Sodium Silicate "Water glass"

[tpollock]

I don't want to reopen a big can of worms here! Lol

But I would like to try using the water glass - pumice - charcoal

chamber coating mix to fix some estate pipes I have that have burnouts in them. I have used pipe mud before and have nothing against it. I would just like to try this alternative method. I have sent messages to a couple of pipe makers that I know use it to coat their bowls to find out where I can buy the correct Sodium Silicate that they use for this. Neither has responded to my messages. I have read all the Pros and Cons of this great debate and can see both sides. All I need to know is where can I buy the right Sodium Silicate "Water Glass" that pipe makers use for this type of bowl coating.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

Tim

 

[admin]

Here is a 2-part discussion on it from G. L. Pease
Bowl Coatings - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly - Part I
Bowl Coatings - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly - Part II

 

[tpollock]

Thanks Kevin! I have read that great article a couple of times. Lengthy! Lol. Unfortunately I didn't find any comments made about where the correct type of Sodium Silicate or "Waterglass" was available to buy, or at least which kind is the right one to buy. I know it's offered in powder form or liquid form and the liquid comes in different percentages. I just don't want to waste money buying the wrong stuff. I know some would say I'd be wasting money buying any of it! Lol. I'd at least like to see for myself if I like it for burnout repairs. I also make a few pipes from Cherry wood and it would be interesting to see what effect it has at protecting the wood until the pipe is broke in.

Thanks again Kevin,

Tim

 

[tpollock]

Thanks Roth, I actually read a post last night about it. Not sure if it was by the same member you mentioned or not, but very interesting indeed! I plan to try it as well, but I guess I'm one of those guys that takes nothing for granted without seeing it myself and just like to try different things to see what works best for me. I know many people curse the word waterglass! Lol. But I'd just like to try it out. I've never seen it in person on a pipe so I guess I'm just the curious type. I made custom handmade knives for a few years and even had a knife in Blade Magazine. One thing I learned from my mentor Wayne Goddard was to take nothing for granted! He tested everything!!! Lol. Although I had studied for years, had the best equipment and the equipment needed to tell me I had made a good knife, I still torture tested constantly. My friends would go nuts when I would clamp a nice knife I had made in the bench vise and bend it over 90 degrees to see if the blade would break or crack! Even ran over one with a bulldozer once to test a handle material. I never had a finished knife break! But had I not tested them I would not have had the confidence in them that I needed to have for myself. Thanks for listening to my bla, bla story. Lol

Thanks,

Tim

 

[renfield]

I've gotten sodium silicate at a ceramics supply place. It's used as a sealer or glaze for pottery in that particular application. Much cheaper than buying it at a chemical supply house.
As far as the concentration goes it shouldn't matter much. You only use a few drops and if you can only obtain a lower concentration solution just use an extra drop of silicate. It'll make a wetter mud but it will still dry very quickly. In fact it seems to set up like a cement within minutes.
I've used the silicate as a component of pipe mud (cigar ash + silicate) to build up the bottom of a chamber to get better draft hole geometry and it works extremely well and has proven to be durable. I've tried a couple of the other mud recipes that don't include sodium silicate and had no luck with them. YMMV.
As far as coating the entire bowl I've never done that.
Ren

 

[tpollock]

I understand completely Roth. I hope I haven't offended anyone by my interest in this and I apologize if I have. I just like to study all aspects, but I certainly respect all opinions. I've only been a pipe smoker for 2-3 yrs. so I haven't formed an opinion on a lot of pipe matters yet. My main interest in this would be for drastic repairs and not necessarily to coat a whole bowl with it. I have one pipe in particular that I traded for and accepted the pipe only by seeing a poor photo of it. Big mistake! When I got the pipe in I realized quickly that it was burnt badly about half way down the bowl. The burn is approximately 1/4" wide and goes all the way around the chamber, leaving in one spot a wall thickness of only about 1/8". Rather than cause a stir with the member from this other forum (where I traded for the pipe) I didn't say a word and just kept the pipe. I thought It would be a good one to try some different coatings on since it's not much good the way it is. I appreciate any and all comments as I'm a newbie just eager to learn.

