Should PipesMagazine.com Start Charging a Subscription Fee?

[admin]

Ok, I admit that my job doesn't suck.
However, contrary to popular belief, I am not independently wealthy. I actually do have to work for a living.
This morning I read something that made me angry, feel hurt, disrespected and robbed.
When I look at the site's stats, one of the things I see are "referrers", which are sites that sent us traffic, such as Google for instance.
I found another pipe smoking forum that was nice enough to link to our video of Cornell & Diehl.
That's great and much appreciated. High quality, exclusive, unique content will get people linking to it.
Here comes the bad part ...
As I read the thread, there were a couple of guys posting that they don't see a video anywhere on the page. It turns out that they were using AD BLOCKER plug-ins on their Firefox Browsers.
That resulted in this post in my blog:
Should PipesMagazine.com Start Charging a Subscription Fee?

 

[flylot]

I dunno, I'm new here and probably shouldn't chime in, but here goes. No, but then, I'm a cheap b*st*rd!

 

[caliguy]

Kevin,
I just commented on your blog. The long and the short of it is that I'd rather not see a charge for this site. I don't see the ads as obtrusive at all and having these advertisers show off their wares is a small price to pay for free access to this wonderful website.

 

[krgulick]

I would like to see you not charge for this site, if possible. I do not mind the ad banners at all, in fact I think they add to the overall content of the site.
I take it that if the ad blocker is on, it will not register as a hit for them. I assume the more hits they get, the bigger check you get. I am guessing on this, so if I am wrong, I do apologize for being ignorant of how those things work. In the article you explain quite well the expenses you incur, perhaps you can explain how the ad blockers deter from your bottom line. That is your call, since you run this excellent site for us on a gratis basis on our end. If I am being out of bounds here, please accept my apologies up front.

 

[puffintuff]

Um, I was gonna ask you if I could borrow $100, but forget about it.

 

[admin]

@puffintuff

:laughat:

Um, I was gonna ask you if I could borrow $100, but forget about it.

@krgulick

I take it that if the ad blocker is on, it will not register as a hit for them. I assume the more hits they get, the bigger check you get. I am guessing on this, so if I am wrong, I do apologize for being ignorant of how those things work. In the article you explain quite well the expenses you incur, perhaps you can explain how the ad blockers deter from your bottom line.

There are different ways that websites charge for advertising. The most common are CPM and CPC, and your assumption fits that model.
However, since we are very unique and dominate a very narrowly targeted niche, we charge a flat monthly fee, the same as a print magazine.
The video ads, on the other hand are on a CPM basis, meaning that we get a certain dollar amount for every 1-thousand impressions.
Ironically, video content is the most expensive to produce, and what we make the least on in ad revenue.
The short, simple answer is that advertisers pay to have their ads seen.
When they pay us, that enables us to keep producing content and running this site.
If the ads aren't being seen, that is like your pipes and tobacco "falling off the back of the truck" on it's way to you, and you still had to pay for it.
Someone stole it. You got robbed.
Some people that think they are oh so clever have robbed our advertisers, (and us) of some the ad impressions they should have received.

 

[expatpipe]

I do not block anything, but I guess I do have an op on this contrary to yours.. Some people block in order to up their security online, others block just because they find it annoying. These same people are not going to be purchasing from blocked advertiser anyway, so why would the company feel offended by not reaching this person? The bottom line is, again in my one mans op, blockers are costing you potential income not the company in question.. which you rightly deserve. Your product = you call the shots. But by suggesting that ad blockers are mistreating the advertisers, thats a stretch in my book.

 

[admin]

But by suggesting that ad blockers are mistreating the advertisers, thats a stretch in my book.

Hmmm ...
Think of it this way ...
Let's pretend that SmokingPipes.com paid $1,000 to P&T Magazine to have their full page ad in it. (I have no clue what they pay. I'm just making that up, but I am guessing it is not far from the truth.)
Now let's pretend that someone grabbed 10% of the P&T Magazines out there and ripped out the SmokingPipes.com ad and then put them back.
Do you think the advertiser got screwed a little bit in that hypothetical example?

