Point of Diminishing Returns
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Being able to buy online for us Canucks, the reverse is true. Our sin taxes up here only feed the wealthy politicians. I can remember airline flights costing triple what they are now. I believe we have more discretionary money now then my parents did.
This kind of discussion has popped up here before. I suppose one could simply look at a pipe as a tool to deliver a guilty pleasure of burning tobacco. Given that, a cob for under $10.00 would suffice.
However, when looking at briars we tend to lean toward other attributes that appeal to us. Some are content with basket pipes for little money while others will easily spend hundreds of dollars for custom pipes.
At what point are there diminishing returns? It's a matter of what one realizes from the total experience.
On a pure economic level I'd posit that anything spent over the price of a cob. On an intrinsic level it is up to the individual piper.
For me, I enjoy my $300 pipes a lot but I also enjoy my cobs and pipes that are much less in cost.
However, when looking at briars we tend to lean toward other attributes that appeal to us. Some are content with basket pipes for little money while others will easily spend hundreds of dollars for custom pipes.
At what point are there diminishing returns? It's a matter of what one realizes from the total experience.
On a pure economic level I'd posit that anything spent over the price of a cob. On an intrinsic level it is up to the individual piper.
For me, I enjoy my $300 pipes a lot but I also enjoy my cobs and pipes that are much less in cost.
When it comes to discussions like this, I always have to wonder if people also look at Corvettes, Lamborghinis, or Mercedes and roll their eyes and say that they aren't worth it?
I know that there are lots of things that I will never be able to afford, neighborhoods that I can't afford, cars, clothes, Heck there are thousand dollar shoes, but for whatever reason we tend to question things like pipes more. Maybe this is because in just briefly looking at a pipe we don't discern whether it is factory made, handmade, artisan made, designer made, etc... Or maybe people just aren't aware of the differences in having one guy making pipes at a workbench from scratch verses CAD driven machines, assembly line production, pre-fab mold made stems, etc...
I know that there are lots of things that I will never be able to afford, neighborhoods that I can't afford, cars, clothes, Heck there are thousand dollar shoes, but for whatever reason we tend to question things like pipes more. Maybe this is because in just briefly looking at a pipe we don't discern whether it is factory made, handmade, artisan made, designer made, etc... Or maybe people just aren't aware of the differences in having one guy making pipes at a workbench from scratch verses CAD driven machines, assembly line production, pre-fab mold made stems, etc...
I was a cigar smoker prior to picking up the pipe recently. Although I just have a few cobs and haven't even stepped up to a nice factory pipe yet, I have spent a lot less money on my pipe tobacco than I was spending on cigars. I'd like to think I would never spend more than 120.00 on a pipe, but you never know.
deuce, I have the same point of view. With cigars, I kinda felt like I should just light a match to a pile of money. Not so with pipes, after smoking I still have something left, a piece of furniture so to say.
I have spent upwards of $200 on pipes and own pipes of higher value. But as said cobs are really all anybody needs.
I have spent upwards of $200 on pipes and own pipes of higher value. But as said cobs are really all anybody needs.
Or, even cigarettes. I was spending close to $350 a month. Now, a couple of tins will last me all month, so I see dropping money on bulk tobacco or buying a $500+ pipe as being way cheaper. This is why it chaps me when pipe smokers bitch about paying $20 for a tin at B&M's. Comparatively, it is the cheapest of all tobacco hobbies, even at the high grade level.
I think my more expensive pipes deliver better smokes. That may well be "all in my head" -- but in what better place could it be? :puffpipe:
This is why the estate and restoration aspect is so important to me. I can get a much higher grade pipe for a much lower cost. When starting out I've really tried to focus on good quality estates, but I've spent more resources (time/money) on tobacco.
But if I'm just throwing out a dollar amount, for me personally I think $150-200 is an average price point where I'd expect to see diminishing returns in smoke-ability. After that I think you are paying for the bells and whistles.
