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dd57chevy

Can't Leave
Apr 7, 2023
493
1,466
Iowa
Just trying to understand the industry . With the closure of the Sutliff operation , does this actually mean we have nothing but small boutique operations (C&D , etc.) ?

Virginia's tobacco row is tobacco rowed closed ?

Sorry , but .........we got nothin ???
 
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dd57chevy

Can't Leave
Apr 7, 2023
493
1,466
Iowa
I don't think C&D is "merely" a boutique blender. They are now exporting many blends to Europe.
And, I don't think Sutliff was much of anything on Tobacco Row. C&D has been a much larger operation than Sutliff for a while now.
I guess I should have done my homework . Though I have bought a few C&D tins , I didn't realize they were quite so big . Though they call themselves a "boutique blender" , they sold 120,000 lbs of pipe tobacco in 2023 .


I'm not sure they have the machinery or the scientific ability of a Sutliff , though .
 
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cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,906
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Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
I'm not sure they have the machinery or the scientific ability of a Sutliff , though .
Sutliff couldn't even make flakes. They had to commission STG to do that. The majority of what Sutliff did was pour toppings onto already processed leaf. That was about it... and tin them. I'm not sure what science you are referring to.

For years on here, we've had three members who would always say, "Sutliff processes tobaccos for other companies." Yes, they poured goop onto tobacco for other companies. I'm sure they may have done other stuff also, but gooping the leaf was sort of their main job.
 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,715
53,352
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Sutliff couldn't even make flakes. They had to commission STG to do that. The majority of what Sutliff did was pour toppings onto already processed leaf. That was about it... and tin them. I'm not sure what science you are referring to.

For years on here, we've had three members who would always say, "Sutliff processes tobaccos for other companies." Yes, they poured goop onto tobacco for other companies. I'm sure they may have done other stuff also, but gooping the leaf was sort of their main job.
That's a gross mischaracterization. Carl McAlastair's matches involved much more than dumping whatever sauce on whatever flake. There was a lot of trial and error, looking for just the right tobaccos and the right toppings to make a faithful recreation. Sutliff would search for and order specialty tobaccos just to meet the needs of certain labels, like Seattle Pipe Club. They didn't just go "aisle 7".

And nobody ever said that Sutliff made 42,000 versions of essentially the same blend, just with micro adjustments, and different labels, as has been said about C&D.
 
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cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,906
85,290
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
That's a gross mischaracterization.
If you had read more carefully, You would have noticed that I did say that they do much more than than pouring goop. But, just that goop was mostly what they were known for.
And nobody ever said that Sutliff made 42,000 versions of essentially the same blend, just with micro adjustments, and different labels, as has been said about C&D.
I think you are just angry and taking a swipe at C&D thinking that it will hurt me in some way?
 
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cosmicfolklore

Moderator
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Aug 9, 2013
35,906
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I really want to like a C&D blend , but the 6 or 7 I've purchased all taste very similar .
I have no idea which ones that you tried, but some blenders just aren't for everyone. I couldn't stand most of the Sutliff stuff. Maybe you just don't like the way C&D prepares their tobaccos. Maybe look at PS or STG's stuff.

For me, if C&D closed and if I didn't already have more tobacco than I could smoke in this lifetime, I would just quit. Or, try cigars.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,715
53,352
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
If you had read more carefully, You would have noticed that I did say that they do much more than than pouring goop. But, just that goop was mostly what they were known for.

I think you are just angry and taking a swipe at C&D thinking that it will hurt me in some way?
Why would I do that? The mischaracterization of Sutliff is about as false as the characterization of C&D. This has nothing to do with your getting hurt.

Also, I'm hardly the only one who has made that characterization about C&D.

As for being known merely as goopers, yeah that was the perception because their Sutliff branded tins were mainly goopers, and the people who were characterizing the entire company by those goopers were ignorant. They were completely ignorant about the wide range of Sutliff's activities. We've moved past that ignorance.
 
Jan 30, 2020
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New Jersey
I really want to like a C&D blend , but the 6 or 7 I've purchased all taste very similar .
What do you usually smoke?

I started out kind of avoiding them because of the online perception in certain crowds at the time of them being crap or young or name your reason.

Since then, they’ve become 90% or more of what I buy. If HU Indaba hadn’t recently started to be imported, they’d be all that I buy.
 

NookersTheCat

Can't Leave
Sep 10, 2020
358
1,283
NEPA
I really want to like a C&D blend , but the 6 or 7 I've purchased all taste very similar .
This is my experience as well. Imo they have a few standouts like autumn evening, pirate kake, their deer tongue blends or especially *some* of their small batches...

But whenever I look at most of their blends I just see 350 that are "a (dry-ass) mix of Virginia, burley, and perique" then another 275 that are "a (dry-ass) mix of Virginia, burley, and perique.. but with an almost non-existent topping that will fade the moment flame touches the leaf" lol

But ofc, different strokes for different folks.
 

cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,906
85,290
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
Why would I do that? The mischaracterization of Sutliff is about as false as the characterization of C&D. This has nothing to do with your getting hurt.

Also, I'm hardly the only one who has made that characterization about C&D.

