrel and used the rooms A/C-heating to help control the temperature. Next you would have to find yeasts that like the sugars in whatever particular tobacco your pressing. Cooking tins might not be such a great idea health wise. There is no telling what’s in some of those metals that could release toxins when heating to really high temps. Again I need to read more about that process to know what I’m talking about though. I’ll check out the links. I do have a spell checker, and was using it. Unfortunately after my sixth bottle of boulevard sixth glass I tend not to care all that much.
Yeah I’ve found some great tobaccos too. Not to replace McC’s but to distract myself. Some I already smoked but many new adventures did arrive from their retirement. I wish them well. I’ve come to enjoy 3-5 year old tins of C&D that are not hard to find at normal price. The Sutliff matured is ok, a bit harsh though, and seems artificial to me. I have always loved H&H marble kake as a staple in its own right. I’m digging aged tins of many makers. Blackened Hamborger Veermaster is stellar. Love my Lakeland area stuff too. Still nothing compares your right.
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