 

[expatpipe]

I would whole-heartedly agree if it was "someone". But it is not. Thats why I can not accept that hypohesis. It is individuals making individual choices. If SmokingPipes.com paid P&T magazines 1,000 dollars to have a full page ad in it and afterwards 10 % of P&T readers made an individual choice to rip out SmokingPipes.com advertisement. How have they "robbed" you? You'll have to elaborate on the putting them back on the rack analogy, I don't comprehend how an ad blocker is changing the content of your site for others to later come and see the material as they have. The ad blockers are not the target audience or the target marketing group. I fail to see how an ad blocker is stopping the advertiser from reaching his target group..

 

[bogie]

I honestly think that the advertisers you are talking about, have to take into consideration that people use blockers! It would be ill advised to not take this part into consideration when considering their advertising strategy.
We live in a day and age where EVERYONE is using a computer,and a huge majority of those folks are not PC savy at all! They cant tell when something is being popped up on their screen that could potentially be harmful for their pc. Please take this into consideration as well. Lots of these NON COMPUTER SMART people are forced to do their banking and pay bills online, and all they see on the tv is how people got their identity stolen and their bank accounts emptied by someone getting their information from a website. You and i both know that one way the keylogging programs get into a pc is through the pop ups that folks try to click out of.So around these neck of the woods the pop up blocker is just a means of protection against such hacks not just to get rid of the annoyance factor.
So in my mind with ad blockers being the norm these days, then the people who are purchasing these ads would at the very least take that into consideration, and would incorporate that strategy before purchasing any ad spaces on the web.
By the way....im just a dumb guitar player who lives in the woods and not versed in the businesss side of things on the web lol. Just a bit of my commons sense I suppose.
Bogie

 

[fred]

Many of us frequent other sites in addition to paying yearly subscription

fees for Magazines and other publications. There really is no free lunch.

Our interest in Pipes and Pipe tobaccos brings us together in common pursuit.

We are a distinct minority in the tobacco industry. The level of both content

and service of this site has not been static, but continues to improve. If

a subscription fee is needed to help keep the lights on, then I find no fault

with this. Perhaps it would be good to require a fee for the privilege of

participating in this Forum, along with the ability to publish. When you find

a place that you like to visit, then it's a good idea to help pay the rent,

otherwise the resource will perish.

 

[jship079]

I will have to say that as much as I like your site I for one would not pay if you did put a charge on it unless it was small and you did ALLOT more articles. My primary relationship with this site is its forum and I cant see paying to be involved in a forum. So if you did a actual "magazine" then I would probably pay depending on the quality of the content but as it stands I would have to bow out. As far as the blocking of the ads that is a individuals preference but I would say most people allow the traffic.I think by the way you talk that this site has grown quite a bit over the past several years and the advertisers are growing and happy with the site and its relationship with there sales pertaining to your sites traffic right. So if you dont have tons of people pulling there sponsorship why charge? I would hate to see that happen and think that it would have adverse affects on the popularity of the site.

 

[yachtexplorer]

I use an ad blocker all the time. It is located between my ears. I already was a customer of most of your advertisers and do not resent their presence on your site. I would rather keep using my brain as a filter and have commercial concerns underwrite the content I enjoy.
With apologies to media producers who rely on advertising, I have always figured the more a company advertises, the less value they provide the customer. While not always true, I have found it to be so more often than not. This applies to print, TV and web advertising. If the networks can boost the sound volume during ads, I still have a mute button. With the advent of DVR, how many of us watch our favorite shows and fast forward during the yet more frequent and lengthy ad breaks?
More power to Pipes Magazine if you can keep engaging content coming our way and get the companies that reap profit from our hobby to pay for it.

 

[teamhavoc28]

Maybe I'm in the minority.. I'm not opposed to being charged just keep it competitive with like smoke magazine..a publication I used to subscribe and am suscribing again in the near future. I understand not all forums can be free and don't mind paying for exclusive features online like CA magazine does for it's online features.

 

[searock]

If I am reading the situation correctly, most people come here for the forum. I've never seen a forum that charges a membership fee... there may be one somewhere. With all the other free pipe forums out there and considering the economy and the attitude of people, I think... no, I'm sure, that the charging of a membership fee would spell the end of this forum. People are willing to pay for some things, but not something they can get for free. You should make your money off the ads. If you charged a fee to be a member the number of members would drop like a rock and then the number of advertisers would dry up, then... the end.