As for being known merely as goopers, yeah that was the perception because their Sutliff branded tins were mainly goopers, and the people who were characterizing the entire company by those goopers were ignorant. They were completely ignorant about the wide range of Sutliff's activities. We've moved past that ignorance.

It's kind of weird to me that some take it as their personal responsibility to defend this dead company.
Look, the company is dead, and every little criticism of Sutliff over the years has triggered the same three people who ride to their defence. I get it, you really like this company. The tins are/were the company's main product. But, almost everythng they made had their signature casing in it. Sure, most smokers probably never noticed it. But, I didn't like it, and everytime I or one of hundreds of other posters said so on here, they get called ignorant.
They are dead now, so let it rest. Some people hated McClellands, and you bring that up everytime it gets mentioned.

You are obviously going through some grief. These are all just businesses. I could care less what people say about C&D. Mischaracterize them all you want. I never step up and try to explain away why they have 1 million blends that taste the same. Some people hate C&D, and I pretty much let them.

But, if someone would like some help selecting a blend from them, if it is in an area that I can help, I will. But, I am not about to go around trying to talk people into liking them. That is just weird to me.

I think the problem comes when people don't read the words; almost, most, and all of the other words that make my statements less heavy handed than you are accusing me of.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,715
53,352
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
It's kind of weird to me that some take it as their personal responsibility to defend this dead company.
Or to disparage it.
Look, the company is dead, and every little criticism of Sutliff over the years has triggered the same three people who ride to their defence.
It's more than three, but one of them is jiminks, who knows quite a bit about Sutliff.
You are obviously going through some grief.
You are kidding, right? It's a business, not my dog.
think the problem comes when people don't read the words; almost, most, and all of the other words that make my statements less heavy handed than you are accusing me of.
So let's repeat the statement that you made and please point out how I misunderstood it, because it sure looks like it says that "gooping of the leaf was their main job", if not "pour toppings onto already processed leaf. That was about it... and tin them.". So please help me understand you I misunderstood this.
Sutliff couldn't even make flakes. They had to commission STG to do that. The majority of what Sutliff did was pour toppings onto already processed leaf. That was about it... and tin them. I'm not sure what science you are referring to.

For years on here, we've had three members who would always say, "Sutliff processes tobaccos for other companies." Yes, they poured goop onto tobacco for other companies. I'm sure they may have done other stuff also, but gooping the leaf was sort of their main job.
 

dd57chevy

Can't Leave
Apr 7, 2023
493
1,466
Iowa
What do you usually smoke?

I started out kind of avoiding them because of the online perception in certain crowds at the time of them being crap or young or name your reason.

Since then, they’ve become 90% or more of what I buy. If HU Indaba hadn’t recently started to be imported, they’d be all that I buy.
I had a 4 blend rotation . EGR , Carter Hall , & then either Cult or Stanwell Vanilla for a sweet change up .

I've beaten this into the ground to the point of pedantic whining , but I cant find a satisfying replacement for EGR . Not identical , but anything enjoyable !

I bought Sea Dog , Awakened Elder , 5 O'clock Shadow , Americana , Black Duck & Captain Earle's Reflections .
They all have what I would describe as a charcoal taste..........
 
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Homer

Can't Leave
Aug 7, 2020
388
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Finland
I don't think C&D is "merely" a boutique blender. They are now exporting many blends to Europe.
And, I don't think Sutliff was much of anything on Tobacco Row. C&D has been a much larger operation than Sutliff for a while now.
C&D tobacco in Germany is almost 100% more expensive than in USA. In EU the tobacco price is usually fixed and there are no discounts.
 
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The Libertine

Can't Leave
Jul 19, 2024
403
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NYC
I liked a few sutliff blends. Mark Twain and Heavy English were my two favorite bulk blends of theirs. Now that Sutliff is DOA, there isn't anything to really argue about.
 

cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,906
85,290
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
I liked a few sutliff blends. Mark Twain and Heavy English were my two favorite bulk blends of theirs. Now that Sutliff is DOA, there isn't anything to really argue about.
I liked a few too. But, they did have that signiture flavor added. I was not as enamored with their one flake as others were. It makes sense to me that it is the exact same thing as LNF, because it wasn't a favorite of mine either.


OK Jesse, I said " The majority of what Sutliff did was pour toppings."
@sablebrush52 enlighten me on how wrong I am. Or STFU ha ha
 
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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
17,222
32,331
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In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
I have no idea which ones that you tried, but some blenders just aren't for everyone. I couldn't stand most of the Sutliff stuff. Maybe you just don't like the way C&D prepares their tobaccos. Maybe look at PS or STG's stuff.

For me, if C&D closed and if I didn't already have more tobacco than I could smoke in this lifetime, I would just quit. Or, try cigars.
C&D is my main company hands down. And they don't get credit for how broad their blends really are. Even their aromatics tend to have at least a solid hint of real tobacco in the profile. As in can still comment on the leaf they use and what type of leaf they use. (a lot of aros I know it's burly because of it's ability to absorb and be overwhelmed by added toppings. In C&D aros I've tried I can tell what type of burly it used (not the name but what flavor notes it had before the added aro).