The Value of a Pipe

[unadoptedlamp]

I recently sold a pipe of mine on e-bay and now I'm wondering about how people price pipes. There doesn't seem to be a guide or "blue book value", which I find a little odd, considering how many of them are bought and sold. It should be fairly easy to price pipes in relation to year, general quality, size and shape. I tried looking a bit before I listed, with minimal results, so based what I was willing to accept on what I paid and what a new one would cost.
I will leave out some details, in case the person I sold to is here.
It was a mid-value Dunhill with a few decades of age that I didn't care for anymore. It smoked fine, but the bowl was not my style, so out it goes. I paid about $230 a year ago and sold it for nearly 3 times the value I paid.
The only reason I listed it so high was because I'm a negotiator. I turned down one low-ball offer for around what I paid, expecting to hear back (I would have happily broke even), but got no response. Then, about an hour later, someone came along and paid full price. No haggling, nothing. It seemed outrageous to me, and I had the haggling scene from Python's Life of Brian going on in my head... but the deal was done.
I guess, maybe, somehow this pipe is worth as much as I listed it for, but I can't see it and the little evidence I could find doesn't support it. Other examples don't go near that price and you can buy brand new ones for the same amount!
Somehow, I feel like I didn't get a fair deal out of the transaction. If it sold for $275, that was a solid deal on my part. But it went much higher.
And this is from what looks to be an experienced buyer. They have loads of purchases.
It just seems so completely out of whack. I wonder how often the prices of Dunhill pipes (and similar ones) fluctuate wildly on emotion? Is this common? It is such a weird experience that I'm not even sure what to think of it.

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

Somehow, I feel like I didn't get a fair deal out of the transaction.

So, you paid 230 dollars for it and sold it for three times that much and you don't feel like you got a fair deal?

 

[ssjones]

An interesting discussion, but in the wrong area, moved to "Pipe Talk".

 

[unadoptedlamp]

Yes, I feel like the buyer paid far too much because he/she didn't haggle and it didn't seem like a fair deal... after thinking it over. Just because I gained considerably, it doesn't effect my sense of a good deal.
It then occurred to me that maybe this is happening a lot. People might be paying outrageous prices, and it is tough to get good information for what pipes are worth. Has anyone attempted a buyers guide for pipes?

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

The market sets the price. This is true of most products where the value is more perception than reality.

 

[sablebrush52]

The short answer is that an item is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Perhaps you got a great deal and paid well under the market. I've followed thousands of eBay auctions for more than a decade, looking at what different brands of pipes sell for, and I have a pretty good idea of "normal" prices. But I find that there are always outliers, pipes that go for a fraction of their normal price and pipes that go for multiple times the market price.

Results on eBay depend on several factors. Great presentation is one. If you put up really good pictures, your item is likely to get more favorable attention. Another is the traffic when your item is up for auction. And there are certain times of the year, especially after Christmas or tax season, that are usually bad for sellers. Maybe there are more interested parties looking, who will bid against each other and drive up the final price. And there are buyers who want a particular item at any price and will pay far more than the norm to obtain it.

Haggling isn't as big part of our culture, not like other countries where it is expected that the stated price isn't ever real. And some buyers just don't care about anything other that obtaining the object of their desire.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Gold and silver have a value set by how much it is being traded for by financial institutions. When the economy is good, their prices go down, because banks aren't trading certificates based on the trade value. But, that is not how much someone would actually pay or sell them for in the real world. Gemstones have no real value, except what people will pay. There is no such thing as an inherent $1000 diamond. There are grades and carats, but there is no set value, as they are not commodities. And, the general public not understanding this is why I stopped doing appraisals years ago. Three different jewelers, three different estimates. But, we may all grade them the exact same.

If you read the Blue Book for cars, those are just estimates as well. It's not the Bible.
Pipes are just the same. They are worth what someone is willing to pay, and you will get what you are willing to let it go for. Sure, there are appraisals you can get, and they are also based on the audience the appraiser has in mind. A pipe might go for $1000 if the seller is willing to wait, market, and work for that much money. But, to widen the audience the seller may have to drop the price, depending on what market the seller is capable of reaching. This is why using a third party like Pipestud to sell a pipe is smarter than just starting an ebay auction yourself. He may even not be able to reach the highest price. For that you may have to use an auction house or retailer that has the contacts to people looking for that exact pipe that have the resources to buy it. But, you also give a larger cut to them in the transaction. If they think they can get a thousand, they may only will be willing to give you$700 or maybe even $500 depending on how fast they think it will move.
It's just the way the world works. If it sold as fast as you like, and you made money, then you did good. They may turn around and know a buyer that would pay more, good for them. Big fish eats the smaller fish, but the bigger fish eats the big fish. That's the way the world goes around.