 

[duncan]

Kevin you gotta do what you gotta do. I understand your frustration and see your point. I also understand other frustrations and see there points also. If people do not like the ads then offer an ad free subscription. Charge some insane amount and when they cry let them know without the ads someone has to pay for it all. Now I am sure I will get some flak saying thats not fair or that just wrong. In the end why would anyone piss and moan about a fantastic product that cost them nothing to gather the information from. Yep I will deal with the ads and continue to support the advertisers so they support us. SO in a way I do pay a membership, just in a roundabout way.

 

[igloo]

The forum draws the people .the people bring the ads .The ads make you money . Try charging the people and they will leave . If the retailers dont think we buy enough from them perhaps they should lower thier prices or at least give us some specials . Case in point P@C raised there prices so much I have not placed a order with them in some months now . Perhaps the place to put the pop ups is in the forums section . There is just not enough content to draw anyone to the home page . Iam more than happy to link from your page to your clients web sites ,so you can get paid . But I still buy my tobacco from Lil Browns because they are two to three bucks cheaper than anyone else including the shipping costs . How about a Pipes Magazine pipe tool or hat to make money then you have a product you can sell . The concept is called attrition , unless you grow you lose bit by bit every year . The internet is about sales and marketing of course you knew that .

 

[chlogeo3]

"if it aint broke then dont fix it" :wink:

 

[searock]

I just remembered something... I know of another web site, not pipe related, that offers a forum, which is free, and they have a section where you can buy and sell a certain type of unusual items... no, not porn. Anyway, they don't charge any ad fees or commissions. When they started the site they offered memberships free but said from the beginning that they would eventually have to do something to pay for the site. The items this site specializes in are kind of antiques and there doesn't seem to be any companies that would be willing to pay for ads (like pipe and tobacco manufacturers), so they had to get revenue somewhere. Finally, after 18 months in business and with the site grown to where there were several thousand items for sale and about 3,000 members, they started to charge a $20 a year membership. For that the members got unlimited use of the site. They could run as many ads as they wished and buy and sell as much as they wish. Seemed reasonable to me.
I happen to know the owner of this site personally and have discussed the situation with him in depth so I know what I'm saying is correct. When he started charging the membership fee this is what happened. First; all the competative forums were flooded with posts badmouthing his site. I couldn't believe what some people said, calling him everything for greedy to a down right crook. It was like a shark feeding frenzy that grew and grew. I suspect that some of the posts were actually posted by the competative forum administrators themselves. Business competition can be brutal! Second; his membership dropped off to about 15% of what it had been and, after 3 years it has grown very little.
As long as the other pipe forums are free I don't see any way this forum could charge a fee and make it work. I am sure I'm correct in saying that most of the members (nice guys though they be) would just start using the other free forums. I would really hate to see that happen as I am very fond of this forum and the membership.
This site may not make as much money as you wish it would, but it does make money. Put your efforts in to building the membership which can lead to higher advertising rates and make your profits that way. A membership fee is dedinately NOT a good move.

 

[admin]

@bogie

I'm sure you don't think that this site serves malcious content. I see your point that there are a lot of what us webmasters call "bad neighborhoods" on the Internet, so some people wear a bulletproof vest.
What I was asking at the end of my blog post is that when you are a guest in my house that you please take off your bullet proof vest as this is a friendly place and a legitimate website.
@searock

If I am reading the situation correctly, most people come here for the forum.

Slight correction needed there:

Most people that post in the forums come here for the forums.
Please allow me to explain -
While I am immensely pleased with how the forums have grown, the level of activity we have and appreciate all the members that participate, the overall traffic on the site has much more to do with the high quality, unique content we produce.
As a matter of fact, this whole discussion was initiated by someone trying to see the Cornell & Diehl factory tour video.
On average, the traffic level on a daily basis is 5,000 unique visitors.
That's 5,000 different people each day.
Count up how many people post in the forums each day. Maybe 20?
And if you hypothesize that only 10% of people post and the rest read, then the forum traffic is 200 per day.
Or if it's only 1% of people that post and the balance of traffic only reads, then it is 2,000 visits to the forums.
Look on the bottom right of the home page at the Most Popular Articles section and notice how many views different pieces of content have received.
No offense, but if I deleted everything on ther site except the forums, I think 90% of the traffic would disappear and then so would the forums as I would have to get a real job and wouldn't have time for this.