Thanks,

Tim

 

[tpollock]

I've gotten sodium silicate at a ceramics supply place. It's used as a sealer or glaze for pottery in that particular application. Much cheaper than buying it at a chemical supply house.
As far as the concentration goes it shouldn't matter much. You only use a few drops and if you can only obtain a lower concentration solution just use an extra drop of silicate. It'll make a wetter mud but it will still dry very quickly. In fact it seems to set up like a cement within minutes.
I've used the silicate as a component of pipe mud (cigar ash + silicate) to build up the bottom of a chamber to get better draft hole geometry and it works extremely well and has proven to be durable. I've tried a couple of the other mud recipes that don't include sodium silicate and had no luck with them. YMMV.
As far as coating the entire bowl I've never done that.
Ren

Thank you very much for the information and comments Ren. I hadn't thought of mixing it with cigar ash but that's a great idea!

Tim

 

[rebornbriar]

I would look at using the black fire cement for the repair. Concentration of silicate to ash or carbon is too high IMHO and ends up leaving a shiny surface.

 

[tpollock]

Hi Alan, do you mean it takes too much Silicate for the amount of ash used? I haven't seen in person a pipe that has the waterglass coating on it.

 

[tpollock]

Is it a glossy black finish?

 

[rebornbriar]

Yes, that is what it would leave - glossy black and thick. Waterglass will always leave a glossy like finish. It can be used in bowl coatings, but should be used as a couple of drops additive, not as the main mixing component. The fire cement dries to a matt grey with a fine sandy texture - perfect for taking a new cake.

 

[tpollock]

Thanks again Alan! This helps me to understand what all the fuss is about. :lol: You wouldn't happen to know where I can find the post that Roth mentioned about the fireplace mortar (by Bradley's, "The old Cajun's") would you? I thought I had read the one he mentioned but after looking back the one I read was about using fireplace ash.

Thank you,

Tim

 

[auslander]

I haven't offended anyone by my interest in this

I hope you haven't either! If by chance you have then there is something wrong with them, not you.

 

[tpollock]

I hope you haven't either! If by chance you have then there is something wrong with them, not you.

Thank you Sir! I'm new here and just eager to learn as much as I can.

Tim

 

[wayneteipen]

Hello Tim. I have some sodium silicate in liquid form that you can have for the price of shipping if you want. I experimented with it early on but found an all natural bowl coating using gelatin powder, honey, and activated charcoal that I like better. In my experience, sodium silicate is fine for bowl coating and probably offers the best protection against burnout. It doesn't leave a shiny, glass-like finish if it's mixed correctly with the right amount of activated charcoal (which also makes it impossible to be impervious, btw.) In my experiments with sodium silicate, I had issues with it chipping off and found it left an off taste for the first several smokes. The chipping off was due to oils in the tobacco chamber from my fingers. Sodium silicate needs a clean and rough sanded surface to cling to. I used it on a burnout repair once then abandoned it for the recipe I use now. PM me if you're interested.
On another note, make sure to check the MSDS sheet on fireplace mortar before deciding to use it. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but it does have some ingredients that sodium silicate does not have in addition to containing the controversial sodium silicate. It contains kaolin (which is just white clay), calcium metasilicate (a rock mineral found in limestone), Sodium Hydroxide (which is lye), and sodium silicate (waterglass.) My biggest concern with this is the sodium hydroxide. According to the MSDS sheet on it, it says "the substance is toxic to lungs."

 

[tpollock]

Thank you very much Wayne! PM sent. You make some amazing pipe Wayne. I have been admiring them for quite some time now. Beautiful work my friend!!! And thank you for the information and advice. I'm the new guy on the block here, so I appreciate all help and all the friends I can make. I'm eager to learn all that I can about pipes and pipe making!

Thanks again,

Tim

 

[tpollock]

Wayne did you also use pumice in the waterglass mixture or just the activated charcoal? I'm assuming that the amount of charcoal needed is laid out in a scrap container and then enough waterglass is added until the right consistency is reached, or I'm I way off base with this thinking? If you had rather reply by PM I understand as I know that to many here waterglass is totally taboo! :lol:

Thanks,

Tim

 

[ejames]

What did I tell ya Tim??!!

 

[tpollock]

What did I tell ya Tim??!!

As usual you were right on the money Ed. :wink: Been checking out the Morta Pipes the guys here have posted, awesome pipes. I can't wait to see what you come up with on yours! :worship:

 

[igloo]

Has it really come to posting behind the scenes so we don't offend the know it all . I am surprised I was even able to smoke my pipe before the post whores .