I say the above statement more for playing along with the topic, but I love the fact that some of you guys enjoy $500 pipes and your experiences with them.
I'm equally as happy when someone gets a new MM Cob as I am when some gets a new high end piece.
But if I'm just throwing out a dollar amount, for me personally I think $150-200 is an average price point where I'd expect to see diminishing returns in smoke-ability. After that I think you are paying for the bells and whistles.
I say the above statement more for playing along with the topic, but I love the fact that some of you guys enjoy $500 pipes and your experiences with them.
I'm equally as happy when someone gets a new MM Cob as I am when some gets a new high end piece.
I have better smoking experiences out of the more expensive pipes, but I also enjoy admiring my pipe as a crafted work, even my cobs, so there's that. It is an experiential thing. My very best smoker is an Ascorti Business, under $200, but my Dunhill is close to it. I also have a Savinelli unfinished pipe that cost $50 and it is 3rd. Go figure.
If a person is happy regarding their experience with pipes and tobacco selection then diminishing returns would not exist. They would only exist if a person feels their experience no longer holds as much value above a certain price point of spending. Example a $400 pipe that smokes worse than a $300 pipe
I think it is all a matter of balance. Some folks on Forums have done extremely well and regularly spend
hundreds (or more) on one pipe, by an artisan on commission, or an estate pipe by an historical carver.
Others are also having a wonderful time with pipes but focus on cobs and reasonably priced briars or
Meerschaums. One member discovered four unsmoked Dunhills in a closet that he'd forgotten. The
diminishing returns are in the mind of the beholder, I think. I've just crossed the fifty pipe mark, and
in the past, I've traded off groups of pipes to get one other pipe I wanted. Most of my pipes are low or
medium level. A few are above the $100 mark, one or two well above. I just ordered what I consider a
really interesting well-known brand pipe for about $24. I don't like to have pipes I never smoke, and try
to keep that in mind. You have to take joy in the pipes and tobacco, but parent yourself so all the joy
isn't in purchasing and stockpiling. Balance, balance, balance ... is the operant word here, I think.
hundreds (or more) on one pipe, by an artisan on commission, or an estate pipe by an historical carver.
Others are also having a wonderful time with pipes but focus on cobs and reasonably priced briars or
Meerschaums. One member discovered four unsmoked Dunhills in a closet that he'd forgotten. The
diminishing returns are in the mind of the beholder, I think. I've just crossed the fifty pipe mark, and
in the past, I've traded off groups of pipes to get one other pipe I wanted. Most of my pipes are low or
medium level. A few are above the $100 mark, one or two well above. I just ordered what I consider a
really interesting well-known brand pipe for about $24. I don't like to have pipes I never smoke, and try
to keep that in mind. You have to take joy in the pipes and tobacco, but parent yourself so all the joy
isn't in purchasing and stockpiling. Balance, balance, balance ... is the operant word here, I think.
To be honest, I'm a little perplexed by the question. I'm not sure what we're really measuring here. Because even if you were to find that a $2,000 pipe didn't smoke better than a $200 pipe, the extra money buys a number of things that could enhance the pipe smoker's appreciation for the pipe: Fine grain or supreme-grade briar, an extraordinary level of design/craftsmanship, the unmeasurable satisfaction that comes from owning a one-of-a-kind piece of art, perhaps the irreplaceable memory of meeting a legendary carver in person, etc. etc. None of those things has much to do with the process of moving smoke from bowl to mouth. But that doesn't mean the smoker didn't get his money's worth.
Many of us have sentimental connections with our pipes that have nothing to do with the price we paid for them. You can pay $500 for a pipe that will give a terrific smoke, but maybe you'd sell/trade that pipe long before you'd every consider parting with the no-name pipe that your grandfather handed you the month before he passed away.
Sure, you can think in terms of "diminishing returns" and balance sheets and what-not. But owning a pipe can often involve much more than what can be quantified and measured.