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

Yes, I feel like the buyer paid far too much because he/she didn't haggle and it didn't seem like a fair deal...

Ok. The way you worded it, made it sound like you felt you didn't get a good deal personally out of the transaction when you made a considerable profit. I was thinking... :crazy: No offense meant :mrgreen:

 

[cosmicfolklore]

After rereading the OP, I am not sure exactly what the problem was. He didn't haggle? Well, most Americans don't. We just pay the price tag. My wife will ask for coupons or request a sale price, but I always cringe with embarrassment and tell her, "people will think we are poor."

If I am being asked to set my buying price, as in someone comes into my store or studio (or I go to them) and have to give what I willing pay, I will do so. And, if that is not good enough, I walk away. I don't haggle (period). Respect my price point, because it is usually however much I have in my pocket, like I said, I don't try to undercut, I just make my offer, and if not good enough, that's perfectly fine. I have other things to do. If someone wants to drive me up, or pull a hard sell on me, then I am insulted and there is no way in Hell I would give you as dime. That's just me.
My father always said, "always leave a little salt on the bread," which means either pay a tad more than you think (or negotiated) the person could get for the item (thus, why I am insulted by hagglers), or to give a little more if I am selling. If the person feels like they got a good deal, they are more likely to do business again. I will sometimes include a little something extra, or pay a little more than I said, not always the same amount, but just enough to salt the deal.
But, if someone walks away from my price or my offer, I take no hard feelings. I can respect that. It is the discretion of the other party as to whether they will accept the offer. If they feel insulted by my offer or my price and get angry, well, that's their prerogative as well. Maybe next time they will get the deal they want. No sweat.
THE WORST people to do business with are tire kickers. I hate these SOB's with every inch of my being. Someone who listens to my offer that has taken into consideration all of the defects and anomalies, and I will point these out, unless it is completely obvious, like "it is a pipe with no stem, or a ring with no stone, ha ha." But, if someone wants me to listen to a critique of the item while they demand a lower price, well... I will graciously show them the door.
I do this because I am fair. I don't hold a grudge, and if the deal is not made, maybe next time we will come to a better common ground.

 

[joeman]

"The only reason I listed it so high was because I'm a negotiator."

It's clear that the reason you weren't so happy with the transaction was because the buyer did not haggle with you in any way. You're clearly "wired" for the haggle dance, and I believe there is a good lesson here, related to this whole selling and buying gig. There are those whose personality, experience and skills lend themselves to selling & negotiating. My father in law...while he's never held a sales position...is one of them. If you're selling a tool in your garage sale, he's going to haggle with you over it...unless your price is already more than fair. And if you do a really good job in haggling with him over his price at his garage sale...he just may let you get your item for less. But in both cases...he does want to buy...and he does want to sell. He may appear to be a tire kicker when he makes his case and his offer, but then walks away when the other party is unwilling to haggle...but he's definitely ready to buy...but not without some haggling when he believes it's appropriate.
I'm not wired like him in that way...and it's why I would never make a good company salesman who carries a bag and a quota...and nor am I very good at trying to whittle someone's price lower than what they're asking, particularly when I believe their price is already fair enough. So unadoptedlamp, it may well be that your buyer simply LOVED the Dunhill you sold...and didn't have it in him to reach out to ask if your price was negotiable; it might've been worth the money to him to NOT haggle...because for those who are not wired that way...haggling back and forth is a bit of a pain.
One question for you. Your item was obviously a buy-it-now. Did you have the 'make offer' feature turned on?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I just hope this haggling things dies away with the horse traders. To me it's not a game, it's not happy fun time, or a pissing contest. If you want it "this much moneys worth" then we have a deal. If not, there are other fish in the sea.

 

[unadoptedlamp]

It's been great to hear a range of opinions on this -some spirited ones as well- and it is clear that there are different camps.
I use my judgement in negotiating. Used items -almost always- because somebody's sensibility of what they think is fair and what I think is fair leaves an obvious grey area of where the true price is. Unless, of course, it is their opinion that they are a master appraiser and it is considered abhorrent that someone would question that. I have come across those types before, albeit rarely, which is also fine. I don't usually make deals with them unless the price is correct and that doesn't happen often because there aren't so many master appraisers out there.
For me, it isn't a small thing. In a very conservative estimate, I've saved hundreds of thousands of dollars in negotiations over the years on private items. To me, that's money I want in my pocket. In business... well, I just can't imagine not negotiating. It seems so foreign to me. It is hard to imagine a company keeping someone around who just pays "sticker price" on things. I don't view my personal business finances any differently than I would the finances from a business I am working with to make a good deal.
I think it is place appropriate.
A used store - absolutely

Business - Can you even keep a job without being a good negotiator?

The lineup at the grocer - not so much

A house - I will fall off my chair if people come forward and claim they've paid asking price for a house without flinching (but now I'm wiling to believe it happens)

I've even negotiated for the people I'm buying from (rarely), like for instance when I was buying some art and the artist offered to kick in a discount if I bought 2 pieces. I refused and paid full price because it wasn't fair to them.
In my case, I had the "buy it now" and "make an offer" selected. I had previously sold a pipe for very little, listing another Dunhill at whatever the lowest starting bid was, and someone got a fantastic deal. Which is good for them. But this time, I thought let's use the negotiating feature and see what comes of it. You can offer/counter offer up to 3 times! To me, it's worth a quick message if it's going to mean a price difference of a few hundred bucks. To some others... well, some comments here and my experience are shedding light on it. It's interesting to me.
Sablebrush- It could be that I got a good deal. I bought it in Germany, where perhaps, there was a different market condition for some reason. Who knows?
Maybe it is becoming a lost skill. I'm curious if there is any correlation between the average (massive!) debt load and people's unwillingness to negotiate out of a fear of being viewed as poor. To me, it has nothing to do with perceptions of wealth, but rather, reaching the true price.
I guess the next time, I'll filter my sale through Sablebrush's experience, since he's not written it down! That could be an interesting business, maybe, for people to get a good idea of the value of things.

 

[seacaptain]

That pipe had some pretty unique birdseye grain. It's probably worth what he paid, maybe more.

 

[warren]

I'm with "cosmic" on this subject. If the price is reasonable, a subjective position of course, I'll consider a purchase. If it's high? I'm passing by.
When I buy a car, I ask for the best, possible price immediately, my aversion to haggling is well known at the dealer. If it's in the ball park, I ask what they'll give for the trade-in. Then, just before inking the contract, I go for the freebies I know are available, two extra keys, custom floor mats, a ball cap, coffee cup, jacket, etc. If the stars align, I'll drive off in a new car. I am not averse to the vendor making a profit. I do not buy from a dealer who pays his sales staff by percentage of profit.
Haggle for a new or used pipe? Never! It's not a skill in my opinion. Haggling is time poorly wasted. I simply do not have the time left to play games with the vendor of anything. Nor do I want to be in an adversarial relationship with a dealer or the sales force. I want a decent price for me and a fair profit for them. Again, it is all subjective on my part.

 

[tbradsim1]

I'm like Cosmic, hate tire kickers. When I sell something , which is really rare because I keep most of my stuff, I first tell them the defects, one man commented you are the first man that sells something to me that first says this is all what's wrong with it. You lowball me when I have fairly priced something, I tell you to hit the road. Had a used utility trailer in my pasture, Had entertained selling it for 100$, young man had stopped and inquired about it , left. A few months later we flooded, my Cajun home is on a hill, high and dry, same young man with wife comes dirty from his welding job, pulls small bills and says 80$ is all I've got. I saw my son in him, pushing away his hand I said keep your money and take it, wife hugs me whimpering a little I tell her Godamn you gonna make me cry. He hooked up and was gone. Lives nearby, honks at me when I'm topping pasture. A good deal sometimes don't include money. ::

 

[cigrmaster]

I spent my entire business life negotiating everything. I was a mfg rep in the jewelry industry, sales manager in the car business, and then owner of my own businesses where I negotiated with vendors all the time.

If I commission a pipe I would never try and negotiate. If I see a make an offer, I will always try to get it for the lowest price. If I see an estate pipe on sites that do consignments, I try and negotiate. I have gotten great deals over the years on ebay and I have seen pipes go for ridiculous numbers, it is a free for all which I enjoy.
Warren, that is the first time I have ever heard of car sales people who don't work on commission. You may be misunderstanding when a sales person says they get a salary. What they get is a draw against their commission if they don't sell enough cars in a single week. Maybe there is a new business model I am not aware of.

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

A good deal sometimes don't include money.

Amen to that, Bradley. I believe you've told that story before. You did a good thing.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My brother-in-law was a car salesman, and they do make salary, but with each sale comes a commission, but the commission is set, so that they get it no matter what the sale is, thus they are not motivated to do anything but meet your needs. They have intentionally worked a lot of the haggle out of car sales, because it is a turn off for the majority of people. Now, it all comes down to which competing bank will handle the financial. With online car sales on the rise and Drivers Way moving cars as fast as WalMart moves toilet paper, they had to do something desperate to get rid of that old horse trader mentality. Now, it is the salesman's responsibility to get you the best deal. And, at any moment you are free to stand up and walk out of the dealership. Believe me, with my last truck purchase a few months ago, I walked out of many dealerships, before I found the one that fit me. Not a haggle one from me. Walking shoes speak louder than anything else.