Bob
Many of us have sentimental connections with our pipes that have nothing to do with the price we paid for them. You can pay $500 for a pipe that will give a terrific smoke, but maybe you'd sell/trade that pipe long before you'd every consider parting with the no-name pipe that your grandfather handed you the month before he passed away.
Sure, you can think in terms of "diminishing returns" and balance sheets and what-not. But owning a pipe can often involve much more than what can be quantified and measured.
Bob
I know it is a Subjective question. That's why I asked. Too get an average idea of how people feel about it. Many of you made the comparison to other items that put it in perspective. At some point all things begin to wane in value. That line of demarcation is different for us all. That is why we have the cheap through the ultra expensive. But here the general consensus is between $200 and $500.
as for the car question. I am one who says no too corvettes, and the likes. The reason is simple . I am not into sporty cars. Motorcycles and trucks, and yes there is a price point that marks the diminished return for me there.
as for the car question. I am one who says no too corvettes, and the likes. The reason is simple . I am not into sporty cars. Motorcycles and trucks, and yes there is a price point that marks the diminished return for me there.
A thread that has been worked on several times in the past but worth looking at again
Just to add to what others have written, the estate market helps me with the diminishing return on value. I have yet to buy a new dunhill preferring to purchase either from briar blues or the other sites listed, or possibly eBay if I feel quite sure of its condition
Unlike the possible troubles buying a used car, a well cared for estate pipe from a fine maker will often save me 1/2 the price of new. Naturally, one has to be ok with the fact that it has been 'sucked on' ( sorry) by a unknown other person, but with a full clean out I have no difficulty whatsoever.
This helps quite a lot in my minds eye regarding 'value'
Just to add to what others have written, the estate market helps me with the diminishing return on value. I have yet to buy a new dunhill preferring to purchase either from briar blues or the other sites listed, or possibly eBay if I feel quite sure of its condition
Unlike the possible troubles buying a used car, a well cared for estate pipe from a fine maker will often save me 1/2 the price of new. Naturally, one has to be ok with the fact that it has been 'sucked on' ( sorry) by a unknown other person, but with a full clean out I have no difficulty whatsoever.
This helps quite a lot in my minds eye regarding 'value'
Y'all are looking at this the wrong way. It depends highly on your age and income level. The college student or the man with a new family at an entry level position can only afford $$. 40 years later, when he is considering selling the business and has both houses paid off and all kids through college can easily pay $$$$.
When I was married in 1992, a cob and a tin would have hurt the budget. Now, I could buy a Dunhill if I decided to.
Winton
When I was married in 1992, a cob and a tin would have hurt the budget. Now, I could buy a Dunhill if I decided to.
Winton
I have 50+ pipes in my collection. They range from $5 MM Cobs, to $400 briars. I have some cheap $35-$50 pipes that are on par with my $250+ pipes. That said, I have some $50 pipe that can't hang with an MM Hardwood.
It all boils down to what you think your pipe is worth. If you feel that $1000 for a given pipe is money well spent, then it is....for you. If you feel that $50 is way to damn much to pay for for a pipe, then it is......for you.
Myself, I consider anything over $200 to be a fairly high end pipe. I don't own enough pipes in that price range to make a fair assessment of their value over pipes costing half as much. But I will say, the few pipes I have in that price range, smoke pretty damn good!
It all boils down to what you think your pipe is worth. If you feel that $1000 for a given pipe is money well spent, then it is....for you. If you feel that $50 is way to damn much to pay for for a pipe, then it is......for you.
Myself, I consider anything over $200 to be a fairly high end pipe. I don't own enough pipes in that price range to make a fair assessment of their value over pipes costing half as much. But I will say, the few pipes I have in that price range, smoke pretty damn good!
I personally have never spent more than $125 on a pipe. I probably wouldn't in the future, neither. I like system pipes of one form or other, as when I see the gunk they collect, I am glad it is not consumed. There are only 2 pipes at this point I would like to own and both are under 100. A Peterson 314 and a Peterson 31. Maybe another Falcon bowl.
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